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Old 2013-04-11, 21:53   Link #401
Shadow5YA
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Join Date: Mar 2010
It find it stupid that they're making Io and Daichi out to be nearly useless when they're supposed to be no different from Hibiki at this point in the story. The demons are not Persona - they're allowed to have and summon more than one at a time. Even in the first episode Io showed she had more than one demon and used her second, Pixie, to rescue Daichi... so why is she doing nothing here? There is no excuse for this poor writing.

This is turning out to be the typical poorly condensed video game adaptation.

It's such a shame with great animation and casting.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-04-11 at 22:05.
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Old 2013-04-11, 22:11   Link #402
jeroz
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I could kind of seeing what they are coming from. Io was so preoccupied with her own agenda and Daichi being the wimp as usual. Not to mention Hibiki is the closest one to the scene where others are most likely to be further away. I need to watch it again but I don't think Io was around until the end
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Old 2013-04-11, 22:21   Link #403
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post

That being said, I'd say keep to your rule of three. The first episode is meant to draw people in, the second usually explains a bit about the setting (but as I explained before, given the nature of the story, this is kind of hard to do), the third episode would supposedly set the stage for most of the story.
This is generally how I prefer most anime to handle their series structure, even if it may be formulaic. Alternate methods usually tends to lead to rushed and confusing episodes unless handle by a skilled Director. So I didn't mind DS2's second episode being slow as things got settled in and goals/motivations were clearly established.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2013-04-11 at 22:32.
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Old 2013-04-11, 22:25   Link #404
novalysis
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It seems like the main gripe against Devil Survivor 2 is: Io is useless.

Last edited by novalysis; 2013-04-11 at 23:58.
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Old 2013-04-11, 22:26   Link #405
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
I could kind of seeing what they are coming from. Io was so preoccupied with her own agenda and Daichi being the wimp as usual. Not to mention Hibiki is the closest one to the scene where others are most likely to be further away. I need to watch it again but I don't think Io was around until the end
Io was in the church with Daichi. The Itsumade were everywhere until Hibiki lured them away. With the two having their cellphones back, there was no excuse.

It's also a problem that Io broke down so easily in the first place, considering she doesn't cry in the equivalent game scenes.

Then there's with Yamato infodumping nearly everything to Hibiki. With Yamato's superiority complex, he wouldn't trust anyone with that much information at once and would only confirm the truth if you found out elsewhere. It's extremely out of character for him.
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Old 2013-04-11, 23:55   Link #406
shmaster
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.......why is Io so useless? This is not the Io I know.....
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Old 2013-04-12, 00:42   Link #407
Angelic Cross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Io was in the church with Daichi. The Itsumade were everywhere until Hibiki lured them away. With the two having their cellphones back, there was no excuse.

It's also a problem that Io broke down so easily in the first place, considering she doesn't cry in the equivalent game scenes.

Then there's with Yamato infodumping nearly everything to Hibiki. With Yamato's superiority complex, he wouldn't trust anyone with that much information at once and would only confirm the truth if you found out elsewhere. It's extremely out of character for him.
Agreed with everything, though Io in the game does break into tears in

Spoiler for Io event:
but that was pretty much the worst case scenario for her. Nothing on the level of what's been shown in the anime should have made her start sobbing.

EDIT: Also, lol, Justice Boy actually has an initial plan beyond rioting, ranting, and being completely useless without riding on someone else's coattails.
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Old 2013-04-12, 00:54   Link #408
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Io was in the church with Daichi. The Itsumade were everywhere until Hibiki lured them away. With the two having their cellphones back, there was no excuse.
Poltergeist was out of commission. As was Ogre.

Not to say that Io crying wasn't "different" (I wouldn't say out of character). But at the very least, Daichi had no demons and Io only had Pixie.

Plus Daichi isn't that out of character to me.

For now though, this is the beginning of the story, cut them some slack, man. They're totally not used to this. I guarantee you won't "just move on" when the world gets attacked by demons and you have no fricking clue where your family is.
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Old 2013-04-12, 01:18   Link #409
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Poltergeist was out of commission. As was Ogre.

Not to say that Io crying wasn't "different" (I wouldn't say out of character). But at the very least, Daichi had no demons and Io only had Pixie.
Io didn't even try to summon Pixie. At the very least she could have used it to heal Byakko. Even Daichi tried to summon his demon to help out Hibiki.

