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Old 2013-04-28, 05:34   Link #461
Von Himmel
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Though it doesn't seem like there's much of reason to limit the space in that school outside of it's part of there prestige that only very few make it in the first place.
That's the point If there's a limit then there's a point in what he's doing.. but there's nothing like that. The graduates are basically those with skills to back it up but there's nowhere that it was mentioned that there's a cap for people who can graduate there.

Basically what I wanted to say that it's perfectly reasonable if the examiners hold a hellish exams for the student and expel those without the ability to pass it, but actually trying to cut down the number of student whether he/she has the ability or not is something that he shouldn't have done.
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Old 2013-04-28, 07:13   Link #462
aohige
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It comes down to "cooking test should be testing one's ability to cook, not his/her ability to beat others in a bargain sale shopping spree slugfest"

The four-eyes is unreasonable. Period.

She improvised the situation she was forced into, and while that may have gone against his test, the fact is he shouldn't force people into that situation with prerequisite unrelated to cooking or skills in determining ingredients in the first place. Therefore, the responsibility falls back on him, just like Soma pointed out.

Y'all are making it unnecessarily complicated.
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Old 2013-04-28, 07:38   Link #463
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That's true. Ben-to does not equate to Mister Ajikko.
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Old 2013-04-28, 07:53   Link #464
kakakka
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I am with Soma's side at this one. There are times at work when you just have no choice but to improvise. And of course, the result also have to be good; practice and knowledge of the field needs be there for that to work. I think Megumi did a great job at that, there should be no reason for her to fail this outright. And the glasses guy's reasoning is really shallow (not even relating to taste, texture or anything); how can I side to a guy like that?
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Old 2013-04-28, 08:17   Link #465
bones
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Originally Posted by kakakka View Post
I am with Soma's side at this one. There are times at work when you just have no choice but to improvise. And of course, the result also have to be good; practice and knowledge of the field needs be there for that to work. I think Megumi did a great job at that, there should be no reason for her to fail this outright. And the glasses guy's reasoning is really shallow (not even relating to taste, texture or anything); how can I side to a guy like that?
I think that his test criteria is:

1: Get the best ingredients for the recipe
2: Follow the recipe perfectly
3: Must be delicious

Megumi failed first and second but passed the third objective. Although, I do think that it would have been better if the examiner had explained all this beforehand.
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Old 2013-04-28, 08:18   Link #466
DName
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Mangaka makes us hate that Alumni so that Souma's win would feel more enjoyable. (One piece logic (only seen up to long island)) But this test seriously was plain nonsense. The best of the bests school and even being with skills does not guarantee that you will graduate... Let's say I'm cooking at the level of Souma's father but I'm very slow (but fast enough to make a dish in time) and because of this stupidity I can't pass this test? Bull****...
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Old 2013-04-28, 08:48   Link #467
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What I meant by the post was that the atmosphere was already set to be fairly cutthroat and people could be expelled quite easily. Now I'm not opposed to the protagonists rebelling against the system(in fact, that would be more in line with my beliefs in the first place). However within the context of the story it just seems like a case where the protagonists don't care unless it affects them. Now granted I'm sure Souma is sticking up for her because she genuinely did a good job, but I guess I just want some consistency with whether people should just overcome the high standards or redefine the standards of cooking.
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Old 2013-04-28, 10:33   Link #468
kakakka
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I think it's normal for people to stand-up for their friends and not care about others unless it affects them. I don't know if there're people who view others with same importance just because (We like to think that way, but in the process, we start to think of ways other people relate to us, so it goes in full circle).
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Old 2013-04-28, 13:57   Link #469
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post
I think that his test criteria is:

1: Get the best ingredients for the recipe
2: Follow the recipe perfectly
3: Must be delicious

Megumi failed first and second but passed the third objective. Although, I do think that it would have been better if the examiner had explained all this beforehand.
#1 is a fallacy because in this case the students aren't preparing their own ingredients - they're taking what was already provided for them.

Had this been like Souma's trial and Megumi picked bad ingredients, then there would be no one to blame but herself.



Megumi should pass #2, because even if she used a different cooking method, she still made the same meal. If/when they become professional chefs, the people they serve aren't going to be so pedantic about how their food is made. It's not like Megumi made something entirely different like a cake or a salad.
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Old 2013-04-28, 16:53   Link #470
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
#1 is a fallacy because in this case the students aren't preparing their own ingredients - they're taking what was already provided for them.

Had this been like Souma's trial and Megumi picked bad ingredients, then there would be no one to blame but herself.



