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Old 2012-07-05, 06:40   Link #81
C.A.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Looks like trash.

Not surprised.
You're using the word 'look', I assume you mean visuals, graphics and animation.

You think the graphics and animation look like trash, I think you have no idea what you are saying.

If you don't mean the visuals look like trash, then don't use the word 'look'.

And if you somehow mean the story, plot, storyboarding and other written content 'look' like trash after watching 25 seconds of footage then I think you're a just a hater and troll, nothing more.

Using 25 seconds to judge a film that would be around 7200 seconds long, dismissing 180000 frames of effort by hundreds of people just by 625 frames alone, you don't seem like someone who knows how to appreciate.

As an animator, I can tell you that the animators who animated Rebuild put in more effort than you have ever done in your life. Have you ever drawn the same face for more than 10 times? These animators probably have drawn the faces of each character more than 10000 times, digitalise and edit them 10000 times, colour them 10000 times.

They've watched Evangelion way more times than you ever had and worked on it more than you ever do.
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Old 2012-07-05, 08:29   Link #82
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Originally Posted by MAX_COLA_POWER! View Post
You mean Maki Illustrious Melon juggs Makinami? That'd be a twist, her instead of Asuka in Shinji's let's become one trips.
I dunno if anyone would accept her being one with Shinji over Asuka. Ruins the whole "Hey, she's hot!" than it's "Well... Shinji got to her.".
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Old 2012-07-05, 08:40   Link #83
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No new girl is stealing Shinji from Asuka, because Rei is the girl who Shinji is fully committed to.

Shinji always had more feelings towards Rei than Asuka anyway, be it romantic or some kind of motherly presence.
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Old 2012-07-05, 21:06   Link #84
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
You're using the word 'look', I assume you mean visuals, graphics and animation.

You think the graphics and animation look like trash, I think you have no idea what you are saying.

If you don't mean the visuals look like trash, then don't use the word 'look'.

And if you somehow mean the story, plot, storyboarding and other written content 'look' like trash after watching 25 seconds of footage then I think you're a just a hater and troll, nothing more.

Using 25 seconds to judge a film that would be around 7200 seconds long, dismissing 180000 frames of effort by hundreds of people just by 625 frames alone, you don't seem like someone who knows how to appreciate.

As an animator, I can tell you that the animators who animated Rebuild put in more effort than you have ever done in your life. Have you ever drawn the same face for more than 10 times? These animators probably have drawn the faces of each character more than 10000 times, digitalise and edit them 10000 times, colour them 10000 times.
Lets see. I looked at the trailer, then I thought it looked bad. What's the point of arguing about semantics here? Are the visuals great? Sure, the production values are off the charts and I won't deny that. Do I prefer the artstyle and general backgrounds of Rebuild over NGE? Well yeah, NGE is dated and had budget issues. But what does that have anything to do with what I saw in the trailer?

I've reiterated all my problems with Rebuild many many times in this thread in the past, and as a long time NGE fan I am generally disgusted with many of the efforts put into the film. This isn't even about simply staying true to NGE, which is also large issue I have, but the fact that the film just wasn't very good. It was rushed, and the writing and directing clearly showed that.

Considering how much of a hole this movie series is already in, they have a tough road ahead of them if they ever want to convince me that this effort was really worth it. All I see here is some greedy money grab.

What this trailer did signify to me, and I haven't declared any definitive judgment on anything but what the trailer showed me, is that they didn't learn anything from rebuild 2.0 (And why should they since they obviously are dumbing down evangelion to face palming levels and getting tons of cash for it?).

Sorry, putting crap in a gold box doesn't change the fact that inside the box is crap. I applaud the visuals more or less (Though personally I think EoE looks better than these rebuild films aesthetically IMO), but abhor everything else. Just putting a bunch of flashy images is convincing me that I am no longer the fan they had in mind when they made this.

