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Old 2013-04-18, 07:01   Link #101
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
Maybe not so much enough in inventory but didn't bring enough? The MLRS only had 2 reloads (or something) while they used tanks with HEAT ammo (talk about using a shotgun to kill a fly) To kill that amount of people they would most likely need a truck per soldier...
Yeah see, I personally found that limited artillery kind of ludicrous. It's rather uncharacteristic of the US Military that if anything is very GOOD at stockpiling large quantities of munitions.


And a truck per soldier sounds just about what you'd need logistically in NORMAL war time conditions. OPFOR enemies aren't as numerous as Zeds, but they do pesky things like take cover. In modern combat, tens to hundreds of thousands of rounds are expended per every enemy you actually kill, all because humans take cover when you shoot at them. It's similar with artillery. enemy personal taking minimal defensive measures (spreading out, trained to employ cover/fortifications) significantly decreases the lethal capability of artillery.


So in short, the idea that they wouldn't bring enough ordinance is kinda goofy, since the US Military already brings excess ordinance into play just to kill small numbers of enemy soldiers.


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Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
As for the horde, I'm guess some of those people are those trapped in highways trying to get out or those thinking eating the in-universe medicine will help them
That first thing is a consequence of the Zombies reaching large numbers. Not an explanation of how they reached large numbers in the first place. And the medicine didn't cause people to turn into zombies, it just made some people think they had immunity. They'd have still been okay if they hadn't been bitten. And I'm frankly not that impressed with the potential mass biting potential of the average slow moving shambler. Not even account for the fat that biting is a horrible way to spread an infection.


I'm not overall upset by the movies decision to turn what was a long drawn out shambler outbreak to what in this movie appears to be an almost spontaneous tidal runner breakout. The books original scenario was not nearly as well thought out as some people claimed it was IMHO.
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Old 2013-04-18, 07:44   Link #102
GDB
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Clearly they all turned at night, with the first zombie(s) attacking a crowded bar. People thought they were just doing some kinky play or something. Soon enough, you have dozens of zombies. Then they spread out and do the same at other bars. By last call, you have hundreds, if not thousands of drunken zombies. That also explains the stumbling you often see.
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:26   Link #103
Kyero Fox
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Or... oooor, bare with me here... the virus is airborn? =\

Oooor the virus was slow to act and before people knew they were zombies it spread so much before it began to make people zombies. Like in Rise of the planet of the apes.
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Old 2013-04-18, 12:28   Link #104
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Or... oooor, bare with me here... the virus is airborn? =\

Oooor the virus was slow to act and before people knew they were zombies it spread so much before it began to make people zombies. Like in Rise of the planet of the apes.
Then it'd be just like Left 4 Dead, and allot less silly than what was in the World War Z novel.
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Old 2013-04-18, 13:26   Link #105
Dhomochevsky
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No, look it's perfectly ok to be bathed in zombie blood when you splatter them.
That won't infect you.
A bite however does.
Conclusion -> zombism is caused by some form of tooth decay, most likely undead-caries.
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Old 2013-04-18, 13:48   Link #106
james0246
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
So in short, the idea that they wouldn't bring enough ordinance is kinda goofy, since the US Military already brings excess ordinance into play just to kill small numbers of enemy soldiers.
It's not even soldiers. For a novel that was released in 2006, Brooks vastly underestimates the sheer amount of ammunition and guns owned by regular citizens, and when you add militia members, and then the Reserves, National Guard, police, etc, it becomes quickly apparent that any form of shambling zombie apocalypse would be routed in weeks or at most months (depending on the virus and how it is spread). The greater fear would be if the virus is communicable to other mammals (zombie Bambi will f*ck you up), and whether it is present in all humans only to be activated upon death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Or... oooor, bare with me here... the virus is airborn? =\

Oooor the virus was slow to act and before people knew they were zombies it spread so much before it began to make people zombies. Like in Rise of the planet of the apes.
Mira Grant's Newsflesh trilogy paints a fairly realistic picture of just what a airborne virus would look like, and the subsequent zombie apocalypse that is derived from such a virus. (The series is realistic compared to standard zombie fare.) It's a fun read for anyone who is interested.

Last edited by james0246; 2013-04-18 at 13:58.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:14   Link #107
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
It's not even soldiers. For a novel that was released in 2006, Brooks vastly underestimates the sheer amount of ammunition and guns owned by regular citizens, and when you add militia members, and then the Reserves, National Guard, police, etc, it becomes quickly apparent that any form of shambling zombie apocalypse would be routed in weeks or at most months (depending on the virus and how it is spread). The greater fear would be if the virus is communicable to other mammals (zombie Bambi will f*ck you up), and whether it is present in all humans only to be activated upon death.
Pretty much. And that's not even accounting for the fact that civillians armed with golf clubs and baseball bats have pretty good odds against zombies prior to them reaching horde levels. Zombies have a pretty bum reproductive odds. Their sole method of reproduction is hunting their greatest predator. It'd be like antelope having to kill lions before they could reproduce.


Zombie fiction is tricky. On one hand you need a threat that can topple civilizations...that small bands of plucky under equipped survivors can overcome.Zombie fiction is tricky. On one hand you need a threat that can topple civilizations...that small bands of plucky under equipped survivors can overcome.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:04   Link #108
Sumeragi
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Apparently people believe too much in guns and humanity. Given how people panicked during SARS, you think the masses would be that smart to keep calm and carry on when there is a supposedly zombie virus floating around?

Humans are ultimately both smart and brainless. It's something we always have to keep in mind.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:10   Link #109
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Apparently people believe too much in guns and humanity. Given how people panicked during SARS, you think the masses would be that smart to keep calm and carry on when there is a supposedly zombie virus floating around?