Megumi should pass #2, because even if she used a different cooking method, she still made the same meal. If/when they become professional chefs, the people they serve aren't going to be so pedantic about how their food is made. It's not like Megumi made something entirely different like a cake or a salad.
TBF what she made did have a different taste, which is the only real criticism, though obviously that fact it still tastes good is an achievemnt.
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Old 2013-04-28, 21:51   Link #471
Algester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bones View Post
I think that his test criteria is:

1: Get the best ingredients for the recipe
2: Follow the recipe perfectly
3: Must be delicious

Megumi failed first and second but passed the third objective. Although, I do think that it would have been better if the examiner had explained all this beforehand.
but if your really a true cook you have to innovate and be creative with your handed down recipes as to surprise customers as well, but that would'nt make a good dramatic build up... but that's me, hence I once had a Philosophy that Cooks and Chefs are the Doctors of Food... or somewhat similar
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Old 2013-04-28, 21:56   Link #472
bones
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The thing is all the students are good cooks, give them a recipe, acceptable ingredients and there's no way they will fail. That's not what the examiner wants, he wants to get rid of some of them.
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Old 2013-04-28, 22:00   Link #473
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by bones View Post
The thing is all the students are good cooks, give them a recipe, acceptable ingredients and there's no way they will fail. That's not what the examiner wants, he wants to get rid of some of them.
No they're not. Where would you get this baseless assumption? The several students that Erina tested have shown to make mistakes.

The examiner gave them a time limit and a recipe, and Megumi followed it to the best of her ability with what she had, taking no extra time to do it. I understand it's the chef's responsibility to procure the best ingredients possible, but when you're working with limited resources, that's the fault of the examiner.

Her food was well-prepared in a timely manner and stuck with the prompt. She also had the eye to tell which ingredients were acceptable and which are not. The examiner has no reason to expel her other than being physically weaker than a mob of panicking men. His reasons for failing her are as petty as Erina failing Souma's entrance test just because he set off her tsundere side.
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Old 2013-04-28, 22:07   Link #474
larethian
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I think this manga beats Yakitate!! Japan because the reactions are mostly ecchi when girls are doing them , and not done by a man in his 30s. Though I still consider this top mid-tier, and kind of surprised that it got placed 3rd in the ToC a few weeks back. I guess readers are looking for something different (yet ecchi) huh? On the other hand, Haikyuu doesn't seem too interesting to me, am I the only one hoping it gets canceled? (it doesn't even have a thread here)

Looking forward to the Shokugeki with that Alumni asshole.
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Old 2013-04-28, 22:21   Link #475
bones
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
No they're not. Where would you get this baseless assumption? The several students that Erina tested have shown to make mistakes.

The examiner gave them a time limit and a recipe, and Megumi followed it to the best of her ability with what she had, taking no extra time to do it. I understand it's the chef's responsibility to procure the best ingredients possible, but when you're working with limited resources, that's the fault of the examiner.

Her food was well-prepared in a timely manner and stuck with the prompt. She also had the eye to tell which ingredients were acceptable and which are not. The examiner has no reason to expel her other than being physically weaker than a mob of panicking men. His reasons for failing her are as petty as Erina failing Souma's entrance test just because he set off her tsundere side.
The students that Erina tested never made it into the academy, the ones that passed her test were enrolled into the academy so yes they are good cooks who are aiming to become chefs. It's not a baseless assumption.

The examiner provided ingredients and the recipe, given that he wants to make people fail, he can only mess with the ingredients or the recipe
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Old 2013-04-28, 22:26   Link #476
yuzen003
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I understand it's the chef's responsibility to procure the best ingredients possible, but when you're working with limited resources, that's the fault of the examiner.
Just a theory developed by watching too much Iron Chef, but the "limited resources" aspect is probably one of the main points of this test. If a chef opens their own restaurant they will generally need to be involved in procurement. There are finite ingredients available and multiple restaurants will be buying supplies from the same limited pool. A passive or unmotivated chef will not be able to get top quality produce, meat or seafood which is an important aspect of running a restaurant.

Megumi was really slow/passive in a situation where one of the ground rules was consider everyone here your enemy, with the subtext that they are competing against each other. The method of elimination was sort of contrived as if the glasses guy had simply limited the amount of ingredients so there was only enough for 70% of the class she would have failed for the exact same reason and Souma would have had no grounds to save her.
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Old 2013-04-28, 22:57   Link #477
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
Just a theory developed by watching too much Iron Chef, but the "limited resources" aspect is probably one of the main points of this test. If a chef opens their own restaurant they will generally need to be involved in procurement. There are finite ingredients available and multiple restaurants will be buying supplies from the same limited pool. A passive or unmotivated chef will not be able to get top quality produce, meat or seafood which is an important aspect of running a restaurant.

