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Old 2013-04-05, 15:17   Link #321
shmaster
Hanged Man & Chariot
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Dubhe's "gimmick" was the fact that it could repeatedly explode. The so-called "invulnerability" thing was just a gameplay gimmick to illustrate the hopeless power difference, and prevent the player from defeating Dubhe before Daichi got to play the hero.

I mean think about it, if Dubhe really was invulnerable, then it'd have no business being the first Septentrione.

Don't try to consolidate gameplay gimmicks with how the story works. It never works.

Furthermore, Byakko (or Baihu, as he is known in the US version of the game) is level 53. That is FAR beyond what anyone would be at this point in the game. So really it's no surprise that he could take care of Dubhe. And it's not like it was EASY either. He had to specifically target the exploding bit to make it go unstable (like Daichi did in the game).
Which it is not. Assuming your words are true, Dubhe won't stand a chance in a new game+ (which I suspect this anime is). But even if you bring a super powerful demon on your second run, it still takes absolutely no damage. On top of that, it is even all-mighty immune, completely crush the dreams of the first time player who actually think they can beat Dubhe with that on a new game+.
If the invulnerability hax is just a game-play gimmick instead of a story, they won't have to repeat it every cycle.

Also, what actually display on the status menu is canonical. In the story, more than once we see characters looking at the status screen and comment how BS the Septentrion's power. or you are going to say Benny's power is also just a gameplay trick?

If this is not enough to convince you, there is also the developer's interview answering the widely asked question: "Why the truck could hurt Dubhe when it is invincible?" when the writer explained the tricks behind Dubhe's invincibility.
Though, those who thought about the question Makoto had asked Daichi on the day after, it should be easy to figure out why.

If this is not enough to convince you, there is also the developer's interview answering the widely asked question: "Why the truck could hurt Dubhe when it is invincible?" when the writer explained the tricks behind Dubhe's invincibility.
Though, those who thought about the question Makoto had asked Daichi on the day after, it should be easy to figure out why.
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Old 2013-04-05, 16:03   Link #322
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
Which it is not. Assuming your words are true, Dubhe won't stand a chance in a new game+ (which I suspect this anime is).
WTF? Why the hell would you consolidate gameplay with story, and moreover: What is "New Game Plus"? No one is playing a videogame here! How can this be New Game Plus? It's not a game!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
But even if you bring a super powerful demon on your second run, it still takes absolutely no damage.
...Because if it did, you would be able to kill Dubhe before Daichi's scene, obviously. >_>

Quote:
Originally Posted by shmaster View Post
If the invulnerability hax is just a game-play gimmick instead of a story, they won't have to repeat it every cycle.
It's precisely because it's a gameplay gimmick that it needs to be repeated. >_>
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Old 2013-04-05, 16:21   Link #323
lildevilinhell
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Sort of sad that they skipped Devil Survivor 1 ._. ... For some reason the first episode felt really tame, it just didn't have the impact that draws you in o.o'
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Old 2013-04-05, 16:53   Link #324
Om Nerabdator
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Originally Posted by lildevilinhell View Post
Sort of sad that they skipped Devil Survivor 1 ._. ...
i agree with ya there, its a damn travesty not to have Yuzu animated well at least we have Io ^^
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Old 2013-04-05, 17:34   Link #325
shmaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
WTF? Why the hell would you consolidate gameplay with story, and moreover: What is "New Game Plus"? No one is playing a videogame here! How can this be New Game Plus? It's not a game!
At the very least, with Hibiki's huge amount of starting macca and that Byakko, screams this is new game + to me that takes place after the Daichi's good end.
And not to forget the last boss IS biting his words in the upcoming port.
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Old 2013-04-05, 17:54   Link #326
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
While I guess this can be subjective, from a writer's point of view, you can't have your main character be outdone by his side kick when he's supposed to be something special. And yes, he IS supposed to be something special. Anyone who has played the game -knows- Hibiki is something special. The writers HAVE to make this apparent in the first episode.
...huh? No he's not. Hibiki isn't the Persona 3 or Devil Survivor protagonist. I played the games and there is no in-game explanation that gives him any special powers over the other characters.

