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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 10
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 114 53.77%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 48 22.64%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 24 11.32%
7 out of 10 : Good... 10 4.72%
6 out of 10 : Average... 7 3.30%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.47%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 3 1.42%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.47%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 4 1.89%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-09-12, 03:38   Link #521
Dengar
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So am I one of the few people who views the whole "almost dying and killing a person to protect themselves and being all shaken up about it and seeking comfort in eachother and professing their love and the proposal" as one continuous event that is all one and the same?
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Old 2012-09-12, 04:23   Link #522
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I wouldn't quite say that. The so-called "side stories" are puzzle pieces. The issue is that you do not yet know the picture that is being formed, so you could not yet fully see how the puzzle pieces fit. So if you are too quick to rush to a conclusion about what the final picture is or should be, you will be confused by the pieces presented. It's only after some time -- namely starting about now -- that we're starting to see how those puzzle pieces fit. There are a lot of storytelling elements that fly by rather quickly in these latest episodes that depend deeply on the knowledge you gained and the connections formed in those earlier episodes. For example, you wouldn't fully understand the trust involved in SAO's in-game marriage mechanic if not for the powerful illustration of Griselda's murder. You wouldn't relate as well to Kirito's guilt (or why Sachi is such is powerful image in his mind) if you hadn't witnessed the deaths of the Black Cat guild. The significance of Kuradeel's orange (vs. green) cursor wouldn't be as clear if not for Silica's episode. And on and on.

I don't think this show required knowledge of the novels to understand. But I do think it required you to suspend your judgement and just wait and see where they go with things that may not seem to follow logically at that time. I think that's still the case to a certain degree even now, because even more puzzle pieces are doubtless continuing to drop and be fit together by the show.
It's not novel knowledge that's required. It's the novel structure that they broke.
These stories were just back stories meant to explore many aspects that weren't required by the main story.
I am wondering why the writers felt the need to "fix" the timeline, only to make it harder to follow the point they're trying to make.
By the time the Sachi flashback came into the main story, I, in fact, didn't care much at all, because of the whole "super-Kirito" aspect that followed after (which again, was not the main purpose but the presentation made it feel like that was how we should see Kirito).

The only good aspect that came from "fixing" this timeline is presenting Kirito as super-Kirito but Asuna is the only one who sees through this facade, but I don't think it was worth the fix.
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Old 2012-09-12, 04:46   Link #523
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
I am wondering why the writers felt the need to "fix" the timeline, only to make it harder to follow the point they're trying to make.
Because people would be raging more if they simply skipped two years and didn't bother to fill that gap in at all in some way. Throw people into a fatal MMO then time-skip way into the game progression? That's not something a good number of people can handle.


Really don't care what people think the focus was or whatever. Not sure what it is that people want from this show or whether certain other big titles from the last 2 years have too much influence on what they think a show SHOULD be about.

Whatever happened to waiting for the full piece to unfold? Okay, things were a bit slow early but c'mon - we're hitting the meat of the piece now. There are plenty of twists and turns in this tale. Okay, the relationship between Kirito and Asuna has taken more of a focus at present. Okay, what's going on in terms of back in reality, what the creator of SAO wants. So there's been a bit of happiness for the duo amidst the carnage and the cheating death that's happened lately. Forgive me if I'm wrong but it's Episode 10 and there's plenty that can be told in 15 episodes? I didn't find the side stories that distracting - they fill a 2-year time gap, explain what happened between the two during then and what's shaping them now. The episodes are covering main material at a fairly quick pace now, even if it seems like things still are a bit underdone to some. I feel sure Episode 12 will be the one that determines whether people finally get some enlightenment or if they just want to nitpick this title.

That episode was BOSS. I'm still smiling. My reluctant badass and feminista with a big heart are doing great.

On that...

Spoiler for Would they dare...:


Is this show perfect? No, nothing is. Is it doing a good number of things right? For me, yes. Revelations shouldn't come too fast and furious, particularly in a two cour title. I don't know why some people want to read into every single action...I can't help but feel that a certain title from last year is skewing what people think has to be in a show to have impact and be emotive. This show has that - it's not doing it as intensely, is all. I relate to Kirito big time and Asuna is a delightful female.