Quote:
They've watched Evangelion way more times than you ever had and worked on it more than you ever do.
Anno actually stated something along the lines of not having rewatched it until he decided to work on Rebuild if I remember correctly. No, I seriously doubt every person on the staff has watched it more than me. I've seen NGE countless times. However, there's no way to know so why we are even discussing this?
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:03   Link #85
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How about you being the one who just kept complaining about the story not going the way you want and sticking to your own narrow minded views of the story for the past few years.

Just how big is this hole that this top box office and DVD selling movie series has fallen in? Because the characters are developing in a different direction that you like, you think it was written badly? You must have some insane standards or just trapped in your own nostalgia to think that this is trash. The hundreds of thousands of people who liked this 'trash' must be people who have no idea at all.

What do you know about the efforts of making a animated film? Which part of this huge effort involved in making this film justifies you using the word 'trash'? Using the word 'trash' and 'crap' just tells me that you are not a good amateur critic, you are just another unappreciative viewer.

Who watches the film most? Definitely not the director, because the director is the guy who puts the least amount of work into a single production. Its the animators, sound engineers, editors, screen writers, story boarders, etc. these are the people who have to keep rewatching the film to make every single detail work.

Have you ever animated anything from scratch? Probably not, because you don't know how many times an animator would review his own animation. Have you edited and compose a film from scratch before? Probably not. Have you ever as an animator, work together with voice actors and musicians to try synching voice to mouth animation and sound tracks with scenes? Have you ever thrown away 2 weeks of work, several hundred pieces of frames because the director thinks this scene needs to be redrawn in another angle?

Do you have any idea how many thousands of hours of work and rewatching per person puts into this for you to say this is trash? Do you know how many thousands of hours is put into those 25 seconds, 625 frames for you to say trash?

Trash? From someone who just sits there and watch shows, how ignorant and arrogant can one be?
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:17   Link #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
How about you being the one who just kept complaining about the story not going the way you want and sticking to your own narrow minded views of the story for the past few years.
Interesting, you accuse someone of being narrow minded, without really addressing any of his points, simply because they are contrary to yours. That sounds not very open minded to me either. Please be a little nicer!

My main issue is not about disagreement. It's that you not only not addressed any of the points of the post you're replying too, but your rant, while, full of passion, has nothing to do with it either. I'd hate to see such energy go in a wasted direction.

Quote:
Just how big is this hole that this top box office and DVD selling movie series has fallen in? Because the characters are developing in a different direction that you like, you think it was written badly? You must have some insane standards or just trapped in your own nostalgia to think that this is trash. The hundreds of thousands of people who liked this 'trash' must be people who have no idea at all.
Insane standards... are indeed unreasonable. But what are they anyways? I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't understand who you are talking about.

Quote:
What do you know about the efforts of making a animated film? Which part of this huge effort involved in making this film justifies you using the word 'trash'? Using the word 'trash' and 'crap' just tells me that you are not a good amateur critic, you are just another unappreciative viewer.
Eh, I hate to say this, but life is brutal sometimes, and even if you try, people might not appreciate your work. Yes, it was fun back then when they'd give you stickers for putting in "effort". But hey, you can't please everyone, and you could try expressing about how much effort you put in a product when a customer complains... but they still won't give a crap when they return it back to you.

Quote:
Who watches the film most? Definitely not the director, because the director is the guy who puts the least amount of work into a single production. Its the animators, sound engineers, editors, screen writers, story boarders, etc. these are the people who have to keep rewatching the film to make every single detail work.
Oh... *raises hand* I know! The viewers. A film is watched by people that watch it!

Quote:
Have you ever animated anything from scratch? Probably not, because you don't know how many times an animator would review his own animation. Have you edited and compose a film from scratch before? Probably not. Have you ever as an animator, work together with voice actors and musicians to try synching voice to mouth animation and sound tracks with scenes? Have you ever thrown away 2 weeks of work, several hundred pieces of frames because the director thinks this scene needs to be redrawn in another angle?

