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Old 2013-04-12, 08:40   Link #421
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I haven't played the video game but this is the anime. At only one cour it might make sense to focus your story on only one main character and have the rest be supporting.

Trying to do too much in one cour is not necessarily a good thing, so if the director has to change the story a bit to fit it into the number of episodes allocated then I would say that might be the best choice.
I know why they're doing this, but that doesn't suddenly make this a good adaptation.

All it does is confirm my fears that 13 episodes is indeed far too short for this story, and that it will be a mediocre video game adaptation like the many before it.

It's a shame because the animation quality has been quite the treat. Yasuda designs intact, decent soundtrack, and consistent quality? If I turned my brain off, this would have been quite the eye candy.
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Old 2013-04-12, 08:49   Link #422
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
I know why they're doing this, but that doesn't suddenly make this a good adaptation.

All it does is confirm my fears that 13 episodes is indeed far too short for this story, and that it will be a mediocre video game adaptation like the many before it.

It's a shame because the animation quality has been quite the treat. Yasuda designs intact, decent soundtrack, and consistent quality? If I turned my brain off, this would have been quite the eye candy.
Well 13 episodes might be too short for a perfect adaption of the video game, but it might not be too short for what the director is trying to do with it.

I know it is hard not to compare it to the video game but it might be best to look at it as its own thing.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:01   Link #423
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well 13 episodes might be too short for a perfect adaption of the video game, but it might not be too short for what the director is trying to do with it.

I know it is hard not to compare it to the video game but it might be best to look at it as its own thing.
Then you have the protagonist summoning a powerful demon for no reason other than having main character plot armor and his friends being just about as pointless as the fodder his Byakko just killed.

But at least they look cool... gee I wonder where they came from?

And then the anime only audience's interest is piqued not because of the anime itself, but because it's successfully serves as shameless promotion for the source material.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:08   Link #424
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It's a good thing demons don't need time to heal outside battle in the game.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:12   Link #425
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Then you have the protagonist summoning a powerful demon for no reason other than having main character plot armor and his friends being just about as pointless as the fodder his Byakko just killed.
The protagonist summoned a powerful demon to defeat the bad guys, how is this a problem? As for his friends we're only at episode 2 and the real story hasn't even begun yet, but even if they end up being useless in fights they will still provide a motivation for Hibiki.

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But at least they look cool... gee I wonder where they came from?
...we'll learn in time? o__o Why are people so impatient...

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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
And then the anime only audience's interest is piqued not because of the anime itself, but because it's successfully serves as shameless promotion for the source material.
Nah, I'm not interested in the game. (I'm not a gamer.) I'm just here for the anime.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:15   Link #426
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Then you have the protagonist summoning a powerful demon for no reason other than having main character plot armor and his friends being just about as pointless as the fodder his Byakko just killed.
So it was the protagonist who summoned the demon and saved everyone. Not really sure why that automatically makes it bad.

Also I don't see his friends as pointless and I expect they will get stronger and he will need them.

Granted maybe I am not the best person to defend the show because I am not that invested in it in the first place. I am just saying just because the anime does it differently from the video game does not make it bad.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:26   Link #427
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
So it was the protagonist who summoned the demon and saved everyone. Not really sure why that automatically makes it bad.

Also I don't see his friends as pointless and I expect they will get stronger and he will need them.

Granted maybe I am not the best person to defend the show because I am not that invested in it in the first place. I am just saying just because the anime does it differently from the video game does not make it bad.
Huh? The point isn't that it's different. It's that it's not well written.

Why is an inexperienced protagonist so powerful despite being... you know, inexperienced? This is a cliché that I would find in a generic shonen jump manga that's in danger of getting cancelled.

I never said every change was bad. I thought Io saving Daichi from the truck crash was a much better idea than having him conveniently jump out with no injuries like he did in the game.

This whole inexperienced yet powerful but reluctant protagonist direction, however? I don't know how you can think this is well written. I'm not getting any sense that Hibiki earned or grew into his role: just that the word of god (or gods in this case) dictates he must have power while Io and Daichi get none.
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Old 2013-04-12, 09:47   Link #428
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Why is an inexperienced protagonist so powerful despite being... you know, inexperienced? This is a cliché that I would find in a generic shonen jump manga that's in danger of getting cancelled.
I never said the series was a masterpiece of writing but no offense nothing people are telling me about the video game sounds that marvelous either.

But I hardly think what you describe is the worst crime in writing. Plenty of stories have cliches it is how they are executed that counts.

