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Old 2013-04-22, 13:07   Link #1061
calorie
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Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.
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Old 2013-04-22, 13:17   Link #1062
Kaoru Chujo
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
...That being said there could be a far greater threat to the Gargantians that Ledo and Chamber might have to face in the future.
Yes. From the sea galaxies, from the Hidauze, and/or from Avalon. But first, from human relationships in a normal society, particularly a relationship with a nubile female. Please.

I actually find the Avalon society the most interesting. It does seem as if Ledo has been a soldier since birth, since his "military service time" was given as 16 years (expressed in days by Chamber in ep1), and the official site says he is 16 years old. Having survived this far, he is apparently in line for a furlough on Avalon, for rest and reproduction. Sounds like quite a dystopia. A society that doesn't say "thank you" much, but in which everyone just fulfils their roles. I'd like to see the rulers, and how they fit into this scheme.
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Old 2013-04-22, 13:25   Link #1063
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Originally Posted by calorie View Post
Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.
Limited energy means if a space snail appears then he's screwed but it's pretty clear the technology level of Chamber is so much higher than Gargantia that it's the equivalent of turning on the radio to blow away the pirates.
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Old 2013-04-22, 13:26   Link #1064
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Originally Posted by calorie View Post
Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.
I don't think that the writers or Ledo & Chamber have forgotten about the problem. They're just dealing with a more immediate threat. Now that the immediate threat has been (temporarily?) dealt with, I expect Chamber's diminishing energy resources to become an issue again. In addition, the battles provide an in-story reason for the issue to come sooner and with a greater urgency.
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Old 2013-04-22, 13:28   Link #1065
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by calorie View Post
Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.

I think he did. I missed the line but a lot of other people confirmed it.

Anyways I am not saying Chamber won't run out of power, I just don't know if I think that will be the greatest cause of conflict Ledo faces. This is a mecha series and somehow I can't see Chamber losing his power until we are near the end of the story.

Chamber losing his power source at the end may cause Ledo to make another difficult decision. For example if Ledo needs to use up Chamber's power in a decisive battle to save Gargantia but then gives up his chance to get home (or something along those lines).

Anyways I just don't think anything in Gargantia will lead to real conflict for Ledo so that is why I think there has to be some external threat and I just feel the aliens or Ledo's own people will be that threat.

I also think not being able to rely on Chamber is only interesting in terms of fighting skills, it doesn't necessarily cause Ledo to make any difficult decisions and that is what I am hoping from this story in the end.
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Old 2013-04-22, 13:40   Link #1066
LostSome
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
I actually find the Avalon society the most interesting. It does seem as if Ledo has been a soldier since birth, since his "military service time" was given as 16 years (expressed in days by Chamber in ep1), and the official site says he is 16 years old. Having survived this far, he is apparently in line for a furlough on Avalon, for rest and reproduction. Sounds like quite a dystopia. A society that doesn't say "thank you" much, but in which everyone just fulfils their roles. I'd like to see the rulers, and how they fit into this scheme.
I hope they won`t go for the "evil" rulers here...
I can definitely see enough reasons for problems between Avalon and the natives without the bad rulers excuses.

By fighting without the laser show, the Gargantians managed to keep the fact that they have a superweapon from space a secret for now.
In that fight, Chamber looked and acted more like a "normal" mecha and the Queen seemed more interested in Ledo`s skills and "aggressive" style.
I think she will be more interested in making Ledo join her then revenge after this.
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Old 2013-04-22, 14:34   Link #1067
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I wouldn't be suprised if Chamber turns against Ledo since Ledo is no longer prioritizing his return.
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Old 2013-04-22, 15:04   Link #1068
Iby
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BTW the writer of the 3rd episode (Gan Saaku according to ANN) is known for Guilty Crown spin-off manga (Dancing Endlaves) and novel (Princess of Deadpool).
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Old 2013-04-22, 15:22   Link #1069
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For character growth, and the presumed plot progression, I almost feel like it's a given that Chamber is going to run out of energy at some point. It's possible they manage to re-energize him for the finale, but I think the safe money is for a number of episodes where Ledo won't be able to rely on the "godlike" powers of Chamber.
Hmm this actually occured to me as well but if he is not going to use Chamber's laser attacks and such , i wonder if this gonna happen. But if he is forced to fight another survivor mecha in order to protect Gargantia or fight Hidiazu its a different matter.