May Episode 12 give the nitpickers some pause. Can't help but feel this has somehow because the haters target for the 2nd half of 2012 since what's on offer so far didn't get hyped. Maybe once a couple of certain moments happen and Little Busters starts airing, people will be a bit more open. But at least there's not demands for bodycounts every episode in these parts. Some people I know IRL chant for that when they watch SAO - really makes me wonder what people want from this title. If you think you can do it better - go write a title yourself. Kawahara put years into this title. It's a treat to read in literary form and a delight to watch.
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Old 2012-09-12, 05:24   Link #524
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
First of all, this isn't his first time killing someone.
You don't know that. It's the first time we've seen him kill someone on-screen, so it's quite possibly the first time he's killed someone period.


Quote:
Kirito believes himself responsible for killing all the members of the Black Cats guild,
There's a big difference between a person being a bit careless and that possibly causing lives to be lost, and a person killing another person with his own hands.

Saying that Kirito killed the Black Cats guild is silly, as is trying to equate that with how he killed Kuradeel. Kirito perhaps could have prevented the death of the Black Cats guild, but he didn't kill them himself!


Quote:
Even that aside, though, he was clearly shook up by the whole experience, along with Asuna who was blaming herself for the whole thing.
That's not how it came across to all of us. IIRC, Guardian Enzo was the first to raise the question as to why Kirito wasn't more effected and feeling more troubled over killing a man.

This episode is loaded with all of these big events, and they all have very different moods and tones. It would have been better if the narrative had allowed them to breath a bit, imo.

It's like a sports highlight reel where you see all these goals or touchdowns being scored, but it can't take the place of watching the full game because you don't get to see how these important events change the flow of the game. Watching the full game is more compelling because you get a greater sense of the true impact of these highlight moments, but when you're just shown a highlight reel the impact of each highlight moment is lessened.

Kirito being forced into joining a guild again is a big deal (which is why the duel is a big deal - otherwise, it's admittedly just spectacle), or at least it should be a big deal given how much of an emphasis the narrative places on Kirito being a solo player. And yet it looks like it's going to be all over and done within the course of an episode, which wouldn't be so bad if it was the focus of the episode, but it wasn't: It got a few lines of dialogue and a very temporary new look for Kirito. Personally, I would have liked to have seen Kirito interact with new guild members that were going to survive beyond this episode.


Quote:
The entire build-up of this three week arc was to cement their romantic relationship, and ostensibly getting us one step closer to the end of this game. I think you're getting hung up on things that won't really matter in the long run.
My point is that they should matter, for the reason I already brought up, but also since it enriches a narrative when it's key plot points are given time to have significant plot followup.


Quote:

(And as I said before, from a structural perspective, I don't think splitting it into two episodes would have kept the same sense of momentum and flow, particularly when you see these three episodes as an arc. That doesn't necessarily mean that I don't think a little bit more time in the episode couldn't have been put to reasonable use... but I don't think splitting it is a good fix.)
Well, I simply disagree with you on this. I can easily imagine this episode working as two episodes. There's lots of ways that the momentum and flow could have been maintained. Besides, it's not like the momentum and flow was all that great as is - That's one of the main criticisms that some people have made here, that scene transitions in this episode felt disjointed to them.


Quote:
I think you're taking the punch too seriously.
I'm taking it too seriously? You're the one who seems to be arguing that the punch bit is actually indispensable!

All I've said on it, basically, is...

1) I didn't like it.

2) I don't think it's indispensable, so I would have preferred the scene without it.

That's not taking it too seriously, that's just me voicing disagreement with you on the punch and thinking that the scene would have been better off without it. There are other ways you could have shown emotional release for Asuna, and really it's debateable how necessary such an emotional release was anyway. Asuna had a bit of an emotional release right after rescuing Kirito anyway.
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Old 2012-09-12, 05:30   Link #525
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Eh, I think there are lots of "voices of disappointment" simply because there are lots of voices. This is a popular show, and people will check it out to see what all the fuss is about. And each person brings with them their own expectations and requirements, and for some that's heightened when they feel that the show is "over-hyped".

If the show didn't have the balance of elements it has, I'm not sure that I'd like it as much, so I'm glad it is the way it is. That doesn't mean that it's beyond potential improvement... but I do think it's hard to speak too definitively on how things should change until we understand the way everything comes together in the end.
agree with this, there simply is just a lot of people checking it out. kinda makes you remember MSMMadoka and all that circus some time back ^^ fun times
of course nothing can satisfy EVERYONE 100% of the time.
for me i think they're doing pretty well, definitely far better than tons of other animes out there. which is not to say there's no room for improvement.
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Old 2012-09-12, 05:44   Link #526
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Because people would be raging more if they simply skipped two years and didn't bother to fill that gap in at all in some way. Throw people into a fatal MMO then time-skip way into the game progression? That's not something a good number of people can handle.