Do you have any idea how many thousands of hours of work and rewatching per person puts into this for you to say this is trash? Do you know how many thousands of hours is put into those 25 seconds, 625 frames for you to say trash?

Trash? From someone who just sits there and watch shows, how ignorant and arrogant can one be?
I'm sure the folks over at Khara can put up with some people on the internet not liking their work and saying mean things about them. In fact, I don't understand why you seem more offended then them. It's just an opinion, man. Let's not be so melodramatic about art here.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:26   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I'm sure the folks over at Khara can put up with some people on the internet not liking their work and saying mean things about him. In fact, I don't understand why you seem more offended then them. It's just an opinion, man.
Try telling anyone their line of work is trash.

And no, audience rarely watch more than the people who make the films, unless you're one who has watched literally hundreds of times.

Of course customers and audience can say shit they like, Reckoner did it, so my opinion of him in return is that he is just another ignorant and arrogant viewer and amateur critic.

EDIT: And there is absolutely nothing in those 25 seconds to say anything about story which is what Reckoner has been going on about these years and yet he says its 'trash' even though he says he applauds the visuals.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:32   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Try telling anyone their line of work is trash.

And no, audience rarely watch more than the people who make the films, unless you're one who has watched literally hundreds of times.

Of course customers and audience can say shit they like, Reckoner did it, so my opinion of him in return is that he is just another ignorant and arrogant viewer and amateur critic.
"Line of work" is not the right analogy. If someone called the entire industry of animation trash, or moviemaking trash, it would most indeed be ignorant. But this is a single work.

I would only call someone's line of work trash if I was somehow "offended" by it. I mean let's take this analogy of another subjective topic... food! I'm sure every cook puts a lot of time and effort in their work. But hey, being humans, people make mistakes, and maybe they burnt it or something. If I said the steak was a shit job and was trash, it doesn't mean all chefs are trash, or all steaks are trash. I appreciate the effort, but throw that shit away and try again! If they prostrated at me to appreciate all their hours they put in training, I'd tell them to gtfo.

Respect and admiration is earned. Effort in itself can be praised, but it may not deserve it in and of itself.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:35   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A.
Try telling anyone their line of work is trash.

And no, audience rarely watch more than the people who make the films, unless you're one who has watched literally hundreds of times.

Of course customers and audience can say shit they like, Reckoner did it, so my opinion of him in return is that he is just another ignorant and arrogant viewer and amateur critic.
Are you trying to imply that an anime or film is incapable of being bad because the creators of it watched it multiple times? Bad films do exist, and while not everyone on the planet will have the same opinion about any one form of media, they all do have their opinion on which are good and which are bad. Not to mention, few directors motivation comes from creating a masterpiece. They do it for those green colored bills they count in their sleep at night. And if they can make a half-assed film that still produces a sizable amount of revenue, then don't think for a second that they wont.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:35   Link #90
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And what about those thousands of hours behind the 25 seconds deserve to be called trash? What justifies Reckoner's claim that it is trash, besides him being an unappreciative hater?

EDIT: I don't imply anything, I'm responding in disagreement and disgust at how someone can look at 25 seconds of effort that is technically sound and doesn't deserve to be called trash objectively.

The only thing in those 25 seconds are animation and visuals, they are all technically excellent work. They do not deserve to be called trash.

Do you think it should be called trash? Do the both of you agree with Reckoner that those 25 seconds is trash?
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:44   Link #91
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
No new girl is stealing Shinji from Asuka, because Rei is the girl who Shinji is fully committed to.

Shinji always had more feelings towards Rei than Asuka anyway, be it romantic or some kind of motherly presence.
Did you forget his freak out in the Movies when he thought his father forced him to kill Asuka because he refused to fight her? Shinji was out for blood!

Besides considering we all know what Rei really is it makes it hard to see their relationship in that way. You know since she's pretty much a copy of "You Know Who" and looks just like "You Know Who". Which explains a lot of Shinji's reactions towards her considering he has abandonment issues here though at least the Movies haven't portrayed him as completey traumitized over it.