Also it would be fun to see Ledo using normal Yunboroid and showing his genius skills
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Old 2013-04-22, 15:46   Link #1070
frodonk
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the energy issue isn't a big deal. its easy enough to make it appear that the "low energy" they were talking about was energy consumption in terms of going into space and traveling back to their homeworld, and not in terms of flying around and using lasers and lights for blowing up rusty warships.
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Old 2013-04-22, 17:50   Link #1071
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I wouldn't be suprised if Chamber turns against Ledo since Ledo is no longer prioritizing his return.
Good point. Chamber is most definitely programmed to obey Ledo's officers, he only listens to him as long as no one ranked higher in the chain of command gives a different order.

So if Ledo really goes native he should get help to "modify" Chamber's priorities asap. I wonder if he actually has the knowledge to do so or if he can do that without causing Chamber to automatically attack him.

Let's just hope that Chamber won't reprogram himself through "the power of love" after a fierce battle against his former master.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:08   Link #1072
Ashaman
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My main question regarding this episode is this: if the expected result is the same (driving out the pirates with Chamber’s help) then why in layers of hell did the Gargantian leaders not ordering Ledo & Chamber to just go attacking the enemy and disable all their weapons ASAP and scare those pirates enough to pull back? Two or three pirates can get killed in the process which doesn’t make it excessive, just like how the Gargantians want. All those properties (and lives?) lost on Gargantia’s side during the battle are really really unnecessary and can be easily avoided with very minimal casualties. *sigh* IMO what we get in this episode is such a stupid strategy by those Gargantian leaders -_-
Because there is merit in them participating themselves.

If Chamber is the sole combatant, he displays incredible power - weather enough to deter future attacks is up for debate.

However, as far as Gargantia is concerned, Chamber and Ledo are going to be leaving at some point.

And what's going to happen then is the pirates/whoever are going to target them for revenge.

However, by fighting themselves and making Chamber take a back seat as much as possible, it limits the specticle of Chamber and maintains the status-quo as mcuh as possible because they continue to show that they can defend themselves without relying entirely on the limited time only robot. Plus, the less complete the pirate defeat is, the less humiliation and desire for revenge accumulates.

Also they don't properly trust Ledo, so leaving the fleets survival completely in his hands is probably something they want to avoid.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:11   Link #1073
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by calorie View Post
Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.
What he said was that Ledo would run out of supplies (ie food and water) so he should go back to cryosleep for now. I don't think it concerned the mecha's energy reserve, which seems to be unlimited for all intents and purposes.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:12   Link #1074
Anh_Minh
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No "pacifist stuff." Cool calculation from within a cultural context. And the difference isn't holes vs. vaporizing, it's struggling to kill a few people, vs. killing everybody and destroying their boats. The latter makes revenge necessary.
So why haven't the pirates incurred revenge against themselves? I mean, if we're going to be so proud as to be irrational?

Besides, Ledo could have sunk one ship as a warning to others. What galls me is how much they'll bend over backward to preserve enemy lives. That's no way to treat enemies, even if you don't plan on killing as many of them as you can.

And it's especially true when the idea of killing Ledo didn't faze them.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:15   Link #1075
lightbringer
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It's true that it's perverse how they have no problem at all with the idea of throwing Ledo overboard and stealing his mecha, but heaven forbid a pirate is harmed. But then these kind of double standards are, ironically, very true to life.

Fortunately they don't all think that way. Bellows and Amy made an effort to reach out to him, and Bridget seems to have come around after being initially cautious.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:19   Link #1076
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I don't think that Gargantia is irrational in their use of Ledo. Those that do, do not take into account the dynamic nature of Ledo in an already established relationship between the pirates and Gargantia. Looking back at the second episode, one can discern four things. (1) The "pirates" aren't like Captain Jack Sparrow, but rather a fleet of ships similar to Gargantia. (2) Bellows considers it her mistake to stray too far from the fleet. (3) The pirates only seek equipment, not necessarily each others' lives. It's especially poignant that Bellows expects the pirates to leave after getting the equipment they want. Unfortunately, they are after her skills. (4) Their primary objective during this particular raid was to recruit Bellows. Thus the pirate ripping off the girl's clothes was an intimidation attempt on Bellows.