Humans are ultimately both smart and brainless. It's something we always have to keep in mind.
No but the governments moved pretty quickly to quarantine the area and bring it under control as soon as possible. AKA SARS and recently China's being hit by a new bird flu and the government's not taking any chances this time around.

The point being is that it shouldn't take too long for governments to clamp down nor be as incompetent as they've shown in the fics.

I would point out 28 days later where England for example was quaratined.

The only way for a Zombie outbreak to actually take over civilization would be like Highschool of the dead where it was a simulataneous outbreak caused by human means to even have a successful chance. So in other words there'd be multiple ground zeros. I'm assuming that's what happened in World War Z.

And most zombie fics make the military extremely incompetent that it's unbelievable. I mean Zombies being immune to tanks and helicopters and planes? Surely a napalm or fire bomb would burn everything to the ground. It even said that a tank's rounds would be useless because it goes through the zombies which is ridiculous. If a giant hole is blown through a zombie's torso I don't care how you argue it but there's absolutely no way a virus would enable a zombie to keep moving.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:13   Link #110
Sumeragi
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There were multiple ground zeros in WWZ, which people seem to be forgetting. The only difference was that it took some time for governments to catch on..... exactly what happened with SARS.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:23   Link #111
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
There were multiple ground zeros in WWZ, which people seem to be forgetting. The only difference was that it took some time for governments to catch on..... exactly what happened with SARS.
In World War Z China was Ground Zero where a boy was infected who later infected his village and then people went on to infect others. For this film from what I can gather from the trailer it just sponateously happened across the globe.

My point being is that even with SARS it didn't take long for the government to catch on and clamp down on it. Granted people died but the government still acted on it.

Heck like I said with the new flu that came after SARS a lot of governments decided they weren't going to take chances and clamped down on them ASAP.

For the Swine flu, the second an outbreak was detected many countries shut down down Mexico city and cancelled flights into and out of that area.

For the new bird flu the Chinese government went on a butcher spree on the birds as they didn't want to take any chances.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:58   Link #112
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^ As a person living in Vancouver at the time .. there were SARS cases that happened both there and in Toronto. Here's a timeline on SARS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin..._SARS_outbreak

Now just imagine something even more virulent and causes people to run after you in a bitey fashion!
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Old 2013-04-18, 17:01   Link #113
GDB
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Apparently people believe too much in guns and humanity. Given how people panicked during SARS, you think the masses would be that smart to keep calm and carry on when there is a supposedly zombie virus floating around?

Humans are ultimately both smart and brainless. It's something we always have to keep in mind.
People aren't going to start attacking others in an attempt to rip them apart and eat them when they have SARS. They will if they're zombies. First time it happens, people would retaliate. You're comparing oranges to rotten apples and acting like they'd be the same.
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Old 2013-04-18, 17:44   Link #114
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
People aren't going to start attacking others in an attempt to rip them apart and eat them when they have SARS. They will if they're zombies. First time it happens, people would retaliate. You're comparing oranges to rotten apples and acting like they'd be the same.
That's the part where you overestimate people: Most of humanity do not have the will to retaliate even when faced with death, as has been the case in every war so far. Humans are fundamentally weak, and when faced with something that goes against what they know, they will break down.
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Old 2013-04-18, 17:55   Link #115
GDB
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's the part where you overestimate people: Most of humanity do not have the will to retaliate even when faced with death, as has been the case in every war so far. Humans are fundamentally weak, and when faced with something that goes against what they know, they will break down.
And you base this off of... what, exactly? In fact, using your own "war" references, the only time retaliation is not at least attempted is when submitting has a chance of survival. Otherwise, they fight back. Or are you trying to imply that Germany rules the world twice over?
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Old 2013-04-18, 18:17   Link #116
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
^ As a person living in Vancouver at the time .. there were SARS cases that happened both there and in Toronto. Here's a timeline on SARS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin..._SARS_outbreak

Now just imagine something even more virulent and causes people to run after you in a bitey fashion!
Pretty sure that once we see people stumbling and crawlign and biting the government and military will act upon it pretty quickly.

Like I said, the Chinese learned the hard way from SARS and have cleaned up their act quite a bit. Most governments these days refuse to take any chances now and the second an outbreak is detected they're on it right away.

Again, nothing is perfect but the fact that the governments including WHO acted as soon as they got the reports means that they are set for viral outbreaks or at least have continginecies. And again, if this virus spreads by bite well that's the worse kind of way to spread any disease. I mean we have rabies but you don't see the entire planet or entire species wiped out.

Quote:
That's the part where you overestimate people: Most of humanity do not have the will to retaliate even when faced with death, as has been the case in every war so far. Humans are fundamentally weak, and when faced with something that goes against what they know, they will break down.
Fight or flight response. It's very simple.

As the Romans say, "don't ever corner a man unless you want to see just how well he can fight."

The initial shock will be severe but afterwards people will overcome.

And I just don't see the military being as incompetent as what they make in the zombie literature at all.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:49   Link #117
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's the part where you overestimate people: Most of humanity do not have the will to retaliate even when faced with death, as has been the case in every war so far. Humans are fundamentally weak, and when faced with something that goes against what they know, they will break down.
Most people don't need to retaliate. They need to like, walk away at a brisk pace. I don't think I'm putting too much faith in humanity by assuming most people could evade a sloth on an open street.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:51   Link #118
Seitsuki
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I dunno, man. They'll probably be too busy taking pictures and posting to Twitter.
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:53   Link #119
Roger Rambo
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I dunno, man. They'll probably be too busy taking pictures and posting to Twitter.
You can't walk and take pictures at the same time?
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Old 2013-04-18, 19:54   Link #120
Seitsuki
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You have that much faith in humanity? >_>
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