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Old 2013-05-07, 08:14   Link #321
csuree
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Well i think it is enough people that know about the truth of the confession.
the service club members, Hayato and Miura will surely not let this slide.....even if Hayato and Miura will choose to ignore the aftermath, Yukino, Yui maybe Hiratsuka sensei too will do something about it......

As Hachiman's self sacrificial methods look like they are a habit and they are increasingly taking their toll on all the members especially Hachiman they need to stop him or he will ruin his life at one of those sacrifices.....

Also it came to my mind as I was preparing lunch......if... Yui abandons Hachiman, then he will win because he will say that: "see, I told you she was being nice because she was pitying me."
If this happens Hachiman will lose all the hopes he had for a normal relationship in any way(friendship or love) because he will always have in mind that they are trying to get close to him because they pity him.....this is the darkness I was mentioning a few posts earlier.
Losing trust in anybody and eventually it will become a sad/bad ending.

I really hope this will not be the case.
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Last edited by csuree; 2013-05-07 at 08:30.
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Old 2013-05-07, 08:42   Link #322
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This is the first time 8man do something big right and to top it he do it for someone else even if the result is very destructive. Someone need to give 8man a blow to the face right now.

All of this happened because 8man personality and how he view of life. At least we need 1 character that can also identify his/her self to 8man. If someone can prove that what 8man said or thinking is wrong then all of this will never happen. I hope 1 of the character will keep 8man in check before he do something again or introduce a character with a positive personality (not hayato, a pure positive man) who can put up with 8man personality.

just imagine a new character with a complete different philosophy than 8man's philosophy. Someone who can always argue back to 8man if he do something that will hurt both he and his friend.
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:09   Link #323
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As far as i know there is already a character who does that.. in fact there are 2:
Yukinoshita Yukino and Hiratsuka Shizuka sensei....
so a new character will be a bit too much....

also about the competition between Yukino and Hikki is there something said?... like Hikki is in the lead or Yukino...
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:11   Link #324
terribad
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Thanks a lot ice breaker it's good to see multiple interpretations popping up. I also like that the novels are still ambiguous at this stage.

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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
That isn't possible because everyone (Service club + Hayato's clique) understands that confession is fake and the true purpose of it, no one would make fun of him for that confession, and she wouldn't have been angry if Hachiman only did that to stop Tobe. Yukino, Yui, Hachiman and Hayato (and possibly Miura) are the only ones who knows about the Yui thing.
Before I say anything I would like to make clear that I'm not a shipper of any pairing.

Yukino said:

"...I can't say why, but it irritates me a lot. But I really do hate the way you handle things." (Paste Bin Summary)

If the indirect rejection was reason, I think Yukino would understand why. There is one reason why I'm ignoring the mundane interpretation of "I can't say why." That is because I remember other translations saying she can't say why because she can't understand why as opposed to because Yui and Co is there. But I tend to extrapolate with intelligent characters so I suppose, with my interpretation, I'm expecting some profound reason.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an opposing argument I think Hachiman isn't necessarily romantically closer to Yui. It's been established since episode 5 that Hachiman is weak to nice girls. In addition didn't he say to Ebina to stop saying nice things else he'll fall in love with her. So perhaps he's just weak to kindness from cute girls rather Yui in particualar [two previous confessions may be other examples]. Him not wanting to see Yui smile could be because he's afraid of falling for the nice girl trap again. However he likely knows that he won't get hurt at this point, perhaps it's his pride and subtle fear which is holding him back.

About the resistance to have friends thing. I'd say it's a little different. Hachiman wants to resist change and his self-isolation is just a consequence. At some point in time he was shafted with isolation and he decided to stick with it - good and bad. Living through isolation he came up with his philosophies and what have you. Though he may want friends, he prioritises his status quo. If so his reluctance to acknowledge or seek for friends speaks volumes for his dedication. As for why he values status quo so much. One reason is because it's predictable so he can minimise pain. Another reason is because he's pessimistic and doesn't see himself ever changing for the better or at least moving up the social ladder. He also prides himself on his knowledge and experience from his lonesome life if he changes that knowledge looses some worth. If he does highly value status quo, the speech that change is inevitable is a direct contradiction of his desire to not change. So he concludes he's the one liar to rule of them all.

