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Old 2013-07-12, 15:40   Link #361
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I disagree. If you did that, you would end up with at least 10 episodes of nothing happening at all. The first death wouldn't even happen until the end of episode 3.
Well you can't say nothing happened at all.
I dare to bet that a certain scene in a currently locked area will be portrayed for sure, even though it has little to do with the story.

Think back at why monokuma does this in the first place and you will see that more content would actually serve that better.
If you skip building up relationships between characters, the only thing thats left is random strangers butchering one another.

Also vital information that should have been released(not just for the current case) already is currently withheld from the viewer, and I'm afraid they will have to continue like this with just 13 episodes.
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Old 2013-07-12, 15:49   Link #362
SquirrelLuvsPnut
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Well, what is this anime really about? The characters and their backstory, or survival in a murder game? I don't think taking time for character development is bad, but remember what the anime is really aiming for.
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Old 2013-07-12, 15:50   Link #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
Well you can't say nothing happened at all.
I dare to bet that a certain scene in a currently locked area will be portrayed for sure, even though it has little to do with the story.

Think back at why monokuma does this in the first place and you will see that more content would actually serve that better.
If you skip building up relationships between characters, the only thing thats left is random strangers butchering one another.

Also vital information that should have been released(not just for the current case) already is currently withheld from the viewer, and I'm afraid they will have to continue like this with just 13 episodes.
You seem to want a 100% accurate adaptation with everything in it. Which would take around the same time as the game itself. That would take over a year in anime form. The first murder wouldn't happen for at least 4-5 episodes.

As for the other arguments, from a directing standpoint, an anime about murder isn't a very good anime if no one's dead by the end of episode 2. On the same note, you'd have to have a corpse at least once every 2 episodes. That is the kind of deadline they're dealing with.
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Old 2013-07-12, 15:53   Link #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelLuvsPnut View Post
Well, what is this anime really about? The characters and their backstory, or survival in a murder game? I don't think taking time for character development is bad, but remember what the anime is really aiming for.
Its better if both, coz after some developtment, we could feel 'something' more when a certain person die / commit murder.
Not just... "oh this time he died" "oh this time he commit murder" "next please" etc

Its good if she dead at the end of episode
Next episode investigation + pre-trial
Next episode climax and conclusion

Repeat...
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Old 2013-07-12, 15:57   Link #365
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
You seem to want a 100% accurate adaptation with everything in it. Which would take around the same time as the game itself. That would take over a year in anime form. The first murder wouldn't happen for at least 4-5 episodes.
Except that if you want a 100% adaptation, it would require more than 24 episode, especially with every tidbits and social link. What I consider an accurate adaptation (that is to say, no need to have 100%) would be:
-1 the adaptation giving the exact same clues to the audience in order to have fair circumstances
-2 enough "usual tidbits" regarding the characters in order to have the audience -care- for the characters, but also giving possible motives for every students. Having characters throwing a fit about why they did X or Y with a brushed up reason is a very poor narrative presentation in term of mystery genre.
Quote:
As for the other arguments, from a directing standpoint, an anime about murder isn't a very good anime if no one's dead by the end of episode 2. On the same note, you'd have to have a corpse at least once every 2 episodes. That is the kind of deadline they're dealing with.
I disagree and frankly, if you need corpses to keep the attention of the audience, without playing with the atmosphere, motives etc, that's basically a very cheap directing if you ask me.
And really, a lot of series would be "fail" with such statement, despite it isn't the case (Higurashi for instance hardly comply with your criteria).

I see really no evidence that supplement your generalization.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:00   Link #366
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Is there a lot of characterization in the video game? If not, then that would explain it right there.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:04   Link #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelLuvsPnut View Post
Is there a lot of characterization in the video game? If not, then that would explain it right there.
There is. Actually you have 20-30 min worth of interactions with Sayaka before shit has hit the fan. In term of pure content, interactions with the characters are worth 20-30% of the whole game.
Due to the nature of the game and the episode number, the producers have admitted they focused the adaptation on the trials instead, hence why they flew over everything else.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:07   Link #368
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It does. Actually you have 20-30 min worth of interactions with Sayaka before shit has hit the fan. In term of pure content, interactions with the characters are worth 20-30% of the whole game.
Due to the nature of the game and the episode number, the producers have admitted they focused the adaptation on the trials instead, hence why they flew over everything else.
Oh, well that does kind of suck then.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:09   Link #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I disagree and frankly, if you need corpses to keep the attention of the audience, without playing with the atmosphere, motives etc, that's basically a very cheap directing if you ask me.
And really, a lot of series would be "fail" with such statement, despite it isn't the case (Higurashi for instance hardly comply with your criteria).
You seem to overestimate the audience. And with that I've run out of things to say about the subject of length. And I hope the amount of repeat arguments in this thread will remain as few as possible. Stuff like that has made many an adaptation thread almost unbearable to read.