He is supposed to be a charismatic lead, yes, but in terms of special powers he is about as special as (or maybe even less than) Yu Narukami from Persona 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
[Revive the dead? Oh you mean what happened after they got the death clip.

I don't think they actually died. They apparently were never actually crushed by the train. "Something" happened when Nicaea confirmed their will to live, and that's what saved them. I dunno, maybe cause and effect were tampered with a little? Or maybe the demon just came out and saved them and went back into the cell phone? Either way, there are no signs of them actually having died.

Maybe I'm just weird for not questioning things like this. Seriously, the notion never even occurred to me until you pointed in out.
They were noticeably crushed under rubble and Daichi was bleeding. The "something" that saved them in the games was Nicaea autosummoning Obariyon to catch and push off the train before they were buried. The anime made it seem like they were directly revived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Dubhe's "gimmick" was the fact that it could repeatedly explode. The so-called "invulnerability" thing was just a gameplay gimmick to illustrate the hopeless power difference, and prevent the player from defeating Dubhe before Daichi got to play the hero.

I mean think about it, if Dubhe really was invulnerable, then it'd have no business being the first Septentrione.
Power creep does not happen in every story. Invincibility does not prevent something from being the first boss. You're making a contrived explanation that was not in the games to explain the change.

To give a counterexample, I'll leave you with one word: Beldr.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Don't try to consolidate gameplay gimmicks with how the story works. It never works.


Furthermore, Byakko (or Baihu, as he is known in the US version of the game) is level 53. That is FAR beyond what anyone would be at this point in the game. So really it's no surprise that he could take care of Dubhe. And it's not like it was EASY either. He had to specifically target the exploding bit to make it go unstable (like Daichi did in the game).
No, consolidating gameplay gimmicks with the story would be complaining that the cast didn't get to fight the demons they first summoned to form the contract, or complaining that the action wasn't turn-based. The change there is justified.

You're also missing the mark on why Daichi's truck driving worked on Dubhe. Go reread the scene in the games again. They specifically mention that the because the trick hit Dubhe right as it was about to explode, the surface of the truck deflected some of the explosion back at it, causing Dubhe to harm itself. It wasn't the physical impact that weakened Dubhe. If it was, then the game would have allowed you to aim for the head.

Even if you started a New Game+ playthrough and had a level 99 Lucifer with Holy Dance, Dubhe would still Null all attacks, even Almighty. If the developers wanted to script a scene where the characters were simply too weak to kill it, they would have still allowed Dubhe to take damage, but prevent it from dying and have a cutscene interrupt the battle.


Also I'd like to note that I don't necessarily blame the studio for making the change, because with only 12-13 episodes it's inevitable. What I am saying however is the fact that they did change the events, making it unfaithful to the source material.

Is the anime suddenly ruined, making me want to drop it? No, it's still nicely animated. But I'm not expecting to get an accurate presentation of the game's story from the anime alone either.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-04-05 at 18:28.
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Old 2013-04-05, 19:11   Link #327
RWBladewing
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I thought the entire time playing through the game that Sawashiro Miyuki would be absolutely perfect as Makoto and she certainly didn't disappoint. Hopefully Hibiki decides to pick on her a bit and get her flustered as I always do in the game, because I'd love to hear that voiced.
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:25   Link #328
Hitenma
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I really like the first episode. The story looks promising and the action scenes are good enough. And Sawashiro Miyuki of course is a big plus
The OP is dull though, and seriously, what is that suicide attack?
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:31   Link #329
relentlessflame
 
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Just want to post this reminder.

I will not post spoilers in this thread.
I will stick only to the anime instead.
I will not hide spoilers behind a tag.
I will not hint, insinuate, or brag.
The things I know, I'll keep to me
So that everyone on their own can see
All the plot that is in store.
There's a policy. Please read more.


(You have no idea how many times I've posted reminders like this, so... )


P.S. If you are comparing to the game in any way, you must use spoiler tags. No comparisons can be posted in the clear. There are a bunch of posts I see above that are clearly referring to the game, and that's a no-no. I don't care if you think "oh, it's not important; it's not a spoiler". All comparisons. Otherwise, you can discuss it openly in the game thread instead.
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:33   Link #330
SilverSyko
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The main thing I enjoyed from this episode was seeing the demons from SMT get animated again. Though I didn't recognize the jellyfish-like one that was attacking everyone. Must be a new one introduced in this game.