Last edited by terribad; 2013-05-07 at 10:38.
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:54   Link #325
icebreaker
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To make this clear I never said that Yui is romantically closer to Hachiman, considering Hachiman tramples all over her flags. Hachiman has some personality problems to solve before he can date anyone. I'm not a shipper of any pair either.
My translation for that sentence is "I can't explain it clearly, and it irritates me a lot." And right after that it seems like Yui wants to stop her from talking. It seems quite clear that she was angry for Yui's sake. Yukino might/will have flags later on, but this doesn't seem to be one.
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:27   Link #326
terribad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
To make this clear I never said that Yui is romantically closer to Hachiman, considering Hachiman tramples all over her flags. Hachiman has some personality problems to solve before he can date anyone. I'm not a shipper of any pair either.
My translation for that sentence is "I can't explain it clearly, and it irritates me a lot." And right after that it seems like Yui wants to stop her from talking. It seems quite clear that she was angry for Yui's sake. Yukino might/will have flags later on, but this doesn't seem to be one.
The romantically closer thing was more of a general comment on an impression rather than you - my bad. I should have put the sentence under the dashed line.

I said that I wasn't shipper just because I really sounded like one reading through my post (s). I haven't assumed anyone else was one so far because I didn't really care. Shippers in themselves can be good or bad depending how they conduct their agenda. So before I make any evaluation, I have to wait till I know what type of shipper it is. I don't care because I haven't been paying attention so I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt.

With that translation it does seem to be the case. But again I wonder why she couldn't clearly explain it. Does she have problems explaining herself in the past with examples other than stutters? Sure Muira and Co were there but she could have just said something vague like Yui. Knowing her she could have improvised a statement not just vague but clever too. Or is it simply because she never had a friend to feel angry for? But then again she it's not like she hasn't been angry before - Hachiman will tell you. I guess my reluctance to fully accept this is because of extrapolation once more. If someone like Yukino is lost for words, I felt surely the reason must be something profound or complex. I don't have an inkling of a clue as to what I was looking for though. Perhaps it was always some unattainable horizon.
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:48   Link #327
icebreaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terribad View Post
With that translation it does seem to be the case. But again I wonder why she couldn't clearly explain it. Does she have problems explaining herself in the past with examples other than stutters? Sure Muira and Co were there but she could have just said something vague like Yui. Knowing her she could have improvised a statement not just vague but clever too. Or is it simply because she never had a friend to feel angry for? But then again she it's not like she hasn't been angry before - Hachiman will tell you. I guess my reluctance to fully accept this is because of extrapolation once more. If someone like Yukino is lost for words, I felt surely the reason must be something profound or complex. I don't have an inkling of a clue as to what I was looking for though. Perhaps it was always some unattainable horizon.
Actually when she said that, only the service club members are left. I think the reason she can't explain it clearly - is that she doesn't know whether he has done the right thing or not. If what Yukino and Hayato said were referring to the same thing, one can deduce that Yukino has rejected Hayato - and you can see how their relationship has went, as what's broken can't be fixed. She was angry for Yui's sake, but at the same time I think she understands Hachiman's logic as the service club could possibly just drift apart due to a rejection. And I think she treasures this service club as well.
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Old 2013-05-07, 11:03   Link #328
terribad
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
Actually when she said that, only the service club members are left. I think the reason she can't explain it clearly - is that she doesn't know whether he has done the right thing or not. If what Yukino and Hayato said were referring to the same thing, one can deduce that Yukino has rejected Hayato - and you can see how their relationship has went, as what's broken can't be fixed. She was angry for Yui's sake, but at the same time I think she understands Hachiman's logic as the service club could possibly just drift apart due to a rejection. And I think she treasures this service club as well.
It was just the 3 mains that would explain the final illustration.