So he has a natural talent for summoning powerful demons that explains how he can do these things despite inexperience. Honestly it is not like this is based on a real skill so it is not outside the realms of possibility that a character can be so strong from offset for me. So no I don't see anything bad about the writing here.

Also you are assuming the entire story is going to be him killing all the demons and that there were be no struggles in all of this. Just because he is powerful and has natural talent doesn't mean he can't be inexperienced in other ways. Or that he won't have to rely on his friends in the end.
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Old 2013-04-12, 10:27   Link #429
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A bit slower episode this time.
More on the explaining side.
At least they made some things clear.
The whole demon thing has nice potential.
That demonstration with Byakko was really nice.
Interesting episode.
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Old 2013-04-12, 10:54   Link #430
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I like the animation and the voice acting very much. It's obvious they're not trying for a serious adaptation of the game here, which...is fine, because it would be very hard to adapt this particular game without making changes. The whole kidnapped by JPs and being told doomsome things and making deals stuff is fine. I also rather liked the way that we got to see people in the emergency shelters; it's good that we're being reminded that people other than the main characters exist. I also liked details like the many people hanging back in suspicion/shock of Hibiki. The scene with the red-shirted man and Yamato was also good stuff. Nice choice.

There were bad things about this episode too. Notably, the way that things were focused on Hibiki and "his power". It's almost as if the series has forgotten that Hibiki isn't the only one with a demon-summoning phone. Even though Makoto and the rest of JPs can clearly summon demons, Daichi and Io would too if the anime's plot would allow them to do so right now, and that the rest of the demon-summoning apps are surely not all on the phones of dead people. I can buy Yamato trying extra hard to recruit a Byakko-summoning Hibiki, and I can buy Hibiki making a deal with him, and being persuaded by various events to stand and fight, but there was still a strange emphasis on Hibiki that felt forced. His special ability here in the anime isn't supposed to be that he's a demon tamer but that he is able to summon a cool Byakko.

So basically the writing was clumsy there and was hitting us over the head with the "the protagonist is the protagonist because he's special and has a power nobody else does which he didn't ask for!" stick. Hopefully it won't last beyond this ep and they'll have finished telling us how special the protagonist is, at least for a while.

I'm a bit concerned about Io's characterisation, or rather, the fandom's potential reaction to it. She wasn't adapted ideally in this ep, but I consider it to have been mostly perfectly acceptable in light of the changes being made to the plot for the sake of the adaptation, and surely she'll have her time to shine later. (If she doesn't get a chance to shine, I will be annoyed.) I would hate it if anime-only viewers fixated on this ep when weighing her up as a character and went down the "she's useless and all she does is cry!!! she said so herself!" route and disregard anything else. I quite liked the way they handled her stress and distress in the emergency shelter. The way she reacted at finding out about Ariake seemed overdone, though.

(Edited out something after finding out it would likely infringe the spoiler policy.)

Last edited by GoldenLand; 2013-05-02 at 18:50.
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Old 2013-04-12, 11:14   Link #431
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would it be bad if I said I am follwing the series because I liked Byakko's design?
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Old 2013-04-12, 11:49   Link #432
RWBladewing
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post

I'm a bit concerned about Io's characterisation, or rather, the fandom's potential reaction to it. She wasn't adapted ideally in this ep, but I consider it to have been mostly perfectly acceptable in light of the changes being made to the plot for the sake of the adaptation, and surely she'll have her time to shine later. (If she doesn't get a chance to shine, I will be annoyed.) I would hate it if anime-only viewers fixated on this ep when weighing her up as a character and went down the "she's useless and all she does is cry!!! she said so herself!" route and disregard anything else. I quite liked the way they handled her stress and distress in the emergency shelter. The way she reacted at finding out about Ariake seemed overdone, though.
I agree with Io's characterization making sense in the context of what they've done so far, and I am not a huge stickler for adaptation faithfulness (I loved the Umineko anime even after reading the novels), but when they change events, and then change characters' personalities to accomodate those changes, I feel like the point of an "adaptation" eventually starts to become lost for me. Here's to hoping she gets her chance to shine soon.
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Old 2013-04-12, 11:58   Link #433
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ame spoilers, don't read if you're an anime only viewer:
Spoiler:


Oh while I do love Byakko, I hope that he'll use other demons in later episode
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Old 2013-04-12, 13:39   Link #434
Angelic Cross
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Originally Posted by erdii View Post
would it be bad if I said I am follwing the series because I liked Byakko's design?
No, not at all. Kazuma Kaneko's demon designs are pretty awesome.
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Old 2013-04-12, 13:47   Link #435
finallyanime
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Huh? The point isn't that it's different. It's that it's not well written.

