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Old 2013-07-15, 16:31   Link #81
offended
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Um, in their defense if the princess had won she would have enslaved the two of them instead.
Certainly, if the princess had won she would have had the power to command the two main characters however she pleased. However the main character was the one who instigated the game, negotiated the terms, and determined the bet.

Sora's grand strategy involved duping the princess not outwitting her. Everything revolved around conditions which were not what they seemed. Sora won as soon as she agreed and everything before that was reversible. So, I don't think that it's justifiable to say that the main characters were up against it and that this was their only option.

My primary complaint is not that this happened, but that it is trivialized and trivialized in a particularly malicious manner. You see, normally when we want to cast something dark in a whiter light we do so by hiding the questionable aspects.

If a bad guy were to be gunned down he would be 'defeated', and we would avoid things like the impact to his family, the fact that his neighbor will starve without him, his frustration, or the excruciating pain that often accompanies a less than instantaneous death. In short, we avoid empathizing with the bad guy because he's the bad guy.

By contrast, the princess is the most human character in the entire manga thus far and we go through the enslavement episode primarily from her perspective. This manga is holding up those darker aspects and giggling.

"Isn't it too adorable the way he writhes in pain? I bet the family will starve- that's just totes delish."

(not to attack you personally XFire, I appreciate your input)
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Old 2013-07-15, 17:35   Link #82
sasuke706
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You're over-exaggerating how bad it actually is. Not that I don't mind a completely grimdark story where people are broken and everything is screwed and gets worse and worse and worse.

The command was to make her fall in love with him, without any duration set on it. That means she could potentially fall out of love with him, like with 'fleeting love'. Of course it could also mean forever, but it hasn't been clarified. And by submitting to his requests, that means if she genuinely loved Sora, she would have accommodated him as well regardless since she has no actual obligation to do anything for him. All she has are urges to support him because that's what her view on love is. Compare it to a yandere's love which could involve decapitation or imprisonment and whatnot.

And Sora completely outwitted her—that's what mind games are. Duping, deception, and stratagems are all contests of wit. She even knew she was being toyed with, just not how. Sora and Shiro, who weren't even born in her world, were able to outwit her with basic wording choice. She by all means had every opportunity to make better conditions for herself but was too narrow-minded and prideful, which is part of why her kingdom was forced into the situation it is.

All in all, I like how the author handled it. I don't view it as inhumane either.
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Old 2013-07-15, 22:37   Link #83
XFire
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Originally Posted by offended View Post
Certainly, if the princess had won she would have had the power to command the two main characters however she pleased. However the main character was the one who instigated the game, negotiated the terms, and determined the bet.

Sora's grand strategy involved duping the princess not outwitting her. Everything revolved around conditions which were not what they seemed. Sora won as soon as she agreed and everything before that was reversible. So, I don't think that it's justifiable to say that the main characters were up against it and that this was their only option.

My primary complaint is not that this happened, but that it is trivialized and trivialized in a particularly malicious manner. You see, normally when we want to cast something dark in a whiter light we do so by hiding the questionable aspects.

If a bad guy were to be gunned down he would be 'defeated', and we would avoid things like the impact to his family, the fact that his neighbor will starve without him, his frustration, or the excruciating pain that often accompanies a less than instantaneous death. In short, we avoid empathizing with the bad guy because he's the bad guy.

By contrast, the princess is the most human character in the entire manga thus far and we go through the enslavement episode primarily from her perspective. This manga is holding up those darker aspects and giggling.

"Isn't it too adorable the way he writhes in pain? I bet the family will starve- that's just totes delish."

(not to attack you personally XFire, I appreciate your input)
Um, I'm not sure we are reading the same manga. There was no enslavement. In fact, the princess herself says she was lucky he said that instead of forcing her to support him, like what she wanted to do.

She is completely conscious of what is going on, hence why she starts hitting herself over the head when she accidentally goes all melty on him. And she kicked him in the face when he went to far, meaning she isn't helpless.

And Sora doesn't seem to actually understand what just happened, or otherwise he is psychologically incapable of taking advantage of it.

Also, this story operates under a different of rules than our world. I'm not coping out, don't give me that look. The princess intended to use a victory to control him, and was perfectly aware the opposite would happen if she lost.

I think what happened with you was that you assumed that "fall in love" meant she lost all free will, which she hasn't. And to put in a minor spoiler
Spoiler for LN:
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Old 2013-07-16, 01:37   Link #84
J4n1
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Well, the manga chapters seem interesting, so will be keeping an eye out for LN translations.
It's hilarious (and kinda disturbing), how the siblings go from confident, capable and arrogant into complete and total wrecks simply from being separated and having a wall between them.
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Old 2013-07-16, 01:47   Link #85
XFire
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Originally Posted by J4n1 View Post
Well, the manga chapters seem interesting, so will be keeping an eye out for LN translations.
It's hilarious (and kinda disturbing), how the siblings go from confident, capable and arrogant into complete and total wrecks simply from being separated and having a wall between them.
That single phrase seems to sum up the series in general.
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Old 2013-07-27, 16:04   Link #86
OtakuFreak88
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Originally Posted by offended View Post
I think the mind control thing is really disturbing. Intruding on someone's free will is inherently violating but it can be used in interesting ways. However, moral complexity and depth of character aren't really this author's cup of tea. Instead he, or she, seems content to generate a moe kyun kyun fucktoy and leave it at that.