Hell, the Itsumade are low enough level that even Pixie could take it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
For now though, this is the beginning of the story, cut them some slack, man. They're totally not used to this. I guarantee you won't "just move on" when the world gets attacked by demons and you have no fricking clue where your family is.
Ah, the "it's possible in real life so it's a valid excuse" logic. Then let's bring another inconcistency to light.

Io was capable to summoning not one, but two demons in episode 1 under circumstances far more grave: in the collapsed subway when a demon attacked, and again against Dubhe to protect herself and save Daichi. All of this is within the anime itself, so I don't even need the source material for my argument here.

You can cling to your no demons left excuse for Daichi, but what's Io's excuse for doing nothing at all? Because her hometown is a wreck?
Sorry, no. She held up much more strongly in the last episode. She can cry if she finds her parents to be dead, but not now.

Basically all this episode really amounted to was that Hibiki got to show off his protagonist plot armor again. This is not good writing.
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Old 2013-04-12, 01:24   Link #410
Angelic Cross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I guarantee you won't "just move on" when the world gets attacked by demons and you have no fricking clue where your family is.
I never said Io should "move on." I said Io should get all weak-kneed and start sobbing like she did in the episode. As I pointed out, there was only one point in the game where she does break into tears and that was pretty much worse than what she's seen in this episode. Yes, Io is worried about her family, but she wouldn't just start crying or spending that long brooding. The Io I saw in the games would have at least been trying to help out in that shelter when she couldn't find any news about her family.
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Old 2013-04-12, 01:35   Link #411
Requiem-x
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Glad to know others are also disliking the treatment Io is getting, though I'm still hopeful she'll come around. At least she comes out as sympathetic instead of annoying as all hell (You know exactly who I'm talking about).

Spoiler for Spoiler:


Anyway, it also seems
Spoiler for Spoiler:

Last edited by james0246; 2013-04-12 at 09:39. Reason: please do not post spoilers/hints for future events...
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Old 2013-04-12, 02:34   Link #412
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Hell, the Itsumade are low enough level that even Pixie could take it out.
How do you know this? This isn't the game. Anyway, to "try and summon pixie" she had to have been there, but at the moment she was someplace else processing the fact that she has no clue where her parents were at. Is it different from the game? Yes. Is it unnatural? No not really. Should she have been better than this? You seem to think so, I'm a bit more optimistic and say she'll get her chance yet. It's just the second episode. She has barely had any time to adjust to her situation in just 15 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Io was capable to summoning not one, but two demons in episode 1 under circumstances far more grave: in the collapsed subway when a demon attacked, and again against Dubhe to protect herself and save Daichi.
Right, so a life or death situation where the fight-or-flight response is in full effect is "more grave" than feeling utterly powerless because your life is crashing down and you have no idea where your family is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Basically all this episode really amounted to was that Hibiki got to show off his protagonist plot armor again. This is not good writing.
Not exactly saying it is. But you won't attract any viewers if your main character keeps on failing.
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Old 2013-04-12, 03:22   Link #413
Von Himmel
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Hell, the Itsumade are low enough level that even Pixie could take it out.
A trained Pixie, sure.

A pixie who just got summoned yesterday without grinding anything? Nope.

..while zio is effective, a couple of hits might killed her off since level difference = bigger damage.

It's a shame that both Daichi and Io seems useless. They should really get more demons imagine if something like this happens again and they don't have demons in their arsenal.

Quote:
amato still sounds waaaaay older than he really is, though.
Huh, I'm more disturbed at Hibiki's voice in some part. He sounds way too old sometimes.
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Old 2013-04-12, 04:53   Link #414
BoyTitan
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I kinda felt the voice acting was pretty weak and took away from the impact of scenes. What was with all the gasping and grunting. Then gain I watch no 6,Blast of tempest,Psycho Pass and I am currently watching attack on Titan. So maybe I am just used to more powerful voice acting. Never played the games so that is my only complaint.