Really don't care what people think the focus was or whatever. Not sure what it is that people want from this show or whether certain other big titles from the last 2 years have too much influence on what they think a show SHOULD be about.
Are you implying all those novel readers struggled with the time skip?
You'd be mistaken. The whole point of a timeskip is to start off on a (semi)clean slate. This is exactly why some viewers got the wrong impression on Kirito.
I've already had my epiphany. It isn't about what it should be about. It's about what are you trying to tell me?

Yes, my bad for following the elephant in the room. No matter what distraction they tried to make, I couldn't keep my eyes off the elephant.
And yes, my bad for not understanding the focus of the side stories. I'm one of those idiots that need a context to understand what they're trying to drive at.

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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Whatever happened to waiting for the full piece to unfold?
Wait until the full piece unfolds? Funny because the stories appeared fairly self contained, hence led me to believe there wasn't much else to unfold. And there wasn't (Yes, I'm aware not all the side stories have been addressed yet, so now I'm waiting to see what point they were trying to drive at on those).
See this is exactly the mistake viewers make. Trying to bridge the side stories into the main story. The point is NOT to bridge it, otherwise you lead to the dumb arguments like super-Kirito, solo-Kirito, beater-Kirito.

And with some viewers complaining about Asuna-Kirito relationship. Again, a clean slate (time skip) would have worked better.
Introduce Asuna and Kirito as people who know each other within the 2 year time skip can imply they were fairly close to one another.
This would be a lot like a two people introducing themselves as childhood friends. Do you question it? No!
Showing these "key" Asuna-Kirito relationship in these side stories mislead viewers into thinking this is how they develop romantic feelings for one another.
Which again probably isn't the main point of those side stories.
How I now see these events is that the main point of the Asuna-Kirito elements were to explore their views on reality vs virtual reality, their grip on reality and the VR world, and how Kirito saved Asuna from total despair (I say main point, not only point).
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Old 2012-09-12, 06:38   Link #527
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Are you implying all those novel readers struggled with the time skip?
No, I said a good number of people new to the title would. That's not all and I wasn't refering to novel readers. Don't put words into my mouth.

Quote:
You'd be mistaken. The whole point of a timeskip is to start off on a (semi)clean slate. This is exactly why some viewers got the wrong impression on Kirito.
There's very little to base that from. Furthermore, I never found anything to hate about him.

Quote:
I've already had my epiphany. It isn't about what it should be about. It's about what are you trying to tell me?
According to Kawahara - 'This story was the starting point for me, who kept writing with the theme "isn't an online game also another reality?"'


Quote:
Wait until the full piece unfolds? Funny because the stories appeared fairly self contained, hence led me to believe there wasn't much else to unfold.
I think it's already been established some proportion of people will look for more in something than actually is there.


Quote:
See this is exactly the mistake viewers make. Trying to bridge the side stories into the main story. The point is NOT to bridge it, otherwise you lead to the dumb arguments like super-Kirito, solo-Kirito, beater-Kirito.
They weren't that deep, yes. Maybe the time could have been better spent. But they do show Kirito at different points over that time and show some key moments that define him, so I don't consider them a waste. As for your other point, really don't know what would cause that. Kirito is awesome whether solo or guilded. The rest is detail.

Quote:
And with some viewers complaining about Asuna-Kirito relationship. Again, a clean slate (time skip) would have worked better.
That's the upside. The downside is there would be people arguing about what could have happened during those two years. A lot happens in two years. I'd rather a few eps in a linear timeline than get some lengthy flashbacks late in the series. Each approach has pros and cons. Regardless of which one was used, there would still be people arguing. I don't have much issue with either but I know inevitably people will take issue with one of the approaches.

Quote:
Introduce Asuna and Kirito as people who know each other within the 2 year time skip can imply they were fairly close to one another.
This would be a lot like a two people introducing themselves as childhood friends. Do you question it? No!
There's still meaning or context that is lacking with that approach.


Quote:
Showing these "key" Asuna-Kirito relationship in these side stories mislead viewers into thinking this is how they develop romantic feelings for one another.
Which again probably isn't the main point of those side stories.
It's really not that uncommon for viewers or readers to get a different impression or conclusion from what the author/director intends. In their shoes, previous influences and perspectives make sense. Perspective and nurturing can easily make people differ on how they react to the same thing.

