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Old 2013-05-06, 19:09   Link #861
Vegard Aune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
Getting pissed off with a film because it didn't live up to your personal expectation is weird... at least in the way you put it. If I remember correctly you are one the those who were writing about how bad it will be before watching it, and then continued about how bad it was after watching it only for completely different reasons. You realize that to an outside observer, this looks like that you only watched the film in order to give you a basis for bashing it, instead of watching something that you could enjoy... which is fine from time to time, everyone needs to let out some negativity where it doesn't matter.
In all fairness though... his entirely different criticisms after actually seeing the movie are quite valid. I mean, I personally don't think it's a bad movie, but it was a pretty jarring departure from the previous two Rebuild-films (which I absolutely loved) and easily the weakest installment in this movie-series so far.
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Old 2013-05-06, 19:42   Link #862
AmeNoJaku
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
In all fairness though... his entirely different criticisms after actually seeing the movie are quite valid. I mean, I personally don't think it's a bad movie, but it was a pretty jarring departure from the previous two Rebuild-films (which I absolutely loved) and easily the weakest installment in this movie-series so far.
These are two different things... Personally, I can appreciate their attempt at something new, whether it works out or not eventually. But it's not the time to make pompous assumption on this yet. It is though a totally different thing flaming a film just for the heck of it, even before watching it... the least this can accomplish is to ruin one's own enjoyment... inevitably afterwards he will struggle to find something bad to say about it.

In any case, I have been following the thread here since I watched the film myself last year, and how should I put it, a lot of judgements both for and against the "goodness" of the third film were made before watching it... and the only reason many watched it, is their need to prove to an anonymous crowd that they were correct in baseless guesses. I don't know you guys might call this criticism, but I don't... I expect critics to be impartial and have constructive arguments, instead of looking how they can pretend to be "logic prophets".

I enjoyed watching the film, discussing it with my friends afterwards, comparing it with the previous films and the original... it looked great, it didn't deviate a lot from the TV (well a lot less then we expected), but being a film its story could have been simpler and more self-contained. None of us has re-watched it since, but I think all of us ended up buying a figurine with the new character designs (Kaworu in my case)

EDIT: Oh! and I was not talking about Reckoner specifically before... it's just that he falls into the category "It will suck, therefore I will watch it so I can rip on it"... there are many like her, that do this year in and out and it's quite popular... say that Tenka Seiha blog (well in more jesting mood) So no offense Reckoner, et al. I just find the way you come to your conclusion totally biased, if not a little masochistic
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:10   Link #863
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
Getting pissed off with a film because it didn't live up to your personal expectation is weird... at least in the way you put it. If I remember correctly you are one the those who were writing about how bad it will be before watching it, and then continued about how bad it was after watching it only for completely different reasons. You realize that to an outside observer, this looks like that you only watched the film in order to give you a basis for bashing it, instead of watching something that you could enjoy... which is fine from time to time, everyone needs to let out some negativity where it doesn't matter.
Uh, yeah. After Rebuild 2.0 I had literally no faith going into this movie that it was going to be any good. My personal reasons for watching it anyways? Evangelion is probably the most important anime franchise to me as an anime fan to begin with, and I probably wouldn't be here today if it were not for that show. Thus, I have a stake in Rebuild's legacy.

Furthermore, I am still legitimately interested in seeing what Anno's ultimate purpose in Rebuild is. I thought 3.0 would give some insight on that finally, but nope, got to wait for 4.0. It's just reaffirming my belief that he sold out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
Dunno, made sense to others... but let me rephrase it for you:
  1. TV Eva never needed movies to explain or extend its plot and characters
  2. Nevertheless, fans wanted more Eva
  3. Producers offered new Eva, but tried to maintain the original concept
  4. Which confused even more fans, who keep asking more questions, while buying (or in case of pirated version, promote) more products...

... there is even a group of fans that keep watching even though they hate it passionately, right?
By films are you referring to End of Evangelion? Or Rebuild? Two different animals here. Rebuild's purpose is not entirely clear yet, and the more it goes on it just seems like a cash out rather than a more approachable version to the TV version in the modern era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
EDIT: Oh! and I was not talking about Reckoner specifically before... it's just that he falls into the category "It will suck, therefore I will watch it so I can rip on it"... there are many like her, that do this year in and out and it's quite popular... say that Tenka Seiha blog (well in more jesting mood) So no offense Reckoner, et al. I just find the way you come to your conclusion totally biased, if not a little masochistic
My stance was, 2.0 sucked therefore I have reason to believe 3.0 will suck too. I watched it and tried to keep an open mind, but it still sucked and not even for the reasons I was expecting to begin with.
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:21   Link #864
Lenneth4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
In all fairness though... his entirely different criticisms after actually seeing the movie are quite valid. I mean, I personally don't think it's a bad movie, but it was a pretty jarring departure from the previous two Rebuild-films (which I absolutely loved) and easily the weakest installment in this movie-series so far.
Weird
3.33 is the strongest movie to me

A great movie wich took all the risk needed to create something new and creative
I'm happy that a lot of fans quit the rebuild ship
It's time to them to (get the hell out) move on.