The girl as long as she does not stay useless was actually good character development she was rattled by her parents death thus did not want to do anything. Tho this could have been displayed better. Give her some lines of whats the point of fighting all their loved ones are dead something. It was still handled decently as long as she does something next episode.
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Old 2013-04-12, 05:06   Link #415
Angelic Cross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Not exactly saying it is. But you won't attract any viewers if your main character keeps on failing.
Who said anything about failing? How about, I don't know, having all three of them working together being the reason for success instead of just Hibiki frying everything with a Ziodyne from a Lvl. 53 Avatar.
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Old 2013-04-12, 05:09   Link #416
Shadow5YA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
How do you know this? This isn't the game. Anyway, to "try and summon pixie" she had to have been there, but at the moment she was someplace else processing the fact that she has no clue where her parents were at. Is it different from the game? Yes. Is it unnatural? No not really. Should she have been better than this? You seem to think so, I'm a bit more optimistic and say she'll get her chance yet. It's just the second episode. She has barely had any time to adjust to her situation in just 15 minutes.
Huh? Since when does viewer time = story time? You do realize that they were driven to Ariake, driven back, then stayed at a church for some time, right? Do you really think all that happened within the span of 15 minutes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Right, so a life or death situation where the fight-or-flight response is in full effect is "more grave" than feeling utterly powerless because your life is crashing down and you have no idea where your family is.
All of their lives are crashing down. They've gone from taking a practice test to traveling on the road and living on the streets. They haven't been home since then.

And they were in the same building! How is Io in "someplace else"? The Itsumade attacked the church where they were all staying. This is a life-and-death situation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Not exactly saying it is. But you won't attract any viewers if your main character keeps on failing.
You seem to be under this false assumption that only Hibiki is the main character or something, which is way off the mark.

While it is Hibiki's, the protagonist's, perspective they're all main characters. Hibiki, Daichi, Io, Joe, Yamato, Ronaldo, Makoto, Airi, Fumi, Otome, Hinako, Jungo, and Keita are the major characters of Devil Survivor 2. They are all just as important as Hibiki, and at certain points in the story some of them are even more important.
A bit of trivia - all their profiles and birthdays are arranged so that each one of them represents part of the astrological zodiac. They are all the stars of the show, not just Hibiki.

You're right that it's not appealing if the main character keeps failing, but that applies to all the main characters. Hibiki's success does not mean the others have to be useless. They can - and should - all play an important role together. I don't follow your silly either-or fallacy at all. Why are you arguing as if Io and Daichi fighting alongside Hibiki would make him useless?

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-04-12 at 05:21.
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Old 2013-04-12, 06:43   Link #417
RWBladewing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem-x View Post
Glad to know others are also disliking the treatment Io is getting, though I'm still hopeful she'll come around. At least she comes out as sympathetic instead of annoying as all hell (You know exactly who I'm talking about).
Yes, yes I am pretty confident I do know exactly who you're talking about. I liked Io so much because she was such a sharp contrast to that character, yet here they seem intent on turning her into that character. Sigh. Just have to wait until next episode to see if things get better I guess.
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Old 2013-04-12, 07:02   Link #418
jeroz
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Though in all seriousness, I'm still sad that this show is only 1-cour. They could do a lot of fun meta things involving Hibiki being NewGame+ and such, because right now he's exactly like how I approach battles: stomping everything on the way with just high level demons and ignore everyone else.

Actually, I wonder if they will get to the point where they can summon 2 demons at the same time. It would've make it even more badass than persona.
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Old 2013-04-12, 08:28   Link #419
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
You seem to be under this false assumption that only Hibiki is the main character or something, which is way off the mark.

While it is Hibiki's, the protagonist's, perspective they're all main characters. Hibiki, Daichi, Io, Joe, Yamato, Ronaldo, Makoto, Airi, Fumi, Otome, Hinako, Jungo, and Keita are the major characters of Devil Survivor 2. They are all just as important as Hibiki, and at certain points in the story some of them are even more important.
A bit of trivia - all their profiles and birthdays are arranged so that each one of them represents part of the astrological zodiac. They are all the stars of the show, not just Hibiki.

You're right that it's not appealing if the main character keeps failing, but that applies to all the main characters. Hibiki's success does not mean the others have to be useless. They can - and should - all play an important role together. I don't follow your silly either-or fallacy at all. Why are you arguing as if Io and Daichi fighting alongside Hibiki would make him useless?
I haven't played the video game but this is the anime. At only one cour it might make sense to focus your story on only one main character and have the rest be supporting.

Trying to do too much in one cour is not necessarily a good thing, so if the director has to change the story a bit to fit it into the number of episodes allocated then I would say that might be the best choice.
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Old 2013-04-12, 08:33   Link #420
II Maestro
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1 cour, thats a bit rush it's only the 1st day out of 7 days before the world disappears.

Makes you wonder how this will end.
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