AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Fansub Groups

Notices

View Poll Results: How do you like your Karaoke?
Karaoke with cool flashy special effects! 36 36.36%
Simple Karaoke only 42 42.42%
No karaoke, just the lyrics and translation 17 17.17%
Clean op/ed 4 4.04%
Voters: 99. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-05-15, 15:10   Link #21
pookakitten
Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secca
Hmmm I guess so.

I tought it'll be kinda nice if you put the kanji and the romanji together, so for people that trying to learn to read japanese can see the pronounciation of the kanji word in romanji and as they heard the song.
Secca,

Minor problem with that idea--the text goes by so fast that I can't match the romanji to the kanji. I also can't split my attention between the kanji, romanji and the animation and enjoy the opening as a whole. Admittedly, I can't play piano two handed, so that may explain things a bit.

Samantha
pookakitten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-15, 16:29   Link #22
Secca
nya`
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by pookakitten
Secca,

Minor problem with that idea--the text goes by so fast that I can't match the romanji to the kanji. I also can't split my attention between the kanji, romanji and the animation and enjoy the opening as a whole. Admittedly, I can't play piano two handed, so that may explain things a bit.

Samantha
I just bouncing ideas because I saw some fansub group done it. And it looks nice and easier to match the hiragana kanji with the romanji when it's not on the opposite of the screen. Like in here,


This is a screens of Aishiteruze Baby's karaoke by afk.
__________________
Secca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-15, 19:05   Link #23
LordBrian
Triad's Friendly Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire
Stating an opinion is not the same thing as 'crying and moaning'.
And constructive criticism is far better than just "stating an opinion," which I'd like to point out that your latest post is not exactly a good example of. I personally like simple karaoke in OPs/EDs, but I don't dismiss all flashy karaoke as "Too many egos and oooo! everyone look at how cweeeative I am!" arguments. Without mentioning any names, there are definitely some bullet karaoke techniques that are over the top, but there are also some that look damn good (and I will forever use HnG as the definitive example of this).

But really, the point is that I like pointing out hypocrisy, so I just felt like taking the opportunity to show that your post is no more mature than any you may be "constructively" criticizing.
LordBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 05:09   Link #24
sapphire
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Okay, I said what I did about the karaoke font because I was angered by that first post that was attacking me. (I know it was referring specifically to some things that I said in my post some weeks ago). I know I brought it on myself but that post really hurt

See, that's why I don't make posts on mbs anymore (supposedly) I have very strong opinions and I tend to be blunt but I am very sensitive and easily hurt. And my strong blunt opinions tend to inspire hostility..look, I said about 738 times in that original post that I was grateful for the fansubs and I am. I have a horrible feeling that the reason why there aren't anymore mmpp fansubs coming might be because the fansubbers are pissed off at what I said...oh shit.

Like I said I regretted it the moment I pressed the submit button. I was in 'rant' mode and it felt good to rant...but I didn't think. Now everyone on this forum probably hates me and that really, really upsets me.

I would prefer that OPS are left as clean and as close to the original as possible. I do think that *some* fansubbers are letting their egos get in the way of the presentation of the anime. I'm hardly unique in thinking that. However, I should have said these things more diplomatically in the original post I know. Better still I should have written it in my lj where no-one here would have seen it and I would have satisfied my desire to rant

As for that comment that 'don't need people like that in the scene', quite apart from the breathtaking arrogance of proclaiming that you 'don't need' me. (Darling you got me anyway! so nyah) I had no idea I was part of a 'scene'. All I did was make a handful of posts on a mb. I have no desire whatever to be part of any 'scene' and if making a post on here confers membership then I hereby tender my resignation.

And I am a clueless newby, what can I say? I'm just an anime fan who just discovered bit torrent, I honestly didn't know that it was bad form to criticise fansubbers. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings (I actually worried about that all the next day) that was not my intention. Sigh. It was me letting off steam with my cipramil withdrawal. That's all.

I am really worried that shoujo won't bring out any more mermaid melody subs because of what I said...although I don't like their logo and karaoke font if they are the only people to sub that anime I really would like them to continue as I really like mmpp! Shoujo people-I do dislike both of those things but I do like the actual sub itself, it is appreciated. Sorry if I hurt your feelings, I was too blunt. I did intend the criticism to be constructive believe it or not.

I didn't know that Thou Shall Not Criticise The Fansubbers, I'm from a background where you give your opinion more freely what can I say? Obviously that doesn't go down well in this 'scene'. or whatever.