Speaking of unbearable, on an unrelated and more positive note. Animated Monokuma is absolutely amazing.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:20   Link #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Except that if you want a 100% adaptation, it would require more than 24 episode, especially with every tidbits and social link. What I consider an accurate adaptation (that is to say, no need to have 100%) would be:
-1 the adaptation giving the exact same clues to the audience in order to have fair circumstances
-2 enough "usual tidbits" regarding the characters in order to have the audience -care- for the characters, but also giving possible motives for every students. Having characters throwing a fit about why they did X or Y with a brushed up reason is a very poor narrative presentation in term of mystery genre.
With a cast of 15 characters, one cour, and a game with so much content to cover it'll definitely be hard to focus or take the time to "care" for all the characters if little info on them or content regarding the premise gets little coverage. It could be just a matter of context just for the sake of dragging potential new comers to the series.

For example "If you wish to know more about the character(s) or the game in its entirely, buy the full product or search it up etc.

It's like you said throwing a fit or doing the "blame game" does hurt the narrative of a mystery story a bit, but at the same time we have to sympathize with the fact that a murder did occur, and the timing of the incident and the build up into it was not as satisfying as most people would give it credit for.
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Originally Posted by SquirrelLuvsPnut View Post
Oh, well that does kind of suck then.
It's probably a tool used as an effective "selling point". Ie. If you want to do the other things that this series left out or not, buy the game or find a way to play it etc.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:21   Link #371
Ashlotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
There is. Actually you have 20-30 min worth of interactions with Sayaka before shit has hit the fan. In term of pure content, interactions with the characters are worth 20-30% of the whole game.
Due to the nature of the game and the episode number, the producers have admitted they focused the adaptation on the trials instead, hence why they flew over everything else.
Ugh that was not what I wanted to hear...

I have no experience with the game at all, but if all this is going to be is going from death to trial as fast as possible while leaving the characters as paper thin as they are now can't see much reason to watch this...They didn't even make the clue gathering part interesting at all simply leaving it as a boring montage so it's not like the murder mystery part is particularly enthralling thus far either.

That's a damn shame because the premise and the art style of this showed some real promise.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:33   Link #372
AC-Phoenix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
You seem to want a 100% accurate adaptation with everything in it. Which would take around the same time as the game itself. That would take over a year in anime form. The first murder wouldn't happen for at least 4-5 episodes.

As for the other arguments, from a directing standpoint, an anime about murder isn't a very good anime if no one's dead by the end of episode 2. On the same note, you'd have to have a corpse at least once every 2 episodes. That is the kind of deadline they're dealing with.
I don't want a 100% accurate adaption I want one where all clues are given out at the right time, instead 2 vital clues regarding to the case and 2 more vital clues regarding the overall mystery being absent.

If it was me there would be a new mystery so the people who played the game will get something to think too . Also making other parts more interesting.

Regarding the every 2 episodes a corpse, I also have to disagree, especially considering how you, for example, never get to know whats on the other people's videos.
You only see Sayaka's and Naegi's

If you got 15 people locked away for an indefinite amount of time and tell every single one they can get out by killing one of the others without being caught is the same as telling two random people stranded on an emergency boat that they can only survive by throwing the other one over board since the boat can only carry one person.
Thats not the case here though; they made friends during those few days between the arrival and the first murder that happened off screen.

In fact this only makes the already easy mystery easier.
If you don't get to know the characters you will see everything from a purely objective point of view, which the game deliberately avoided even without the free time scenes.