Why is an inexperienced protagonist so powerful despite being... you know, inexperienced? This is a cliché that I would find in a generic shonen jump manga that's in danger of getting cancelled.

I never said every change was bad. I thought Io saving Daichi from the truck crash was a much better idea than having him conveniently jump out with no injuries like he did in the game.

This whole inexperienced yet powerful but reluctant protagonist direction, however? I don't know how you can think this is well written. I'm not getting any sense that Hibiki earned or grew into his role: just that the word of god (or gods in this case) dictates he must have power while Io and Daichi get none.
I do see what you're saying, but I disagree. I don't think it's bad for the main character to be unknowingly powerful, but the real problem here is we're used to seeing characters develop & I'm betting in the next episode there's gonna be a foe he can barely handle; so I'm still hesitant to even say he's powerful. Instead maybe "chosen."

Before I interrupted myself, I think we're used to seeing a character relatively weak, THEN getting stronger. Obviously the protagonists gonna get stronger, but the start did seem kind of ridiculous.

Idk, just like I said on twitter, this show's terribly mediocre thus far. As soon as I hear that generic battle music in the first episode, I knew that was it. It's a shame because the beginning have me a very Gantz feel & was quite well done and abrupt in the right way...but anticlimactic as soon as the demons were summoned.

3/10 so far & that's being generous

P.S. some might hate me for this, but Byakko's design is so boring. The most interesting thing was the demonic ice cream cone because I refuse to call it by its real name
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Old 2013-04-12, 14:01   Link #436
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
And then the anime only audience's interest is piqued not because of the anime itself, but because it's successfully serves as shameless promotion for the source material.
Isn't this what all adaptations normally are though? Regardless of quality anyway.
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Old 2013-04-12, 14:39   Link #437
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Why is an inexperienced protagonist so powerful despite being... you know, inexperienced?
There is a good reason for this. And he IS inexperienced. I mean, if you give an inexperienced guy a machine gun, he'd still be able to wreak a lot of havoc.

Last edited by Dengar; 2013-04-12 at 15:33.
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Old 2013-04-12, 16:54   Link #438
Shadow5YA
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There is a good reason for this. And he IS inexperienced. I mean, if you give an inexperienced guy a machine gun, he'd still be able to wreak a lot of havoc.
No... there really isn't. Did we play the same game, or are you basing your knowledge off other games like the first one and assuming it's the same? He is not the king of bel.

Hibiki is a protagonist that's supposed to be praised for his strength of character. He's supposed to be a charismatic lead in a cast full of uniquely strong characters. The reason why a commander-in-chief of a large government organization was interested in such a common citizen like Hibiki isn't because he has a machinegun - it's because he is supposed to prove himself as one of the most competent characters, being able to use his properly and direct others to use theirs to the best of their ability as well. The early Yamato normally wouldn't give them the time of day, nor would he entrust them with top secret information so easily.

Once again, there is no excuse for why Daichi and Io were written to be conveniently unable to fight. They could have all played an important role, with Hibiki keeping his position as protagonist by coordinating a team attack between the three. They don't all have to powerhouse through - Io could even stay back and heal Byakko at Hibiki's command. At least this way all of them could have shined with Hibiki still being the brightest of the bunch.

Last edited by Shadow5YA; 2013-04-12 at 17:48.
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Old 2013-04-12, 17:18   Link #439
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
No... there really isn't. Did we play the same game, or are you basing your knowledge off other games like the first one and assuming it's the same? He is not the king of bel.
The last time I tried to explained this it went into spoiler territory, so sadly, I cannot. I also noticed you did nothing to refute my machine gun analogy.
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Old 2013-04-12, 17:37   Link #440
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No... there really isn't. Did we play the same game, or are you basing your knowledge off other games like the first one and assuming it's the same? He is not the king of bel.
Urgh, and here's the reason behind everyone's problems. Let's get this straight; Kishi is not literally adapting the game for you, but the NARRATIVE. And so far, he's ticking off the key plot point check list well enough, even if the details are different, even if events don't go the same way.

If we wanted to care so much about every last detail, we'd play the freaking game already. Don't attach preconcieved notions about the game to an anime's take on material. It's not the same thing as literally adapting a manga or book that already has a structured narrative for a director to take from, because the game's narrative is broken up, segmented to follow the player's progression.

And we're only two episodes in people! Two episodes in! What's to say what Kishi will include, and what he trims out? We've still got a good 11 episodes to go!

Your points in Daichi and Io though, are fair enough. There's very little balance to the character dynamics at present.
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