Thanks Anno
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:25   Link #865
solomon
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Mehhhhh, doing something new is GOOD (admirable and interesting), but you gotta do it RIGHT (make the story make sense). THAT'S the problem here.

Anyways, with how long the gap is between films, I completely forgot about the Rebuild junk until I heard there was a sub floating around a few weeks ago. Seriously this layover between films is MURDER.
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:34   Link #866
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
  1. TV Eva never needed movies to explain or extend its plot and characters
  2. Nevertheless, fans wanted more Eva
  3. Producers offered new Eva, but tried to maintain the original concept
  4. Which confused even more fans, who keep asking more questions, while buying (or in case of pirated version, promote) more products...
Unless by TV Eva you include End of Eva I decidedly disagree with this. The TV series left a lot of plot elements awkwardly hanging without a resolution.

End of Eva still left some questions unanswered but the plot elements were all given a proper closure. Even if some weren't really satisfying, it was still better than nothing.
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:43   Link #867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku View Post
In any case, I have been following the thread here since I watched the film myself last year, and how should I put it, a lot of judgements both for and against the "goodness" of the third film were made before watching it... and the only reason many watched it, is their need to prove to an anonymous crowd that they were correct in baseless guesses. I don't know you guys might call this criticism, but I don't... I expect critics to be impartial and have constructive arguments, instead of looking how they can pretend to be "logic prophets".
I don't consider that a very reasonable expectation at all. I don't disagree that people have put a lot more emotional stake then it is worth, but I don't see that as a very wrong thing. Expecting impartiality is just not going to happen on anyone's part.

The point isn't to write objective summaries of the movie. You're essentially saying that someone's reaction is wrong, and you're fine to believe that, but at least defend the series on its own merits rather than attempting to discredit people.

As for your logic prophet accusation, well, it only makes sense that someone should at least try to explain why they feel a certain way.

Anyhow, I don't really understand what's the problem with it. If people were saying it were wrong to like the movie, then sure, that's a problem. But that's not true, isn't it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Unless by TV Eva you include End of Eva I decidedly disagree with this. The TV series left a lot of plot elements awkwardly hanging without a resolution.

End of Eva still left some questions unanswered but the plot elements were all given a proper closure. Even if some weren't really satisfying, it was still better than nothing.
Well, EoE is the end of the series with the proper budget. TV ending is good, but that's hardly a way to end such a landmark series. ;]
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:47   Link #868
Guardian Enzo
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Personally I thought the TV ending closed things out in a way that was coherent and in-line with Anno's seeming mission from the start of the series, and if anything EoE confused the issue unnecessarily. If there's a reason Rebuild was "needed" apart from a commercial one, it's to clean up the mess EoE left behind.
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:51   Link #869
amaterasu4
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post

Well, EoE is the end of the series with the proper budget. TV ending is good, but that's hardly a way to end such a landmark series. ;]
I see EoE as the deserved ending of the TV series with a budget and some kind of an understandable context. The TV series' ending confused people in more than one way and EoE tried to make a sense of the 40 minutes of stock footage. The delivery was still confusing but it made a better sense since there was more to follow than just dialogues.
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Old 2013-05-06, 20:59   Link #870
solomon
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Well there were some plot elements I think left hanging, as to their ULTIMATE conclusion which End of EVA did it's own job of handling.

But for this movie saga so far, lack of proper 'splainin'.... even simple stuff like what are the Evas and what are the Angels, why IS Asuka so bitchy in the first place(only 50% because they touched on this in 2.0), what IS all that shit on the moon about? SELLE? Kaji? You could potentially have a BONANZA with new spins on this stuff versus the TV show yet........................blurp.........

Because of the LONG ASS gap between my watching TV EVA and (originally watching) rebuild I came as close as could be as to being a fresh newb to EVA in general, but looking back they provided a lot more explainations, internal logic and build up for a lot of important shit (Even the identity of the Angels/Evas in it's own convoluted fashion) which this batch of films DOESN'T ADDRESS......at least not yet.

So that opens up the theoritization of people like Sackett saying it's NOT a Remake which like I said is not a problem at all on it's own.......................................JUST DON'T SAY IN PRE RELEASE COVERAGE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A MORE COMPREHENSIBLE STORY, that's the main problem I have with the film, Anno is NOT making good on what he said this would be. And he isn't going into some abstract approach to previously established character development and narrative themes neither....

Just a fantastical 180 degree change in outlook just for the fuck of it with little (what is there is weak) versimilatude (Narrative logic).

Hehee, despite my issues with the film. I'm actually having FUN writing these critiques (almost more fun than watching the movies) cause I haven't engaged in stupid fan biovolating in a LONG TIME, brings back nostalgia of being a fresh eyed young whippersnapper of an anime fan .................................LOLOLOL........