Megumi was really slow/passive in a situation where one of the ground rules was consider everyone here your enemy, with the subtext that they are competing against each other. The method of elimination was sort of contrived as if the glasses guy had simply limited the amount of ingredients so there was only enough for 70% of the class she would have failed for the exact same reason and Souma would have had no grounds to save her.
Then the test should have been broken up into phases - the procuring ingredients phase, and the actual cooking phase. Instead, it was all condensed into one as if only the final result mattered.

Megumi's results were good, even admitted by the alumni chef. She did not take any extra time to prepare her meal either, so the fact that Souma does have grounds to save her at all is very telling that the test is flawed. The problem here is that the message the alumni is giving off is very close to "you did better than I expected, but I didn't want that to happen so you fail anyway," which is very similar to how Erina failed Souma because he pissed her off.
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Old 2013-04-29, 00:23   Link #478
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
Just a theory developed by watching too much Iron Chef, but the "limited resources" aspect is probably one of the main points of this test. If a chef opens their own restaurant they will generally need to be involved in procurement. There are finite ingredients available and multiple restaurants will be buying supplies from the same limited pool. A passive or unmotivated chef will not be able to get top quality produce, meat or seafood which is an important aspect of running a restaurant.

Megumi was really slow/passive in a situation where one of the ground rules was consider everyone here your enemy, with the subtext that they are competing against each other. The method of elimination was sort of contrived as if the glasses guy had simply limited the amount of ingredients so there was only enough for 70% of the class she would have failed for the exact same reason and Souma would have had no grounds to save her.
If teaching them about 'limited resources' was the point, then he wouldn't have failed Megumi, since flexibly dealing with problems is also part of being a chef.

My opinion is that the whole reason behind what he did is because he enjoys having the power to expel students. He didn't care that Megumi managed to make the dish even with bad ingredients: that tells me the point wasn't to teach a lesson, it was to make sure someone failed. The only reason he could want that is because he wanted to expel someone, and he wanted to do it in a way that the student would suffer beforehand.

If he just wanted to expel someone, all he had to do was make the test so hard that there was no way that everyone would pass, or he could use some arbitrary pretext, like the guy that was expelled for wearing scented shampoo. Yet he chose to sabotage them from the start so that the people unlucky enough to get bad ingredients would give up as soon as they saw it and spend the rest of time worrying. That's also why he gave that cryptic warning, so he could laugh at the people who would get the bad ingredients as being idiots that didn't listen.

Bonus points if they complain to him about it, so he can explain it and arrogantly look down on them.
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Old 2013-04-29, 17:13   Link #479
yuzen003
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Not all tests have the same criteria. The previous test where they had to gather ingredients was a test that stressed flexibility and creative thinking, they can make anything they want and the final evaluation was as long as the dish was good they passed. This test has everyone in a single enclosed space, everyone is supposed to make the same dish, and everyone has the same access to supplies. There is a single "correct" answer and they are being tested on if they can reach that answer. Luck really isn't a factor here since everyone had the exact same access to the produce, anyone with the observation skills could have seen the cauliflower situation and prioritized that before the other ingredients. If Megumi had done so she likely would have got a good one even if she isn't aggressive enough, but she left it for last.

Compare it to an essay based exam versus a math test. An essay will be graded based on if the judge likes it and as long as it is not a complete mess it is entirely subjective the other is exacting and you are either correct or you are incorrect.

I do think the glasses guy is an ass, but the test itself isn't necessarily a bad test.

Last edited by yuzen003; 2013-04-29 at 17:25.
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Old 2013-04-29, 17:44   Link #480
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by yuzen003 View Post
Not all tests have the same criteria. The previous test where they had to gather ingredients was a test that stressed flexibility and creative thinking, they can make anything they want and the final evaluation was as long as the dish was good they passed. This test has everyone in a single enclosed space, everyone is supposed to make the same dish, and everyone has the same access to supplies. There is a single "correct" answer and they are being tested on if they can reach that answer. Luck really isn't a factor here since everyone had the exact same access to the produce, anyone with the observation skills could have seen the cauliflower situation and prioritized that before the other ingredients. If Megumi had done so she likely would have got a good one even if she isn't aggressive enough, but she left it for last.

Compare it to an essay based exam versus a math test. An essay will be graded based on if the judge likes it and as long as it is not a complete mess it is entirely subjective the other is exacting and you are either correct or you are incorrect.

I do think the glasses guy is an ass, but the test itself isn't necessarily a bad test.
I don't think a portion of the class would be prevented from choosing the right answers in a math test.
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