You're explanation now feels more along the lines of what I was looking for as there were multiple conflicting factors affecting her decision. With that I'm somewhat satisfied and I'll believe because I can't think of anything better. As an aside has Yukino ever been really conflicted before this point?

I think I might have some bias or focus towards complex relationships, apparent or otherwise, and that's why I seem like a Yukino x Hachiman shipper for now. Or perhaps I'm being paranoid and no one thinks that or cares. Am I needlessly caring about my self-image concerning others? If so Hachiman will probably rip me a new one.
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Old 2013-05-07, 13:00   Link #329
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well I can say there is nothing wrong with being a shipper.....We are here because we like the series....

There is a universal law in this world: When you like something you tend to do it more and more; By doing this you purposefully create situations where you can do what you like.
Same with this thread... we like the series we document ourselves about it immerse ourselves....
You probably like Yukinon a lot more than the other girls that is why you want to make that relationship happen even if there is no hint to it.

It is hard to view a favourite objectively.....it requires a lot of effort.
I, myself am a Yui x Hikki fan so I tend to advance it that way, but because my false presumptions that happened about relationships in real life, I tend to stay at the sidelines and view the situations from a different angle. It gives a new perspective, trust me....it is hard but try to view it from the outsider's point of view.

anyway, Yukinon seems too mysterious about her comment, but nevermind, it will happen somehow.
The real problem lies within: Hachiman has exactly 3 options after these events:
1. He continues like this and the service club will be alienated and eventually they fall apart.
2. He talks this thing out with Yui, he knows her feelings and by saying that he is not ready to go to another level he can get a status quo without losing friends / or accepts her confession and have a happier life.
3. He outright refuses her confession and feelings, he will feel miserable, she will feel miserable, they will not go to club, and they fall apart.

Out of these options Hachiman would go with number 2 I think....but the first variant, by delaying their relationship. Or he can just self-destroy his already non-existent reputation by doing such a stupid thing that makes him the most hated person alive in that school.

Honestly I hope he will get his act together and do the right thing.
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Old 2013-05-07, 14:57   Link #330
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
^
You mean Tobe also understand the purpose of that instead of being dense?
Tobe understood Hachiman's actions immediately and now sees him as a rival.
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Old 2013-05-07, 15:04   Link #331
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With how slow character development is in this series, I wonder how long it would take before we reach the end. High school doesn't last forever.
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Old 2013-05-07, 15:12   Link #332
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Why would Tobe see him as a rival when Hachi's not interested to the girl he likes?
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Old 2013-05-07, 15:38   Link #333
blackwhite67
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Why would Tobe see him as a rival when Hachi's not interested to the girl he likes?
Well, I didn't quite understand that part either, but that was what the summary said.

Quote:
To complete Hayato, Tobe and Ebina's request, 8man was forced to resort to a single choice. He confesses to Ebina before Tobe did. Ebina reacted immediately and tells 8man that she doesn't want a boyfriend and dumped him. The dense Tobe finally knew what's up and got frustrated (not angry) at 8man though he now treats 8man as a rival.
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Old 2013-05-07, 16:12   Link #334
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Well, I didn't quite understand that part either, but that was what the summary said.

Tbh, I think that meant he understood he has no chance because Ebina doesn't want a BF and not that 8man sacrificed himself for the team.
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Old 2013-05-07, 19:25   Link #335
csuree
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Yeah Tobe still does not know that this confession was a fake... he thinks that Hikki is after Ebina that is why he is treating him as a rival....

And about character development....well since the series started in 2011 it is not that old ......
I might say that it is not surprising that the development is slow because in this universe only a few months went by, (I estimate around 5-8 months at the very best)(I mean it was start of school-year around March-April and cultural festivals are in September and because they went for a trip in volume seven that might be at the maximum early October - because of the weather).....
Even in real life your personality does not go 180 in a few months....and consider Hikki is a stubborn man he changes even slower.
It is totally realistic....