Unlike in space where the two sides are out for each other, the relationship between the two sides on Earth (Gargantia and Pirates) is more humanistic. On Earth, finding wreakage from the past is essential to maintaining military superiority. Bellows has shown herself to be an excellent finder, and it's no wonder the pirates want her. After all, Bellows mentions that showing weapons off is a sign of negotiation. Therefore, one can conclude that the relationship between Gargantia and the pirates is one of that between city-states. Each wants to remain independent and acknowledge each other as at least politically equal. Of course, because of the pirates' military superiority, they can show off, have dibs on certain places and so forth.

I think everyone can agree that Ledo breaks the taboo of taking lives last episode. I actually find it Amy's fault for giving Ledo the wrong impression of the pirates as enemies to be killed. So what should Gargantia, which has never faced a situation like this before, do with Ledo and the upcoming pirates' revenge?

Using Ledo to wipe out the pirates would only make sense if their relationship was like the war in space. If Ledo hadn't existed, Gargantia would have probably "spilled blood" (Fearokk would have probably sacrificed his life as Lukkage wanted) or offered something of value to regain the trust between them. But Ledo offers them an alternative. Therefore, Gargantia made the decision "to show off" Ledo to the pirates. According to the established relationship, this would result in better negotiations for Gargantia. Did this plan work out? I will let you decide. But I argue that Gargantia made the 'obvious' (given the established relationship between pirates and Gargantia) choice to not let Ledo wipe out the pirate fleet.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:19   Link #1077
justinstrife
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So why haven't the pirates incurred revenge against themselves? I mean, if we're going to be so proud as to be irrational?

Besides, Ledo could have sunk one ship as a warning to others. What galls me is how much they'll bend over backward to preserve enemy lives. That's no way to treat enemies, even if you don't plan on killing as many of them as you can.

And it's especially true when the idea of killing Ledo didn't faze them.
The whole thing is screwy in my opinion. They are willing to sacrifice some of their own, to appease the pirates in the hopes that they won't kill everyone in gargantia someday. You don't get the bully to leave you alone, by letting him kick your azz and take your lunch money everyday. Eventually he will want more. Evil will always target the weak first.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:22   Link #1078
Jan-Poo
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but heaven forbid a pirate is harmed
Let's not exaggerate now, they didn't show any pity for the massacre Ledo just did (apart Amy perhaps), they were just worrying about possible retaliations.

Besides they never actually said to Ledo "don't kill any of them". It's more of a personal interpretation from his part than anything else. They told him "don't fight excessively" "if you can avoid it, don't kill". Perhaps Ledo thought that given his superiority and how weak the enemy was there was simply nothing that would deem necessary a kill.

But please stop saying that it was them who put an absolute veto on killing, it's not true.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:28   Link #1079
Xion Valkyrie
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It's true that it's perverse how they have no problem at all with the idea of throwing Ledo overboard and stealing his mecha, but heaven forbid a pirate is harmed. But then these kind of double standards are, ironically, very true to life.

Fortunately they don't all think that way. Bellows and Amy made an effort to reach out to him, and Bridget seems to have come around after being initially cautious.
Only Amy and Bellows were against killing the pirates like what Ledo did because it was 'morally wrong'. The higher ups only did not like how things turned out because they feared retaliation from the pirates. They have no problems killing pirates when it came to defending themselves but they'd have preferred not to even get to that point in the first place.
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Old 2013-04-22, 18:46   Link #1080
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Oh yeah, by the way, didn't Chamber say something about limited energy reserves in the first episode? It's as if they've all forgotten about that by now -- they're blowing up shit with lasers and flying where in the beginning Chamber was concerned about even getting up and moving around IIRC.
They mentioned preserving unit functionality and "burning out", not necessarily running out of energy. But honestly, considering the firepower they have their disposal, a few lasers at a low setting probably isn't going to affect their remaining supply too much.

Keep in mind that they probably have some sort of long-term renewable energy (fusion at the very least), and this is a machine than can traverse long distances in a vacuum and potentially reach escape velocity.
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