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Old 2013-03-26, 03:54   Link #441
Hollownerox
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Again...not really, it all comes down to how you do it and play with the resources at hand (loops and so on), if you know what you're doing it can easily be pulled off.
I know this has also been discussed to death too, but the whole loops thing would spoil the surprise if it was used. When most people first played Little Busters they didn't know each route was a loop, hence the whole "secret of the world" part. But because of the median, aka the visual novel format, people simply assumed they were just playing different heroine routes instead of any sign of time repeating or anything. It wasn't until Kud's route or Kurugaya's (depending on the order you played them) where people began to fully realize the supernatural elements.

So having the anime actually show that time loops from the start would have massively spoiled the surprise from the very beginning. Hence why a merged version was needed in order to keep the suspense for the "secret".

Also let me clarify what I meant about the 'harem anime feel" thing I said, as well as the whole ruin the theme thing.

For the whole Harem anime thing I was talking about, if they included romance for each girl then it would have just felt like one. The reason the VN didn't have the feeling was because each girl fell in love with him individually, the others didn't take romantic interest (except arguably Kanata) until their own routes. So if the animators included romance in the merged path they are doing, it would have made it feel just like a common harem anime. The MC goes in, solves the girl's issues, and they fall in love with him while he moves onto the next one. Obviously Little Busters isn't that kind of series, so I'm happy they aren't going about it like that. (Note: This isn't really in regards to your argument, (since you simply feel the Kurugaya route won't be as effective without romance and I do agree to an extent), but mostly to the people crying about how there's been no romance for all the girls)

If they animated the routes the same way they are doing now (I.E the merged path) and included romance it would have diminished the point of the story. Little Busters is about friendship, that is pretty obvious. If they animated the story and had romance then it would get rid of the whole friendship moral, the girl's issues would be solved because they fell in love with Riki, not because of the power of friendship.

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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Not really, I still play LB to this day and whenever I read certain scenes they still carry a nice impact, however while watching those same scenes in the anime /even before replaying them in the VN) the impact was much weaker.
I doubt most will deny that scenes like the Komari Mental Breakdown scene had a weaker impact in the anime than it had in the VN (just one of the examples from when I still watched it regularly).
I have to agree with this point though, while the anime did include the emotional scenes they were not as effective as they were in the VN. For example the Kanata pretending to be Haruka scene, much of the impact from the scene was due to the build up (the numerous hints throughout, like the whole right handed scissors or the not sucking hard at cooking bits) and the fact that the VN implied Kanata had an attraction to Riki. The anime unfortunately removed these so the emotional blow was not nearly as hard as it should have been. Though this can be (partially) excused by the fact that they did not have enough time to flesh out individual character bits like that.
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Last edited by Hollownerox; 2013-03-26 at 04:00. Reason: Typos, the hell is a "mergeded"?
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Old 2013-03-26, 11:27   Link #442
Randrak42
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You know...I could continue this discussion but it's pointless. Instead I'll just say that you guys do make good points (more than I xD) and though I don't agree with some of them, it's also a subjective thing.

I will not stop believing the anime made many wrong choices and cursing the makers for not meeting my expectations. But again, this is subjective and I know full well that others, unlike me, actually like the anime this way.

Am I disappointing in the anime? Most certainly and I'm letting that get to me. I believe it just came from a need to have non-VN readers know the LB I know and love instead of the current anime version which I personally consider inferior...though that's obviously me trying to impose my views on others, which I hypocritically always loathed.
Also it doesn't happen now, but what really ticked me off was at the start of the anime when people came in, didn't like the anime and started bashing the VN as well, without even playing it.

I also want to apologize if I sounded a bit dickish, the discussion has really been done to death (and I find myself more and more alone on my side xD) that I'm just getting tired of it. I will try my best to withhold further judgement until the anime is over...though I can't make promises for when Kurugaya's route rolls around because like I said before "Favorite character, favorite route...don't touch my precious or I'll kill you".

PS: Just a little side note for Hollownerox, from the comments I've read, a lot (possibly most) of the anime only viewers seem to be well aware of the loops since the first or second one.
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Old 2013-03-26, 13:55   Link #443
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I perfectly understand where you're coming from Randrak42, I've had similar experiences with many other VN adaptions such as Fate/Stay Night. And yes, it really does piss me off when I feel the anime is doing an inadequate job at delivering the same enjoyment to others that I got from reading its source. Especially when the anime gives the impression that the original is also that bad. I understand that you want other people to enjoy it the way you did because you love it as well.

There definitely are things (Like Komari's route) that were not done too well in the anime compared to the VN, so I can understand the anime definitely isn't perfect either. But yes, all we're saying here is that there are definitely certain decisions by JC Staff that seem natural and logical, and that until we see how those decisions later impact the experience for the anime audience, it is hard to know if it really was the right decision. aka, lets not try to poison the well for people. .

