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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 10
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 114 53.52%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 48 22.54%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 25 11.74%
7 out of 10 : Good... 10 4.69%
6 out of 10 : Average... 7 3.29%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.47%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 1.41%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.47%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 4 1.88%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-11, 16:15   Link #481
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
The key point is that they're in a committed romantic relationship that, in the world of SAO, is called marriage. As was already pointed out, in this sort of death game it's a profound sign of trust (since you share all items/money/inventory, so you're trusting your partner with everything), but it is still different than real-life marriage.
As a person who just got engaged not too long ago -- and has heard all the wisecracks about marriage (and is personally against the idea of marriage, but .. well it's important to "her" ..) I'd insert my own inane comment and say:

"Marriage in SAO seems like it's an even bigger deal than it is in real life!"

In all seriousness though, I'm also in the 50 / 50 camp. The pacing of the anime feels a tad rushed with the relationship development, but admittedly the last few episodes have attempted to get the idea across that their feelings for each other have been building slowly and have sort of "come to a head" due to the recent crises .. "suspension bridge effect" anyone? I mean we all have to admit the melodrama is to be expected.. none of us thinks it'll portray a "truly" realistic version of love in an "all-ages" anime right?
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Old 2012-09-11, 16:32   Link #482
Irenicus
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I see the marriage proposal as more of them officiating their relationship rather than a life time devotion to anything. Kirito only pledged to getting her out of the game with all his abilities. They haven't even mentioned meeting in real life yet, or anything like that.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't think it's necessary, because they have the whole rest of the show to develop that part of their relationship. Marriage in SAO just means they're sharing their items and inventory. It's an important symbolic gesture, sure (one that was carefully foreshadowed), but he was no less committed when he said "My life is yours, Asuna", nor was she when she said "I'll protect you forever". In fact, he could have "proposed" right then and there and the effect would have been basically the same. This is just basically putting a name to their commitment.
I think you both are misreading me if you believe I thought they're literal equivalents or that the marriage thing itself was the key part of why I felt what I felt. My problem was that the scenes in her house, romance, proposal, and all, scenes with a very sweet romantic mood, came right after another dramatic moment where a very different mood was being conveyed. We were in "Kirito near death, Asuna to the rescue" and "Kirito killed a (villainous) fellow guild member, Asuna in tears" territory right before we got into lovely dinner, underwear princess kind of territory. They're heavily linked, yes, but some kind of transition needed to be there, long or short, so the audience -- me -- can slow down and shift gears.
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Old 2012-09-11, 16:43   Link #483
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
We were in "Kirito near death, Asuna to the rescue" and "Kirito killed a (villainous) fellow guild member, Asuna in tears" territory right before we got into lovely dinner, underwear princess kind of territory. They're heavily linked, yes, but some kind of transition needed to be there, long or short, so the audience -- me -- can slow down and shift gears.
I don't know... I think it was probably sudden to Kirito too, hence his surprised reaction to Asuna's action. It's obviously something she was more prepared for than he was. Too much transition, and you lose the element of surprise from Kirito's point of view.

*shrug* In the end, it didn't really bother me, I guess. I thought it made sense in the context of the story as presented and made for a nice way to close off this three-episode arc.
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Old 2012-09-11, 16:47   Link #484
Arya
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Shouldn't there also be a consideration that marriage in the game isn't like marriage in real life . Yeah there's a hyperrealistic aspect to this game that has been made very apparent, but there are still inadequacies to game (Like the process of cooking food being boring). It's just not quite the same, despite how immersive it is.

I see the marriage proposal as more of them officiating their relationship rather than a life time devotion to anything. Kirito only pledged to getting her out of the game with all his abilities. They haven't even mentioned meeting in real life yet, or anything like that.
I don't know if it is not a life time devotion. From a practical point of view it is, and more than your usual marriage . Kirito almost died twice for Asuna and they could die tomorrow.
And I can understand why Kirito didn't mention meeting each other in real life, or Asuna, because it is not something they should speak of. I mean, they haven't any certainty of living through the game. So his "wedding vow" to her was the most romantic he could have done, but even the most concrete, given their situation. The one he was sure he could fulfill.
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Old 2012-09-11, 17:56   Link #485
king12354
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I don't usually notice these things but the acting was sub par as well as were the lines. The romance doesn't seem very compelling to me because it's hard to pinpoint where they actually started to develop feelings for one another because all their time together seems so fabricated.