SAO spans over 3 years in 13 volumes and from volume 4 onwards every volume is only depicting a few days only.....in my opinion the pacing in Oregairu it is completely reasonable.

Even if high school doesn't last forever if the same pacing rhytm remains(6 volumes = 6 months)...... they might graduate at volume 20+ if the series will go until then.
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Old 2013-05-07, 22:13   Link #336
icebreaker
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Originally Posted by NeutralZero View Post
Why would Tobe see him as a rival when Hachi's not interested to the girl he likes?
He said "Hikitani-kun, sorry, I won't lose"
When he said "I won't lose" I think he meant "I won't give up on Ebina" instead of "I won't lose to you Hikitani".
So I'm interpreting it as "Hikitani-kun, sorry (even after you trying to go through all the effort to make me give up), I won't lose"
There's almost no way he won't be angry if he didn't understand what Hachiman's action means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
SAO spans over 3 years in 13 volumes and from volume 4 onwards every volume is only depicting a few days only.....in my opinion the pacing in Oregairu it is completely reasonable.
The author's note in Volume 7 said something on the lines of "we are finally reaching the second half". So we can guess that it will end around Volume 12. If you have realized SAO is a web novel. Everything has been written already, they just need to do some editing before releasing it, so they are able to do it at that pace. Only Kamachi can do a novel at the pace of a release per 3 months. Kawahara is actually working on Accel World.

Last edited by icebreaker; 2013-05-07 at 22:33.
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Old 2013-05-08, 00:33   Link #337
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How many times has Hachiman shot down Yui's flags now? I'm surprised she hasn't given after he rejected her on the field trip way back.

I also find it hypocritical that Hachiman gets upset at Hayato for preserving the status quo when Hachiman does the same as well. By making himself look bad, he keeps Yui from getting too close, and he stays unpopular.
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Old 2013-05-08, 00:36   Link #338
icebreaker
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
How many times has Hachiman shot down Yui's flags now? I'm surprised she hasn't given after he rejected her on the field trip way back.

I also find it hypocritical that Hachiman gets upset at Hayato for preserving the status quo when Hachiman does the same as well. By making himself look bad, he keeps Yui from getting too close, and he stays unpopular.
He wasn't upset at Hayato preserving the status quo. He wouldn't have been upset if Hayato reproached or scorned him. He was upset at getting pitied by Hayato, as he knows that his selfish actions doesn't deserve pity.
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:28   Link #339
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I always thought it was strange at first.. A simple fake confession like that seems to bring much more negative situation that what it should be to the club. It makes much more sense when the underlying meanings are taken to the equation.

As for Tobe, I also can't see how he wouldn't be angry if he thought that hachiman betrayed him (which is also one of my confusion when I read the spoilers).

For Hayato... people seems to think that he's evil by trying to egg Hachiman, but I still can't buy it. I can't really say it well, but I think 'evil' person wouldn't end up like him.

..goddamit, I thought high school students are all straight forward and speaks what's on their mind without subtle meanings like this
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Old 2013-05-08, 01:58   Link #340
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For Hayato... people seems to think that he's evil by trying to egg Hachiman, but I still can't buy it. I can't really say it well, but I think 'evil' person wouldn't end up like him.
I was first surprised when Hachiman grouped "Hayato's pity" and "Yukino's reproach" together. Are they even talking about the same thing? Isn't Hayato talking about Tobe-Ebina? Until I realized that they were both talking about Yui.

In Hayato and Hachiman's conversation, Hachiman understood that Hayato is referring to Yui when he told him "What would you do?" And when he apologized "Even though I knew you would do it that way.. Sorry", he should be referring to him speaking about his personal experience that "What's broken can't be fixed" which he might have thought, made Hachiman came to that conclusion.
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