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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
PS: Just a little side note for Hollownerox, from the comments I've read, a lot (possibly most) of the anime only viewers seem to be well aware of the loops since the first or second one.
Not that this might be true, but people on places like MAL definitely are doing the "I'm speculating like an anime viewer, but I actually read the source already" shtick. It's pretty annoying, but I am not sure many anime viewers realize what is actually going on. I know some people think after the latest episode with the dwarf story that this is an Angel Beats like story.
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Old 2013-03-26, 20:12   Link #444
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I think they might do what Kyoani did and have a separate episode for Kurugaya. Maybe have her true end perhaps in another half since, like Tomoyo and Kyou it is romance based. I could see them making Sasami, Saya and Kanata OVA's too perhaps? Who knows.

I think it makes sense to remove the romance myself because as an anime only viewer it doesn't work well into the overall story. Even with evident loops it may leave the anime viewer feeling cheapened (assuming he forgets them), like how anime only viewers felt in Clannad (lack of loops). Also the girls in Refrain seemed like they hardly belonged and nobody gave a damn about what happened to them. That is how I felt anyway. With JC staff actually making it about friendship, you actually care about them as a group and not just as love interests. That is why I'm hoping JC staff does a better job of certain elements of Refrain (among other issues I had) than the game by making the girl's more important.
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Old 2013-03-26, 20:51   Link #445
Randrak42
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I personally don't think the girls should get a much more relevant role in Refrain (and this isn't a VN purist speaking xD)
I loved Refrain exactly BECAUSE it was so heavily focused on the original LB members. The girls had their moment to shine during their own routes, Refrain was Kyousuke, Kengo, Masato, Riki and Rin's own route...and I don't think they really belong or have a real place in Refrain until the end.
Sure I'd like to see more than just an interaction between Komari and Rin at the end of the dream world when it comes to the other girls but that's about it, just have the girls show up at the end of the dream world and say a few words at most.
Let the other girls "vanish" during most of Refrain and leave it to the characters that actually matter.

TL;DR - Refrain is all about the original LB members and it should really stay like that, the other girls should have real relevant place in it.
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Old 2013-03-27, 19:58   Link #446
Hollownerox
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
You know...I could continue this discussion but it's pointless. Instead I'll just say that you guys do make good points (more than I xD) and though I don't agree with some of them, it's also a subjective thing.
Agreed, you had made quite a few of your good points as well. Personally I judge the quality of an Anime once it has been completed rather than when its airing so that may be a reason for the difference of viewpoints here. But its best to leave the argument be for now before some troll comes and makes it less civilized.

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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Not that this might be true, but people on places like MAL definitely are doing the "I'm speculating like an anime viewer, but I actually read the source already" shtick. It's pretty annoying, but I am not sure many anime viewers realize what is actually going on. I know some people think after the latest episode with the dwarf story that this is an Angel Beats like story.
Unfortunately I've noticed a few people doing that too. There were some users on an anime viewer only topic making some "speculations" that just so happen to be the next major plot point in the show. (Quite a few on the MyAnimeList episode polls.)

Does giving out spoilers make people feel intelligent or something because I really cannot see the reasoning for ruining the suspense of a show...

As for the Angel Beats beats comparisons, honestly I'm not surprised, after all Angel Beats did draw a lot of inspiration from Key's previous works. Though it does get a tad annoying when people ask if Little Busters is just a rehash of Angel Beats, especially considering LB was created quite some time before AB did.

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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Refrain is all about the original LB members and it should really stay like that, the other girls should have real relevant place in it.
I personally saw Refrain as the best part of the game, and it was the fact it was only the original childhood friends that made it special. What made it a tearjeaker wasn't the fact that they were saying goodbye to their love ones, but the fact that they were being forced to abandon the lives of friends they have been with for a good majority of their lives. What really got me was when Kengo asked if his life was happy, having all the heroines their would have diminished the value of that scene in my opinion.
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Last edited by Hollownerox; 2013-03-27 at 20:11.
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Old 2013-03-27, 20:50   Link #447
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Hollownerox View Post
Unfortunately I've noticed a few people doing that too. There were some users on an anime viewer only topic making some "speculations" that just so happen to be the next major plot point in the show. (Quite a few on the MyAnimeList episode polls.)

Does giving out spoilers make people feel intelligent or something because I really cannot see the reasoning for ruining the suspense of a show...
These "absurdly accurate speculations" happen in every anime adaptation of a series where the original is either complete or a good ways forward. It's a simple case of "See! I predicted it without checking the manga/LN/VN!! The plot is so predictable/I'm so smart!".
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Old 2013-03-28, 00:03   Link #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
I personally don't think the girls should get a much more relevant role in Refrain (and this isn't a VN purist speaking xD)
I loved Refrain exactly BECAUSE it was so heavily focused on the original LB members. The girls had their moment to shine during their own routes, Refrain was Kyousuke, Kengo, Masato, Riki and Rin's own route...and I don't think they really belong or have a real place in Refrain until the end.
Sure I'd like to see more than just an interaction between Komari and Rin at the end of the dream world when it comes to the other girls but that's about it, just have the girls show up at the end of the dream world and say a few words at most.
Let the other girls "vanish" during most of Refrain and leave it to the characters that actually matter.