We don't see Kirito go to the frontlines that often that when he says he's taking a break, it sounds like that's what he's being doing all along, always playing at lower level floors or being this nice fellow.
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Old 2012-09-11, 18:03   Link #486
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Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
I don't usually notice these things but the acting was sub par as well as were the lines. The romance doesn't seem very compelling to me because it's hard to pinpoint where they actually started to develop feelings for one another.
Yeah, but my guess... it started in the "Murder case"... remember the funny pointing him the knife scene and the falling sandwich.. ? I believe the chemistry was already in reaction there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
We don't see Kirito go to the frontlines that often that when he says he's taking a break, it sounds like that's what he's being doing all along, always playing at lower level floors or being this nice fellow.
True again! Maybe they have no time to show it.. or... they may prefer to show more of Kirito's interaction with other players to show more of his character development together with the other characters.
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Old 2012-09-11, 18:36   Link #487
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
True again! Maybe they have no time to show it.. or... they may prefer to show more of Kirito's interaction with other players to show more of his character development together with the other characters.
I think this is one of the best actions they took into the anime. Kirito, despite being a Beater, and being hated by almost everyone, going solo, still helps people in need, even if he is one of the Front Liners, and even doing this kind of stuff, he still has one of the highest levels, this only shows him being a friendly guy who doesn't care about power and helps people in need, while being one of the clearers. Though he could be helping them because he wants to redeem himself, because he thinks he killed Sachi and her friends, I don't think this way, but it might have been one of the reasons.
I actually prefer this type of Main Characters, who are able to protect themselves and other people. I hate when a Main Character doesn't really do much to help, and is only there to show him being someone who's scared of everything...though some times it's because of a terrifying past, in this case, it's understandable - still annoying though.
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Old 2012-09-11, 18:52   Link #488
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I think you both are misreading me if you believe I thought they're literal equivalents or that the marriage thing itself was the key part of why I felt what I felt. My problem was that the scenes in her house, romance, proposal, and all, scenes with a very sweet romantic mood, came right after another dramatic moment where a very different mood was being conveyed. We were in "Kirito near death, Asuna to the rescue" and "Kirito killed a (villainous) fellow guild member, Asuna in tears" territory right before we got into lovely dinner, underwear princess kind of territory. They're heavily linked, yes, but some kind of transition needed to be there, long or short, so the audience -- me -- can slow down and shift gears.
To be clear here, I wasn't necessarily referring to you. I was beating up an invisible straw man .

Yeah I don't know about what you're saying though. Isn't the mood built simply by the fact that they were so relieved and grateful to have each other still after this life and death situation? After making it through such hardship they grew closer together in an almost Stockholm syndrome sort of way. It's a form of traumatic bonding. Kirito especially was seeking emotional comfort.

The punch scene after the dinner probably thew people off a little bit, but other than that I can't see a real reason why it doesn't connect and flow properly.

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Originally Posted by Arya View Post
I don't know if it is not a life time devotion. From a practical point of view it is, and more than your usual marriage . Kirito almost died twice for Asuna and they could die tomorrow.
And I can understand why Kirito didn't mention meeting each other in real life, or Asuna, because it is not something they should speak of. I mean, they haven't any certainty of living through the game. So his "wedding vow" to her was the most romantic he could have done, but even the most concrete, given their situation. The one he was sure he could fulfill.
Well you would hope couples who get married in the RL would be willing to sacrifice for each other . But I digress, it definitely is an important symbolic step in their relation as Relentless was saying. The only thing I was trying to point out is I don't think it is the equivalent of marriage in the real world for many reasons.
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:09   Link #489
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After making it through such hardship they grew closer together in an almost Stockholm syndrome sort of way. It's a form of traumatic bonding. Kirito especially was seeking emotional comfort.