Quote:
How I now see these events is that the main point of the Asuna-Kirito elements were to explore their views on reality vs virtual reality, their grip on reality and the VR world, and how Kirito saved Asuna from total despair (I say main point, not only point).
Which is what Kawahara intended. But something that simple can be intangible for some people who are looking for something deeper or more intense.
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Old 2012-09-12, 06:42   Link #528
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So now that Kirito and Asuna are basically going AWOL, I wonder if Heartcliff will decide to pursue them or, leave them be? I doubt those two could hid from him for long, if he really wanted to find them despite what Kirito says. Regardless of what happens imagine there will probably big consequences for Asuna such as demotion since this is the second offense.
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Old 2012-09-12, 06:56   Link #529
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
So am I one of the few people who views the whole "almost dying and killing a person to protect themselves and being all shaken up about it and seeking comfort in eachother and professing their love and the proposal" as one continuous event that is all one and the same?
No, I'm one of them.

The problem with this show is that you need to think a bit and open your mind somewhat. If you're the typical anime viewer raised on "Tell, not show", who expects everything to be spoonfed to you, you're going to miss out on a fair bit of nuance.

*shrug* Then again, I watch Burn Notice, Leverage and White Collar, shows which strongly teach you to be observant in your viewing.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
You don't know that. It's the first time we've seen him kill someone on-screen, so it's quite possibly the first time he's killed someone period.
I actually can't remember if this was actually shown during the adaptation of Murder Case (I've just come back from an outstation business trip), however:
Spoiler for Information from Light Novel version of "A Murder Case in the Area":


Just throwing that out.
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Old 2012-09-12, 07:06   Link #530
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post


I actually can't remember if this was actually shown during the adaptation of Murder Case (I've just come back from an outstation business trip), however:
Spoiler for Information from Light Novel version of "A Murder Case in the Area":


Just throwing that out.
It didn't, LC members barely appeared even for a minute, so as far the adaption is concerned Triple R is right.
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Old 2012-09-12, 07:32   Link #531
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
No, I said a good number of people. That's not all. Don't put words into my mouth.
Apologies for that. Too many people make that argument, I just don't accept many more people would complain about a single time skip versus multiple time skips.
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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
There's very little to base that from. Furthermore, I never found anything to hate about him.
Not hate, surprised Kirito is shown in one way when that was never the point of the story.
What is the logical progression of:
"I will survive this game" -> Solo/beater -> ???
Did you guess 'join a guild'?

What is the logical progression of:
"I will survive this game" -> 2 year time skip-> ???
The answer to this is anything can happen because of the clean slate.

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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
According to Kawahara - 'This story was the starting point for me, who kept writing with the theme "isn't an online game also another reality?"'
Yeah, but the elephant in the room should have been addressed first, which I assume is exactly how the novel was written. I was distracted by the elephant, whereas novel readers had the elephant addressed immediately.

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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
I think it's already been established some proportion of people will look for more in something than actually is there.
Yes, which is why I argued flashback would be better. There is no expectation of a follow up of a side story because you are already aware of the context of the story. Trying to look for more leads to dead ends, "pointless" arguments about why X/Y/Z isn't shown because of what just happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
They weren't that deep, yes. Maybe the time could have been better spent. But they do show Kirito at different points over that time and show some key moments that define him, so I don't consider them a waste. As for your other point, really don't know what would cause that. Kirito is awesome whether solo or guilded. The rest is detail.
It's not an argument whether it's deep or not. It is deep, but only after you know the context of the story, otherwise the direction/emphasis is completely misguided. By the time you're meant to care, the context came too late and you don't care (well, that's how I felt anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
That's the upside. The downside is there would be people arguing about what could have happened during those two years. A lot happens in two years. I'd rather a few eps in a linear timeline than get some lengthy flashbacks late in the series. Each approach has pros and cons. Regardless of which one was used, there would still be people arguing. I don't have much issue with either but I know inevitably people will take issue with one of the approaches.
Can't disagree there, though the approach of 1 time skip is easier to swallow than 4 or 5 disjointed linear time, especially if the point of those stories weren't the ones many people were thinking was the point.

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Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
There's still meaning or context that is lacking with that approach.
Yes, but the point is that the build up of Asuna-Kirito wasn't what the show was trying to get to at all, so the loss is minimal at best. This ep proved how silly it was trying to give too much weight to the whole solo player element, and the "rushed" development of Kirito-Asuna (ie. it wasn't rushed, it was never the point).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Which is what Kawahara intended. But something that simple can be intangible for some people who are looking for something deeper or more intense.
So I got the correct intention by treating it as a side story. Working as intended then.
The problem with trying to upgrade side story -> main story actually makes things a lot messier (I could elaborate, but I'm short on time at the moment - not that anyone cares what I have to say).