Even more oddly, the manga revels in the princess's bondage. It takes great pains to illustrate the extent to which not only her mentality but her sexuality has been enslaved. The female lead even acknowledges that this is a human rights violation, but it's apparently the victim's fault- 'cause she was too gullible.

Really the female lead is right, the princess was lucky to get out of that game with her life. How can we hold this against the main characters? They're practically gods overflowing with generosity and charity.
To be honest, although the princess is forced to fall in love with Sora, it does not seems like she's under mind control, as she's struggling to refuse his demands. If you were to ask me, I think she does not mind it at all, maybe a Tsundere?! I can smell harem in the air. The main protagonist looks like innocent pervert, a common character setting for most harem kings.
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Old 2013-07-27, 16:21   Link #87
Guy Incognito
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtakuFreak88 View Post
To be honest, although the princess is forced to fall in love with Sora, it does not seems like she's under mind control, as she's struggling to refuse his demands. If you were to ask me, I think she does not mind it at all, maybe a Tsundere?! I can smell harem in the air. The main protagonist looks like innocent pervert, a common character setting for most harem kings.
there was nothing innocent about what he did
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Old 2013-07-27, 21:44   Link #88
XFire
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Originally Posted by Dovahkyon View Post
there was nothing innocent about what he did
Oh, for the love of......

I just re-read both the novel and manga versions. Let me explain (not justify) what he did.

Spoiler for conditions:


Spoiler for results:


The only thing Sora tricked her on was what a "trivial wish" implied. In other words, she carried the same risk regardless of loss or tie. The only thing she didn't know was that her chances were lower than expected. Other than that she knew exactly what was being bet.

If Sora had lost he'd have been her slave. If she lost, she thought she would be enslaved. Instead she has an abnormal amount of affection that she can still fight against. Is it creepy? Yes. Is it better than what would have happened if it had gone her way? Yes. Will any of this change your mind? Probably not.
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Old 2013-07-27, 22:15   Link #89
Guy Incognito
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Originally Posted by XFire View Post
Oh, for the love of......

I just re-read both the novel and manga versions. Let me explain (not justify) what he did.

Spoiler for conditions:


Spoiler for results:

The only thing Sora tricked her on was what a "trivial wish" implied. In other words, she carried the same risk regardless of loss or tie. The only thing she didn't know was that her chances were lower than expected. Other than that she knew exactly what was being bet.

If Sora had lost he'd have been her slave. If she lost, she thought she would be enslaved. Instead she has an abnormal amount of affection that she can still fight against. Is it creepy? Yes. Is it better than what would have happened if it had gone her way? Yes. Will any of this change your mind? Probably not.
chill dude i am just saying hes not 100 percent innocent. he did tick and molest her in a joking way
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Old 2013-07-27, 22:30   Link #90
XFire
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chill dude i am just saying hes not 100 percent innocent. he did tick and molest her in a joking way
Yeah, sorry. I just remembered how this topic got out of hand last time and figured I'd try and nip it in the bud. Didn't mean to explode like that.
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Old 2013-07-27, 22:57   Link #91
Valky
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Is it just me, or this LN got itself an anime adaptation?

https://twitter.com/comic_alive/stat...24201417777153
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Old 2013-07-27, 23:49   Link #92
Mura
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You would be correct. How many volumes are out right now?
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Old 2013-07-27, 23:55   Link #93
cloud04
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for ngnl should be 4 vol
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Old 2013-07-27, 23:56   Link #94
Mura
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I see, I think Date a Live only had four volumes out when it was first announced so its not too bad.
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Old 2013-07-28, 00:23   Link #95
cloud04
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I see, I think Date a Live only had four volumes out when it was first announced so its not too bad.
nope DAL anime was announced when vol 3 just finished thats why it took like what 1 year+ before the anime got out
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Old 2013-07-28, 00:34   Link #96
Valky
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Right, it was 3 volume. But they already made anime announcement and game (soon after) on the way. They really did go all out there.

No Game No Life, I didn't read the LN since my japanese still suck, my friend did and he said it's pretty good, so yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 2013-07-28, 00:37   Link #97
cloud04
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Right, it was 3 volume. But they already made anime announcement and game (soon after) on the way. They really did go all out there.

No Game No Life, I didn't read the LN since my japanese still suck, my friend did and he said it's pretty good, so yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
ill be damned if all of them are in the same season XD
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Old 2013-07-28, 01:04   Link #98
OtakuFreak88
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Originally Posted by Valky View Post
Is it just me, or this LN got itself an anime adaptation?

https://twitter.com/comic_alive/stat...24201417777153
YEEEAHHH, IT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED. ANIME ANIME, THIS GREAT SERIES DESERVES IT.

here's the PV:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7lyVAJNQo
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Old 2013-07-28, 19:13   Link #99
blackwhite67
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This is going to be interesting. I have to confess that of all the series I follow, this was last one I ever thought would ever get an anime adaptation. PV was prett hardcore. I wonder if the fact that they included the covers of the first 3 volumes is a hint that they'll cover them in the anime?
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Old 2013-07-28, 22:11   Link #100
cloud04
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seems this one is gonna be the 1st
http://seventhstyle.com/2013/07/28/n...in-anime-form/
having anime visuals out already
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