I do think that the first poster CP-something (sorry I'm not good at remembering numbers so I honestly can't remember) I appreciate that my original comments might have hurt your feelings and I regret that, but your insistence on name calling only shows your immaturity. Meh yourself.

out of here

saph.
sapphire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 09:51   Link #25
LytHka
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I like doing kara and kara fxs. There's nothing more rewarding to see something that you worked (hard?) on turn out good. Having said that I can also say that I don't like ALL fx kara. The ones I don't like are simply the ones that don't nearly go with the song.
LytHka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 11:07   Link #26
Uska
Guardian of the Seal
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Uska Send a message via Yahoo to Uska
I myself feel simple karaoke(with good looking fonts of course) are best in a fansub. And the kanji lyrics don't hurt either. However sfx don't bother me at all, in fact more power to the fansubber to took their time into making an effect. It's A LOT harder than what most ppl think as I hear it's cause of their "egos". An ego and doing a karaoke don't have to do with each other. The typesetter can boast about his karaoke as much as he wants when he makes a karaoke that took him several lines just for one sung sentence. It's when the group/typesetter boasts about it trying to bring down other fansubbers that their ego gets in the way. Plus the flashiest karaoke i've seen so far is A-keep's Yumeria op. But I didn't think of it as their egos getting in the way cause it wasn't overdone. They didn't put a mega huge "#ANIME-KEEP" title and they translated the credits. So good job for a-keep ^__^

But anyway, back on topic, i'm happy with a simple karaoke.
__________________
Founder of #SD@Rizon. Come visit us sometime!
Uska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 12:03   Link #27
StormD
D is for Damage!
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Send a message via ICQ to StormD Send a message via AIM to StormD
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordBrian
And constructive criticism is far better than just "stating an opinion," which I'd like to point out that your latest post is not exactly a good example of. I personally like simple karaoke in OPs/EDs, but I don't dismiss all flashy karaoke as "Too many egos and oooo! everyone look at how cweeeative I am!" arguments. Without mentioning any names, there are definitely some bullet karaoke techniques that are over the top, but there are also some that look damn good (and I will forever use HnG as the definitive example of this).

But really, the point is that I like pointing out hypocrisy, so I just felt like taking the opportunity to show that your post is no more mature than any you may be "constructively" criticizing.
I do sort of agree with the basic argument that some fansub groups are a little ego-centric, although I think that's sort of natural. Everyone who does some work on something feels like they deserve some credit for it, and as I am learning by actually doing it, fansubbing can be quite a bit of work. Still, I think some people take what should be a fairly simple endeavor and go way too far with it...

I'll admit I was fairly impressed with karaoke effects the first time I saw them, although they hadn't really gotten flashy yet. But now, I wonder...do we need this on EVERY episode? Why can't we get a clean OP every now and then? Why not just release a karaoke version of the OP/ED separately.

Another problem is clutter. With karaoke of the japanese and romaji transliterations, an english translation of the song, and props to all the people in the fansub group who contributed to the project, there's hardly any room on the screen to see the OP animation...and what about the people who actually MADE the show? As tedious as fansubbing is, I guarantee directing, character designing, etc is a lot more work, and those people deserve recognition as well. If we can put our own names up there, why not the original staff? After-all...fansubs is about encouraging fan-dom (ideally), so shouldn't we make the effort to help increase name-recognition of (at the very least) directors, designers, writers and voice actors? I know some groups do this, but most don't. I'm endeavoring to do it with Shin Getter, and I hope it catches on as a trend.

But...now we have even more clutter. This is where I think next-generation container-formats with soft-subs can help out a lot. Because, even though we want to bring all this info to our audiences, we have to respect that sometimes they just want to watch that OP animation without having the screen covered in english-text overlay! It'll be nice when you can just clicky and make it all disappear for any given show you're watching...

But okay...not everybody has matroska and VSFilters enabled, and some people are just too lazy to "be bothered". But...not everybody had XviD and DivX (or ffdshow) two years ago...but when they needed it to watch a show, they got it...and they've learned to keep their codecs up-to-date since. Surely we can expect people to install a mere container and soft-sub filter just once?

Or maybe not...I understand there is resistance to this...in the mean time, can we skip all the bullshit on some episodes? Maybe alternate between episodes...one show with the karaoke, one show with the translation, one with credits, one with fansubber credits, one clean? Some happy combination of that?