The punch scene after the dinner probably thew people off a little bit, but other than that I can't see a real reason why it doesn't connect and flow properly.
Regarding that "punch scene"... I know some people don't like that trope (and whether the actual punch was needed or not notwithstanding), but I actually kind of think it served an important purpose in breaking the tension and showing that they were still being "themselves" after the trauma you described. If they just go straight from near-death to dinner and... after-dinner activities... it really is like they were just scared on some level. But this manages to break the ice, and make them approach it from a fresh perspective. They're in this not just because they're afraid of dying, but because they love each other, so that's important.

So yeah, this is sort of a tangential point, I guess, but oft-hated trope notwithstanding, I think even that was an important part of the flow of events.
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:13   Link #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Regarding that "punch scene"... I know some people don't like that trope (and whether the actual punch was needed or not notwithstanding), but I actually kind of think it served an important purpose in breaking the tension and showing that they were still being "themselves" after the trauma you described. If they just go straight from near-death to dinner and... after-dinner activities... it really is like they were just scared on some level. But this manages to break the ice, and make them approach it from a fresh perspective. They're in this not just because they're afraid of dying, but because they love each other, so that's important.

So yeah, this is sort of a tangential point, I guess, but oft-hated trope notwithstanding, I think even that was an important part of the flow of events.
Hmm.. guess the "proposal" and "night action" serves as an outlet for that traumatizing event...?
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:29   Link #491
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Hmm.. guess the "proposal" and "night action" serves as an outlet for that traumatizing event...?
Well, what I was getting at is that the punch scene helps show that it wasn't just that -- it's something they both wanted of their own will as well. But I'm sure it definitely helped convince them that, as I said before, there's no time like the present.
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:34   Link #492
FlameSparkZ
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Originally Posted by outlaw97 View Post
The author for SAO tweeted during the episode's broadcast, anyone want to take a stab at translating them for maybe some...insight?

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-11742.html
In case someone's curious, in Kawahara's tweets of ep 10:

Spoiler for Information's from the author's tweets about Episode 10:
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-11 at 19:36. Reason: Added spoiler tags for supplemental information
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:40   Link #493
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
I don't usually notice these things but the acting was sub par as well as were the lines. The romance doesn't seem very compelling to me because it's hard to pinpoint where they actually started to develop feelings for one another because all their time together seems so fabricated.
I didn't notice anything wrong with the VO, but romance isn't doing anything for me either. The pacing and transition mostly to blame and it is making it seem like Kirito and Asuna are becoming a couple because the author wants it rather than it develop naturally. It just feels a tad too fast.
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:40   Link #494
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Originally Posted by FlameSparkZ View Post
Spoiler for Information's from the author's tweets about Episode 10:
Spoiler for Reply to author information:

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-09-11 at 19:57. Reason: Fix spoiler tag in quote & left reply in tags
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:43   Link #495
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Regarding that "punch scene"... I know some people don't like that trope (and whether the actual punch was needed or not notwithstanding), but I actually kind of think it served an important purpose in breaking the tension and showing that they were still being "themselves" after the trauma you described. If they just go straight from near-death to dinner and... after-dinner activities... it really is like they were just scared on some level. But this manages to break the ice, and make them approach it from a fresh perspective. They're in this not just because they're afraid of dying, but because they love each other, so that's important.

So yeah, this is sort of a tangential point, I guess, but oft-hated trope notwithstanding, I think even that was an important part of the flow of events.
I see the intent of this scene as well, but I am guessing people didn't buy the tension breaking since they expected the serious tone to carry throughout the end. Of course yvmv, and in at least my perspective I thought it accomplished what you said.

No matter how serious the times are people will still laugh and smile. They'll enjoy meals together. That's just how human beings are, we adapt. I would think the way Sword Art Online has been portrayed so far, that despite the grim setup has actively portrayed a sort of normal life for these people in the game as they adjusted to the world completely would have sufficed to drive home this idea.
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Old 2012-09-11, 19:59   Link #496
king12354
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Yeah, but my guess... it started in the "Murder case"... remember the funny pointing him the knife scene and the falling sandwich.. ? I believe the chemistry was already in reaction there...