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Old 2012-07-06, 07:45   Link #92
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All that those 25 seconds showed me is that the atmosphere of Eva has changed dramatically from what it used to be. Which is probably what Reckoner considers "trash."
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:46   Link #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
And what about those thousands of hours behind the 25 seconds deserve to be called trash? What justifies Reckoner's claim that it is trash, besides him being an unappreciative hater?

EDIT: I don't imply anything, I'm responding in disagreement and disgust at how someone can look at 25 seconds of effort that is technically sound and doesn't deserve to be called trash objectively.

The only thing in those 25 seconds are animation and visuals, they are all technically excellent work. They do not deserve to be called trash.

Do you think it should be called trash? Do the both of you agree with Reckoner that those 25 seconds is trash?
Loaded questions isn't going to help the case. He could be an unappreciative hater or someone that kicks puppies. That doesn't change a subjective assessment, nor does me agreeing or disagreeing with the trailer help in anyways whosoever. And once again I said, sure, effort can be appreciated, but really that doesn't affect the final product. But apparently someone feels that certain core elements are missing, but that would require digging through the last 50 pages, which none of us really want to repeat again.

And as for the trailer itself, well, I didn't feel like it showed anything of substance, and it didn't encourage me to seek more details on watching. So yes, I would say said trailer wasn't very good in getting me to watch it.

Applying objective metrics to subjective opinions don't work.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:47   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
All that those 25 seconds showed me is that the atmosphere of Eva has changed dramatically from what it used to be. Which is probably what Reckoner considers "trash."
So I'm right that Reckoner is not happy that the movie is going in a different direction from what he wants that's why he's being a hater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
And as for the trailer itself, well, I didn't feel like it showed anything of substance, and it didn't encourage me to seek more details on watching. So yes, I would say said trailer wasn't very good in getting me to watch it.
And to me, as an animator, those 25 seconds was an excellent technical display in animation. To me it doesn't deserve to be called trash.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:55   Link #95
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Gais. Why youz all so worked up on a trailer? Actually nvm, I do that all the time for shows I care

I think I'll wait for a better version of the trailer. Trying to watch something from a webcam quality point of quality is painful.
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Old 2012-07-06, 07:57   Link #96
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
So I'm right that Reckoner is not happy that the movie is going in a different direction from what he wants that's why he's being a hater.
Well, it goes beyond going in a different direction. It may be going too far to be associated with the original. This line is of course arbitrary, but some people have a lower threshold.

But not liking, or even raging at something is not necessarily being a "hater". A hater is someone that aggressively seeks out the subject of their hate out of spite and to be plain mean.

For example, I am a hater towards a certain popular archetype of character and will often take any opportunity that arises to bash them. When you go out of your way to hate something, then you are a hater. When you simply express displeasure at a franchise you have interest in, then you are a critic, or in some extreme cases, butthurt.

Quote:
And to me, as an animator, those 25 seconds was an excellent technical display in animation. To me it doesn't deserve to be called trash.
There's a lot more to an anime movie than animation though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Gais. Why youz all so worked up on a trailer? Actually nvm, I do that all the time for shows I care

I think I'll wait for a better version of the trailer. Trying to watch something from a webcam quality point of quality is painful.
It's potentially one of the bigger works of more recent times, coupled with that it is part of one of the most influential franchises of all time in anime, make the emotional stakes a bit high for some of us.

You're right though. Needs moar quality.
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Old 2012-07-06, 08:07   Link #97
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Reckoner has gone beyond a critic to become a hater if he uses words like trash or crap to describe an unreleased film, especially when there is nothing much to critic on.

A show definitely has more stuff than animation, but that trailer is only 25 seconds of animation with no story which doesn't deserve to be called trash. Reckoner himself said the visuals and animation are good, so what is he complaining about the 25 second trailer that justifies it to be called trash?
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Old 2012-07-06, 08:21   Link #98
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Well, one could have a low opinion of the trailer itself. And if the trailer is a representation of the movie, no matter how minute, it's going to leave a bad impression anyways. And really, impressions are all we have atm.