Going past just karaoke, can we also endeavor not to overthink the typography so much? All we're doing is translating dialog so people can read it...and therefore we should use a font that's easy to read fast, without any distracting styles. To that end, I'd suggest something clean and simple, without serifs (which don't usually look good on screen), and definitely not a script. I've personally been using Tahoma, which I think is perfect for on-screen reading, although Arial/Helvetica is nice too, and some people like Verdana, but I think that one's a bit too wide.
StormD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 12:22   Link #28
Kasshin
Kasshin X Kasshin
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via ICQ to Kasshin Send a message via AIM to Kasshin Send a message via MSN to Kasshin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uska
Plus the flashiest karaoke i've seen so far is A-keep's Yumeria op.
Actually, there are a lot of German/French fansub karaokes that are MUCH more "flashy". (and some of them are textsub too) I've seen a few english fansub karaokes that are more "flashy" as well.
Kasshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 14:27   Link #29
LordBrian
Triad's Friendly Editor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormD
But now, I wonder...do we need this on EVERY episode? Why can't we get a clean OP every now and then? Why not just release a karaoke version of the OP/ED separately.
Because if you karaoke one episode, and then leave it out of the next, people will accuse you of not properly watching your release beforehand. "You left out the karaoke! What else did you screw up? When is a v2 coming out?" And so on.

I guess you can always take the official DVD route and go English lyrics one ep and Japanese lyrics the next, to minimize the amount of clutter, but since most subbers don't really care one way or the other, you won't see this very much.
LordBrian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-16, 14:45   Link #30
Uska
Guardian of the Seal
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Uska Send a message via Yahoo to Uska
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasshin
Actually, there are a lot of German/French fansub karaokes that are MUCH more "flashy". (and some of them are textsub too) I've seen a few english fansub karaokes that are more "flashy" as well.

That may be true, but I don't know German so I never seen their karaoke :P
__________________
Founder of #SD@Rizon. Come visit us sometime!
Uska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-18, 14:31   Link #31
scotty81
DSL addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brest, Brittany, France
Age: 32
Send a message via AIM to scotty81 Send a message via MSN to scotty81
I like flashy effects on the karaokes. I don't really know why I do but I do, maybe the fact that I have done a few myself, and I enjoy watching what other karaoke makers come up with.
the last opening of naruto , Anbu&AOne , rules!
and if you want the lyrics you can always find them somewhere in google.
scotty81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-18, 23:29   Link #32
Kasshin
Kasshin X Kasshin
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Send a message via ICQ to Kasshin Send a message via AIM to Kasshin Send a message via MSN to Kasshin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uska
That may be true, but I don't know German so I never seen their karaoke :P
Me neither, but some of them are just so nice that people start sending them around, and they eventually make their way to me.
Kasshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-18, 23:51   Link #33
weyoun6
Romanji is evil
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: シアトル
Send a message via ICQ to weyoun6
I like any Karaoke - but my favorites are ones with furigana - so I dont have to look at the romanji. I would prefer not having romanji at all - but thats not happening I guess. I also want more openings that tell you that translate the credits, not just put their own up there.
weyoun6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-19, 00:01   Link #34
Yaoi_Pocky
mentionitis ouendanica
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Furigana'd karaoke

Wouldn't it be an incredible pain-in-the-butt for a fansubber to put the little kana on top of the kanji for the karaoke?

(As far as I know, Uninhabited Planet SURVIVE and Keroro Gunsou has furigana in their karaoke. However, they're built in the original animation, and not added in by fansubbers.)
Yaoi_Pocky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-19, 00:06   Link #35
Tofusensei
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Send a message via AIM to Tofusensei
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaoi_Pocky
Wouldn't it be an incredible pain-in-the-butt for a fansubber to put the little kana on top of the kanji for the karaoke?

(As far as I know, Uninhabited Planet SURVIVE and Keroro Gunsou has furigana in their karaoke. However, they're built in the original animation, and not added in by fansubbers.)
It wouldn't be that hard to do it. In fact, we've done it before in L-E (DAQ karaoke), but umm... What's the point? The romaji is there anyway O_o;

-Tofu
Tofusensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-19, 12:58   Link #36
Secca
nya`
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Actually the most flashies karaoke I ever seen was the L-E April fool Naruto 77. I was watching the opening title "Fish cake?" and the karaoke plays, I was going woooooooooow!! @_@

__________________
Secca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-05-20, 00:17   Link #37
weyoun6
Romanji is evil
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: シアトル
Send a message via ICQ to weyoun6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofusensei
What's the point? The romaji is there anyway O_o;

-Tofu
Because many people find romanji less than helpful when they are trying to learn japanese, its a crutch that is not useful at all, i have found. All my japanese teachers try to get us quickly through the "romanji stage" as fast as possible. I would prefer not to have to look at the romanji, but since I am just starting to learn kanji, I am always switching back and forth. I love Uninhabited Planet Survive since it has furigana. Romanji just slows down the learning of "real" japanese writing.
weyoun6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 20:02.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.