True again! Maybe they have no time to show it.. or... they may prefer to show more of Kirito's interaction with other players to show more of his character development together with the other characters.
The "chemistry" point is moot so I'll skip it.

But what is this character development you are speaking of? From the getgo, Kirito was this mysterious, powerful, yet nice guy. The show doesn't really explain why he is powerful either, just indirectly through being a higher level, being a beater, and picking on baddies. There has been very little character development for Kirito or for any other character for that matter.
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Old 2012-09-11, 20:06   Link #497
Triple_R
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I see the opinion is divided between the shippers and the way-too-fast opinions.

They're actually compatible. I share both. Yay Kirito x Asuna, and, well, it's way too fast.

Triple_R mentioned it in at least a few posts deep somewhere in this thread, and I agree with it -- that the scenes themselves are great, but the transition is just way too fast.

I understand that Kirito and Asuna have had quite a few developments already, that the stage is set, and I was actually smiling half in disbelief and half pleasantly surprised by the anime daring to take it to the next step. But this happened, in running time, less than five minutes after another major event where Kirito for the first time actually killed someone, Asuna blaming herself for it and tearfully begged her leave, their first, trauma-driven kiss, and Kirito confessing "my life is yours" to placate her. My brain was still waiting for all the ramifications for these very important developments (like, uh, reporting to the guildmaster) and was just not, not ready to appreciate the lurve, and therefore what would have been a wonderfully climaxing romantic scene had less than its deserved orgasmic impact. It's like a Shakespearean play: you need a bit of lollygagging and bantering and other things happening between the important events that conclude each Act.

This really should have been two episodes.
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Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I think you both are misreading me if you believe I thought they're literal equivalents or that the marriage thing itself was the key part of why I felt what I felt. My problem was that the scenes in her house, romance, proposal, and all, scenes with a very sweet romantic mood, came right after another dramatic moment where a very different mood was being conveyed. We were in "Kirito near death, Asuna to the rescue" and "Kirito killed a (villainous) fellow guild member, Asuna in tears" territory right before we got into lovely dinner, underwear princess kind of territory. They're heavily linked, yes, but some kind of transition needed to be there, long or short, so the audience -- me -- can slow down and shift gears.
I completely agree. Two excellent posts.

I definitely think it would have been better if the events of this episode were spread out over two episodes instead of one. One thing I'll add is that I think the one-episode approach has greatly lessened the impact of rather important events (the duel, and Kirito's first experience in killing a man). Their impact has been lessened because they've become greatly overshadowed by the romance, as discussions on this thread makes clear. These events are really getting shortchanged, imo, in the minds of viewers because of all the shipping focus. This would not be the case if most of the romantic scenes had been left for next episode.


On the topic of the punch, I honestly have to say that I don't get at all where relentlessflame is coming from on that. Asuna and Kirito are only being themselves if she's punching him? That seems like a really weird argument to try to justify the punch to me. There's plenty of great Asuna/Kirito scenes that thankfully don't involve this brand of comedy violence. Are Asuna/Kirito not being themselves in those scenes?

And to Reckoner's point, I wasn't aware that punching people was necessary in order to have laughs and smiles.
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Old 2012-09-11, 20:15   Link #498
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Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
The "chemistry" point is moot so I'll skip it.

But what is this character development you are speaking of? From the getgo, Kirito was this mysterious, powerful, yet nice guy. The show doesn't really explain why he is powerful either, just indirectly through being a higher level, being a beater, and picking on baddies.
I bolded what would have been my answer... What character development am I speaking of? It's simple their character.. no need to complicate it...

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Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
There has been very little character development for Kirito or for any other character for that matter.
This is your opinion... and my opinion is the opposite... It depends on how we look at it...
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Old 2012-09-11, 20:15   Link #499
vyktar
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OK, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to be posting anything spoiler related on this forum but I'll label it before i do so know one read it on accident.

SPOILERS START

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


I have looked way to much into this topic, but it was something that did bug the hell out of me when I watch the episode.

SPOILERS END

All else aside, this was my favorite episode thus far, and I cant wait to see more.
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Old 2012-09-11, 20:21   Link #500
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There's spoiler tags for a reason, you know.
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