Aside from that, the setup was pretty much the same thing as the little I played of the first Devil Survivor. A citywide lockdown where demons start manifesting and humans manage to fight them off with personal demons summoned through their COMPS. FYI, I'm in the anime-only camp for this show because while I like Shin Megami Tensei, I don't like the Devil Survivor sub-series' gameplay, so I've never played this game before and know very little about it.

Looking forward to seeing where this plot goes. I'm assuming this show will be two-cour but can somebody confirm this?
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:41   Link #331
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Just want to post this reminder.

I will not post spoilers in this thread.
I will stick only to the anime instead.
I will not hide spoilers behind a tag.
I will not hint, insinuate, or brag.
The things I know, I'll keep to me
So that everyone on their own can see
All the plot that is in store.
There's a policy. Please read more.


(You have no idea how many times I've posted reminders like this, so... )
Hmm, is that a new oath for Knights of the Roundtable? Or Green Lantern Corps?

Seriously though, anime-only viewers here. I’ve seen the first episode and it’s okay. The pacing and character introduction is good. The chemistry between the two buddies is decent and we got summoning action like in some Persona anime series. Overall, a well-done first episode for a game adaptation. I'll try to stick with it.
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Old 2013-04-05, 20:47   Link #332
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A lot of deaths.. and only the youngsters could save the world.. pretty cliche....
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Old 2013-04-05, 21:03   Link #333
Hitenma
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
A lot of deaths.. and only the youngsters could save the world.. pretty cliche....
There is nothing new under the sun
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Old 2013-04-05, 21:29   Link #334
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I personally think it was a good ride for a first episode. Kind of reminds me of Persona is senses, I'll stick around with this for a bit.
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Old 2013-04-05, 21:31   Link #335
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
I personally think it was a good ride for a first episode. Kind of reminds me of Persona is senses, I'll stick around with this for a bit.
The game is by the same people who did Persona.
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Old 2013-04-05, 21:31   Link #336
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Makes so much sense, thanks Chaos2Frozen.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:01   Link #337
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Looking forward to seeing where this plot goes. I'm assuming this show will be two-cour but can somebody confirm this?
So far, at least, it has been confirmed for 13 episodes. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be split-cour.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:03   Link #338
Angelic Cross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
A citywide lockdown where demons start manifesting and humans manage to fight them off with personal demons summoned through their COMPS.
The city wasn't locked down. The usual disaster relief stuff you'd expect to see happens, but no lockdown was enacted on the entire city.

EDIT: Also, GenjiChan, you did look at the opening, right? We have five 20+ something working adults in the main cast roll shown there. It's not all going to be high schoolers and below. I'm pretty sure that's at least one more 20-something character than the main cast than Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, and that one was considered impressive for having a main cast of adults (barring one character) in an SMT product.

Last edited by Angelic Cross; 2013-04-05 at 22:17.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:21   Link #339
SilverSyko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The game is by the same people who did Persona.
Moreso than that actually, Devil Survivor and Persona are technically from the same franchise as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
So far, at least, it has been confirmed for 13 episodes. But that doesn't mean it couldn't be split-cour.
That's actually a bit of a surprise, but when I think about it Devil Survivor 2 probably doesn't have as meaty a package to offer like Persona 4 did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelic Cross View Post
The city wasn't locked down. The usual disaster relief stuff you'd expect to see happens, but no lockdown was enacted on the entire city.
If it hasn't yet, I'm sure it'll happen eventually. This JP organization and the government likely aren't going to want demons freely roaming Japan.
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Old 2013-04-05, 22:28   Link #340
Angelic Cross
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
If it hasn't yet, I'm sure it'll happen eventually. This JP organization and the government likely aren't going to want demons freely roaming Japan.
The problem with this thinking is that you're assuming things will go the same as DeSu 1. Also consider... Nicaea is on the internet and, judging from the dialogue, has been active for some time now. In DeSu 1, the Demon Summoning Program was only restricted on the COMPs manufactured by the Shomonkai, who distributed said COMPs in a very limited area. Now, which of these situations would it be more logical to perform a lockdown?
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