Sayaka is a good example - Naegi is 100% right when thinking that Sayaka would probably have no idea they went to the same school if not for the background.

Its impossible to get every detail in(which is good as I got spared the esper jokes), but killing them off one after another with viewers just knowing their names and abilities is kinda boring.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:41   Link #373
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^As I said before, you overestimate the audience.
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Old 2013-07-12, 16:44   Link #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarami View Post
With a cast of 15 characters, one cour, and a game with so much content to cover it'll definitely be hard to focus or take the time to "care" for all the characters if little info on them or content regarding the premise gets little coverage. It could be just a matter of context just for the sake of dragging potential new comers to the series.
That's exactly why I believe the adaptation is flawed from its very basis, as in the number of episodes.
Because of that, I question the very decision of adapting DR, despite it is very clear from the get go that 13 episodes would be a butcher job, even if you had to remove all the fluff/character interactions, as proved by episode 2. Ep2 by itself is a "logical result" due to the very limited episode count they have, but as stated by gamers and also anime viewers only, in term of narrative, it doesn't cut it at all.

If they really wanted to attract newcomers, they should either have planned 2 cour, or animated tidbits as OAD or something (promotional stuff for DR 1.2 reload for example).
But as of now, DR the animation will just be a disservice, because gamers will be disappointed by the adaptation and newcomers won't really understand and/or arguably not moved by the story at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
^As I said before, you overestimate the audience.
Allow me to return the argument and state you really underestimate the audience, or at least base your reasoning over misplaced objectivity, despite several mystery centred stories do not share the criteria you have mentioned and -still- managed stirring audience attention (Higurashi could maintain people attention for 26 episodes, despite the "a corpse per 2 ep" rule isn't even followed. Hell, kai would even beat the dead horse regarding such claim).
In fact, there is, like I said, no evidence that confirm your statement.

Feel free to disagree (in fact, it would be better not to claim the public is over/understimated, even), but the whole point is to point out issue the adaptation has regarding the nature of the story itself.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2013-07-12 at 17:02.
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:00   Link #375
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dang, finished episode.
Spoiler for episode 2:
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:03   Link #376
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2 dead already. They're not wasting anytime. Feels like a bit of a waste that these two got killed without receiving any kind of development, especially Junko whom we barely knew.

The rules of the "game" are very interesting. The culprit must make sure the crime he committed is perfect or he will die. The others must solve the crime or they all die. So basically, only one person can get out alive, right? Unless it's allowed for people to team-up to kill somebody.

The first case is ridiculously easy to solve. One of the clue literally spells the name of the culprit. No matter how I look at it, it's not a number.
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:08   Link #377
SquirrelLuvsPnut
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This probably sounds super stupid, but I wonder if there's some sort of mystery behind Monokuma. Is he an experiment? A puppet? Robot? Of is he just a strange colored bear inexplicably placed in an otherwise non-fantastical universe?
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:09   Link #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The rules of the "game" are very interesting. The culprit must make sure the crime he committed is perfect or he will die. The others must solve the crime or they all die. So basically, only one person can get out alive, right?
Correct, only 1 student can "graduate" per Monokuma's conditions. Few things will be clearer in episode 3. Should they skip that point, I will simply append it like I did for the missing clues in ep2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelLuvsPnut View Post
This probably sounds super stupid, but I wonder if there's some sort of mystery behind Monokuma. Is he an experiment? A puppet? Robot? Of is he just a strange colored bear inexplicably placed in an otherwise non-fantastical universe?
Currently at that part of the story, the protagonists have little to no idea "what" Monokuma is.
Visually, he really looks like your usual teddy bear, except it moves by itself (which made some characters speculate it is a robot or something). The only thing you can ascertain is that there are several of them, with what you had in Ep1.
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:14   Link #379
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Didn't they already explain it in this episode? If they fail to point out the villain, everyone dies and the villain can leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
But as of now, DR the animation will just be a disservice, because gamers will be disappointed by the adaptation and newcomers won't really understand and/or arguably not moved by the story at all.
That's generalizing. You're saying that every single gamer will without fail be disappointed by virtue of being a gamer. And newcomers will not understand anything ever by virtue of being a newcomer.

Reality isn't black and white like that.
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Old 2013-07-12, 17:27   Link #380
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