Sorry, but there's a simple story in here that the show writers felt the need to complicate. Obvious points became not obvious and the show was emphasising the elements at the wrong time, leading to the wrong train of thoughts.
It's obvious to me now that what the side stories showed is NOT what I'm thinking they're trying to show, because the linear progression train of thought is the WRONG approach.
It's easier just to forget whatever plots was involved and review it halfway through the show to figure out what point they were trying tell me.
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Old 2012-09-12, 07:38   Link #532
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
It didn't, LC members barely appeared even for a minute, so as far the adaption is concerned Triple R is right.
Spoiler for Comparison to the novels:
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Old 2012-09-12, 07:41   Link #533
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This is one of the more well done episodes of SAO, not only because partial scenes had fit its original illustrations very well, but also the love confession -> night -> marriage proposal was really, really smooth. Easily one of the best episodes ever.
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Old 2012-09-12, 09:09   Link #534
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*reads thread*

Looks very divided. Although I enjoyed the episode, Triple R does bring up some valid points. In any case, this is a case of the adaptation not living up to the fans standards IMO.
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Old 2012-09-12, 09:18   Link #535
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Spoiler for Comparison to the Novels:
Spoiler for Content from the LN:

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Old 2012-09-12, 09:25   Link #536
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I have no problems with the show, I'm enjoying it a lot, just if I had to say something is that the show seems to have being more concerned in build-up the couple Kirito/Asuna as a whole more than its parts, namely the characters. If we look at Asuna, we already have seen her wavering a bit from being the strong player we all love to the cutie damsel in distress we all love Even if I found it understandable story-wise, they overplayed it for the sake of it.
Kirito on the other hand went through a lot of major events that, some more than others, leaded him to Asuna, skipping however a vision of the aftermath of them. So even if the events build-up Kirito as a character, it was way more implied than someone would expect, given the gravity of the specific events. Kirito never broke down, he kept being "anti-social" like always, I mean, his changes has been small ones until now. He almost died once, but apparently that didn't sort any apparent inner consequence but the never-ending hug.
Looking at this episode, every single event was "used" to lead Kirito to understand his own feelings and break someone barriers he had, to be able to accept someone else, namely Asuna. Nothing wrong in that, but they sacrificed characters' introspection to the couple development/engagement.
So I agree with Triple_R that they could have splitted the episode in at least in 2 episodes. On the other hand probably it was inevitable due to time restraints. And probably because in the original source they did it in this way so the anime has been faithful to it.
Surely I'd have loved to see this story splitted, sacrificing some side stories that in retrospect I can say not being so propaedeutic to the story.
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Old 2012-09-12, 09:26   Link #537
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
I actually can't remember if this was actually shown during the adaptation of Murder Case (I've just come back from an outstation business trip), however:
Spoiler for Information from Light Novel version of "A Murder Case in the Area":
That was actually from this episode.
Spoiler for Something this episode left out:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
Apologies for that. Too many people make that argument, I just don't accept many more people would complain about a single time skip versus multiple time skips.

Not hate, surprised Kirito is shown in one way when that was never the point of the story.
What is the logical progression of:
"I will survive this game" -> Solo/beater -> ???
Did you guess 'join a guild'?

What is the logical progression of:
"I will survive this game" -> 2 year time skip-> ???
The answer to this is anything can happen because of the clean slate.


Yeah, but the elephant in the room should have been addressed first, which I assume is exactly how the novel was written. I was distracted by the elephant, whereas novel readers had the elephant addressed immediately.


Yes, which is why I argued flashback would be better. There is no expectation of a follow up of a side story because you are already aware of the context of the story. Trying to look for more leads to dead ends, "pointless" arguments about why X/Y/Z isn't shown because of what just happened.


It's not an argument whether it's deep or not. It is deep, but only after you know the context of the story, otherwise the direction/emphasis is completely misguided. By the time you're meant to care, the context came too late and you don't care (well, that's how I felt anyway).


Can't disagree there, though the approach of 1 time skip is easier to swallow than 4 or 5 disjointed linear time, especially if the point of those stories weren't the ones many people were thinking was the point.


Yes, but the point is that the build up of Asuna-Kirito wasn't what the show was trying to get to at all, so the loss is minimal at best. This ep proved how silly it was trying to give too much weight to the whole solo player element, and the "rushed" development of Kirito-Asuna (ie. it wasn't rushed, it was never the point).