TL;DR - Refrain is all about the original LB members and it should really stay like that, the other girls should have real relevant place in it.
No, I agree with you to focus on the LB originals for Refrain. My big issue was regarding the accident. This is counted as being in Refrain right? That was my big beef. It wasn't done as well as it could have been. I really saw no concern for the girls during the accident or any actual shock that they had died after. Rin seemed to care a bit but it wasn't as good as it could have been. Also with no reaction from Riki made it seem like they hardly mattered. There are more issues I had with how the actual crash played out, I hope that can be improved on too.
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Old 2013-03-28, 09:10   Link #449
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Originally Posted by Hollownerox View Post


As for the Angel Beats beats comparisons, honestly I'm not surprised, after all Angel Beats did draw a lot of inspiration from Key's previous works. Though it does get a tad annoying when people ask if Little Busters is just a rehash of Angel Beats, especially considering LB was created quite some time before AB did.
Well, if anything, Angel Beats is the development of ideas I'd argued started with Clannad's illusionary world (Dying dream of family), was further developed with Little Buster's Dream (Dying dream of friends) World, and finally taken to it's logical conclusion with Angel Beats (Dying dream of total strangers)

So, yes. They are on to something - if you tell an AB viewer that AB is a development of LB's premise to it's logical conclusion, that's already a huge hint to the secret of the world. (Ie: This is a shared dream of a group of friends about to die)
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Old 2013-03-28, 22:09   Link #450
Reckoner
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I agree with the idea that the girls shouldn't really be integrated into Refrain (Maybe beyond the crash scene), because that would really ruin certain scenes.

I think KEY has an idea of what they're doing though (Least I hope so). Clannad AS didn't clumsily integrate the other cast members in it, so hopefully Refrain won't either.
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Old 2013-04-06, 09:00   Link #451
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S2 confirmed http://puu.sh/2uW2e trailer was revealed during the last episode of little busters.
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Old 2013-04-06, 09:11   Link #452
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S2 confirmed http://puu.sh/2uW2e trailer was revealed during the last episode of little busters.
*locked myself in the bathroom and scream like a girl*
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Old 2013-04-06, 10:02   Link #453
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Trailer https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...v=CcyFNM6da9Q#!
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Old 2013-04-06, 20:00   Link #454
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So I'm correct in assuming they're heavily implying Kurugaya route in Refrain?
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Old 2013-04-06, 20:18   Link #455
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My guess is that they will be using Anego's story to reveal what the secret of the world is. As for where they will place it, I can only guess it will be right before Refrain. But I'm pretty sure there are some conflicts with that since Rin2 needs to be before Refrain.
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Old 2013-04-06, 20:30   Link #456
Randrak42
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Nah...they'll Anego's route it right before Rin's route and won't even bother with Rin1, just jump right into Rin2 and then Refrain.
I'm guessing at least.
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Old 2013-04-06, 22:57   Link #457
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I'm kinda confused about the ordering of events.

In episode 26, Kyousuke at roughly 10:08 seconds has mental images concerning:
Kurugaya Route (watching fireworks with Kurugaya)
Rin 2 (Rin in uniform + challenging Kyousuke + Grandpa's house)
Refrain (defeated Masato)

By the flow J.C. has shown so far, everyone has retained memories of Riki's aid up till now. We had hints for loops having possibly occurred, Riki's recycled waking scene, but Riki seems to remember what he has done for each girl. There are two anomalies.

Rin and Kurugaya seem to be the exceptions. Neither Rin nor Kurugaya have had an animated route yet. However, Kyousuke's thoughts seem to hint that Riki has already been through and forgotten Kurugaya/Rin 2. Seeing as how Rin isn't in her broken state though, they can't have passed Rin 2 yet.

Also, Masato's image is reserved for refrain, which played through like a one-time event. It's too early!

Refrain previews at the end of the episode show different scenes from each of the aforementioned Kyousuke thought scenes. So how are Kyousuke's memories explained? Is this just his "godly" foresight at work?
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Old 2013-04-07, 00:33   Link #458
Randrak42
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That's just JC Staff being stupid while trying to be intriguing...
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Old 2013-04-07, 03:48   Link #459
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Yeah on this case, I would have to say that this is KEY/JC staff just being stupid. It doesn't make sense to show anything from rin2 or refrain. But whatever, not a big deal.
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Old 2013-04-07, 08:29   Link #460
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Also, keep in mind that these 'flashbacks' picture Kengo from Rin2 WITHOUT the Little Busters Jacket, while the Refrain preview we got includes the Jacket.
Odd...
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