(need a girlfriend)

Beforewarned, while I would like to end this needless cycle of a rant, I likely won't because it is the INTERNETZ and this is ANIMU therefore I am freed from the responsibility of carrying on doing something productive..............this is such a great place (Wants to make big smiley but can't make one work on his new Dell).
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:00   Link #871
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Personally I thought the TV ending closed things out in a way that was coherent and in-line with Anno's seeming mission from the start of the series, and if anything EoE confused the issue unnecessarily. If there's a reason Rebuild was "needed" apart from a commercial one, it's to clean up the mess EoE left behind.
I think the opposite.

Episodes 25 and 26 are more of an outline to the end-- a concept. It was true that it was handled in a very imaginative fashion as opposed to certain other people that run out of budget, but EoE left the content more grounded in reality, and for the most part the events of both parallel each other with EoE finishing the trailing part. I don't really think it left a mess. If anything, it wrapped up most of the character relations quite well.
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:05   Link #872
solomon
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No I don't think it a mess either, I LIKED the first ending and still do, but criticism WAS legit I mean you built up a MONOLITHIC mystery for like HALF A YEAR and just kinda let it fizzle out sorta.
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:15   Link #873
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Well I'm not going to stop watching Evangelion after 3.0. I might as well see it through to the end. And Maybe understand what Anno proving here. No matter what, some things won't change about how I feel towards the characters and such. But I'm no quitter. Maybe just maybe 4.0 might have some little light in that tunnel. I won't know until I wait for 4.0 and watching.
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:36   Link #874
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Personally I thought the TV ending closed things out in a way that was coherent and in-line with Anno's seeming mission from the start of the series, and if anything EoE confused the issue unnecessarily. If there's a reason Rebuild was "needed" apart from a commercial one, it's to clean up the mess EoE left behind.
I find this a strange view point to take considering that the TV series end and EoE are the exact same ending. If anything the TV series ending is what is confusing and EoE is what clarifies everything Anno was trying to tell in it.

Still I think both compliment each other quite well, and I don't think Rebuild was necessary to clean up any mess.
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:41   Link #875
Guardian Enzo
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I find this a strange view point to take considering that the TV series end and EoE are the exact same ending. If anything the TV series ending is what is confusing and EoE is what clarifies everything Anno was trying to tell in it.

Still I think both compliment each other quite well, and I don't think Rebuild was necessary to clean up any mess.
And I see the E of E ending as ladling a lot of unnecessary material on top of a TV ending that did exactly what it needed to do, and no more. Even if you believe the endings are materially consistent I think the movie one is less concise and to the point, and thus confuses the issue unnecessarily.
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Old 2013-05-06, 21:53   Link #876
Sackett
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
And I see the E of E ending as ladling a lot of unnecessary material on top of a TV ending that did exactly what it needed to do, and no more. Even if you believe the endings are materially consistent I think the movie one is less concise and to the point, and thus confuses the issue unnecessarily.
Well, I can understand what you are saying, but some of us like to take our character development with a little plot to wash it down.
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Old 2013-05-06, 22:01   Link #877
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
And I see the E of E ending as ladling a lot of unnecessary material on top of a TV ending that did exactly what it needed to do, and no more. Even if you believe the endings are materially consistent I think the movie one is less concise and to the point, and thus confuses the issue unnecessarily.
If you view Evangelion as solely Shinji's story and that absolutely nothing else matters, the TV series provided just enough to be a satisfying conclusion. If you wanted anything more than that though, I see absolutely no way that the TV series end could have been satisfying at all.

Too many characters did not get a satisfying conclusion in the TV series ending. The sheer amount of abstraction made deciphering the actual plot details near impossible for most viewers. End of Evangelion is what adds all these details, which to you may not have been important, but to a lot of fans it is.

That's why I think it's a bit dishonest to assert that End of Evangelion somehow confuses the audience more so than the TV series end. If you think End of Evangelion was unnecessary, that's fine, but I would like to believe that End of Evangelion was significantly more approachable and understandable.
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Old 2013-05-07, 15:52   Link #878
Bri
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
So that opens up the theoritization of people like Sackett saying it's NOT a Remake which like I said is not a problem at all on it's own.......................................JUST DON'T SAY IN PRE RELEASE COVERAGE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE A MORE COMPREHENSIBLE STORY, that's the main problem I have with the film, Anno is NOT making good on what he said this would be. And he isn't going into some abstract approach to previously established character development and narrative themes neither....
Pretty much the same thing happened with the TV-series, which deviated a lot from the original pre-release proposal as outlined in Newtype magazine. We should be glad that Anno changes his mind all the time though, as originally Eva looked like a far more conventional mecha anime.
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Old 2013-05-08, 11:07   Link #879
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Old 2013-05-09, 01:50   Link #880
AmeNoJaku
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Well, wouldn't we all love to watch a film about those 14 years !?
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