So I got the correct intention by treating it as a side story. Working as intended then.
The problem with trying to upgrade side story -> main story actually makes things a lot messier (I could elaborate, but I'm short on time at the moment - not that anyone cares what I have to say).

Sorry, but there's a simple story in here that the show writers felt the need to complicate. Obvious points became not obvious and the show was emphasising the elements at the wrong time, leading to the wrong train of thoughts.
It's obvious to me now that what the side stories showed is NOT what I'm thinking they're trying to show, because the linear progression train of thought is the WRONG approach.
It's easier just to forget whatever plots was involved and review it halfway through the show to figure out what point they were trying tell me.
I think the reason why the studio chose to tell SAO in a chronology fashion is because it had to somehow explain all the game mechanics to the watcher. In the light novel this is done with exposition monologues. This approach wouldn't work well in a visual medium. By putting the side stories in chronology order they could use the side stories to explain the mechanics.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2012-09-12 at 15:37.
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Old 2012-09-12, 09:32   Link #538
Wild Goose
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:26   Link #539
Quadratic
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
I think the reason why the studio chose to tell SAO in a chronology fashion is because it had to somehow explain all the game mechanics to the watcher. In the light novel this is done with exposition monologues. This approach wouldn't work well in a visual medium. By putting the side stories in chronology order the could use the side stories to explain the mechanics.
True, though many mechanics ended up being reexplained again anyway (teleport crystals & traps are the first that comes to mind).


Some time back, we got this whole super-Kirito argument to the point where "if Kirito wins against the guild leader, he's OP, if he loses, the writing sucks" (paraphrased). After realising side stories are side stories, I now realise this is the most hilarious result we got from trying to promote side stories to main story.

The fact is, there is no super-Kirito.
How did this conclusion come about? Easy, anime viewers linking side stories together with disasterous results:

Asuna-Kirito first boss fight: Whoa, screaming Kirito must be strong.
Kirito solos Santa Clause: Nothing stopping this man on Christmas.
Kirito vs a bunch of PvPers: Man of steel, right there folks.
Kirito solving a mystery: Detective Kirito, going Batman on me, are we?
Kirito soloing a dragon/wall running/saving Lisbeth: Holy crap! Super-Kirito!

Kirito solos a front line boss: put the others together and you get...
Klein! what does the scouter say?
It's over 9000!!!!!

This apparent explosion in power level then leads to 'guild leader must be more OP than Kirito'.

By putting the pieces together you get super-Kirito, when in fact none of the side stories were meant to showcase Kirito's awesomeness (Well, the dragon fight is probably the worst offender in promoting a super-Kirito).

So why did this happen? Because us anime-only viewers are dumb because we missed the "subtlies" of the side stories, such as, he was actually fightly scrubs and low level bosses, and the fights weren't the point at all.


If you cut the side stories out, as one should have done, you get:
Kirito solos a front line boss.
Kirito loses.

What does this imply? Bosses are still soloable at end-game, and Kirito isn't a top dog.
This is what probably how Kirito was meant to be portrayed, and greatly reduces the power level of solo-Kirito, hence why Kirito could be beaten.
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Old 2012-09-12, 15:42   Link #540
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Originally Posted by Quadratic View Post
So why did this happen? Because us anime-only viewers are dumb because we missed the "subtlies" of the side stories, such as, he was actually fightly scrubs and low level bosses, and the fights weren't the point at all.


If you cut the side stories out, as one should have done, you get:
Kirito solos a front line boss.
Kirito loses.

What does this imply? Bosses are still soloable at end-game, and Kirito isn't a top dog.
This is what probably how Kirito was meant to be portrayed, and greatly reduces the power level of solo-Kirito, hence why Kirito could be beaten.
I thought they made it pretty clear in every episode of the "side-stories" that Kirito was much higher level than anyone else and the monsters for the floor

And I suppose you're right that you can "technically" solo a boss.. but that's probably not wise right? Kirito is LV96 as of floor 74, which includes a "margin of safety" - so even the frontline is "below Kirito's level range" and the anime makes it clear:

1) To fight bosses you should bring many people and keep switching
2) The likelihood of him dying to Santa-boss was very high, he was feeling suicidal
3) The likelihood of him dying to Gleam-Eyes was very high, but Dual Blades is OP

So what I get from that is:

1) To survive, you fight bosses as a big group, even with a level advantage
2) Kirito is ONE of the top dogs, but can still be beaten obviously
3) Heathcliff is even more of a top dog
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