But as I've said quite a few times, that "deserve" isn't something that should be taken for granted regardless of efforts.

That's just my 2 cents. We don't really have anything concrete at the moment to really engage in meta-analysis of people's evaluations and any more would consist of internet psychology and divining of other's intentions. No point really, but at this point I've outstayed my welcome on this topic and everyone knows what I think by now. Hopefully. Which is the point.
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Old 2012-07-06, 08:29   Link #99
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Well my argument wasn't with you anyways and I don't think Reckoner is going to change his mind on anything.

If anyone has any impression that's not just trash it doesn't bother me. Obviously the people who watched the trailer on site all sound pretty ecstatic, I don't think the general opinion is that this 25 seconds is trash.
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Old 2012-07-06, 11:28   Link #100
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I have no real wish at this time to go into detail once more about what I hate about Rebuild 2.0.

The characters aren't just being put in a different direction, the direction is also overly simplified and inconsistent in characterization.

Character development is barely existent besides a few of the main characters, and what character development is there is horribly generic.

The new character Mari has earned no distinct identity of her own since everything she did in the film was basically usurping the role of other characters (Screwing characters like Kaiji and Asuka out of screen time), which begs the question of why was she even introduced in this film?

The way the final conflict was setup was horribly flawed. Not only was the treaty that forced them to put away an Eva stupidly conceived (Seriously the world is in danger and they do that?), but it was simply a plot device to put Asuka in Toiji's sacrificial lamb spot. What's the big problem with this?

Because it creates a sort of paradox. They establish a situation which is meant to be tragic but half the ingredients to make it tragic are not even there. Maybe the audience can pity Asuka in 2.0, but the movie totally falters in trying to express the weight of her absence convincingly as there is no one else in the film to notice it! Asuka was never sufficiently brought into the film, connected to the characters by the time this even occurs. The movie fails on delivering the full influence her tragedy causes to other characters. The tension is as a result lackluster, especially in how Bardiel incident played out.

What makes this situation more laughable as how when SHinji decides to leave Nerv, Misato half-heartedly asks why Shinji hasn't asked how Asuka and Rei are doing. Wait - Asuka and Rei? If I remember correctly Rei is just fine. Oh yes, she got her big evening ruined, a little dinner party... boo hoo. No Asuka is in vegetable form in some secret lab, but Misato gets emotional that Shinji didn't get ot sit with his dad and Rei and make awkward conversation.

Doesn't this seem off? I'm sorry, the way Asuka's character was handled throughout the film was laughably bad and it wasn't just because she was different and no longer the main relationship interest.

It's these sorts of things throughout the film that make it just very mediocre to me. I can honestly go on and on if you aren't satisfied, but if you don't even respond to any of my points why should I care to?

------

Furthermore, the trailer seems to represent the same sort of flash and no substance that I saw in 2.0. Is it any wonder why I am terribly unimpressed and think the film just might actually be crap? Oh because I call it crap I am a troll. If that's what you choose to believe, so be it. Want me to use a euphemism to make it better?

Terribly ordinary
Bad
Disgraceful
Below average
Awful
Atrocious
Unsatisfactory
Unacceptable
Substandard

I don't care what you pick. It conveys the same thing. Are we so young that a little rough language is going to ruffle your feathers so much?

I also don't care if the masses of people happen to like this film. Why is that relevant to me and my own tastes and how I perceive this?

If you guys are happy with this, great. I'm not and that's what I am going to express. And believe it I am far from the only one who thinks this, so I'm not some extremist fringe opinion here.

And believe me I credit the animators and people doing the visuals (I don't like the OST or editing so won't credit that). I thought Guilty Crown was the worst show I watched last year, but I acknowledge its fantastic visuals. But just because people put effort into this I should praise the entire work? Give me a break.
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