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Old 2013-07-31, 12:30   Link #41
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by InfinityDragonGod View Post
I see thanks for answering.
But is equipping two really the limit?
No one said there was any limit.

Dusk Taker was limited in that the tools he used covered an entire arm each, and he only had two arms. If a Duel Avatar has more than two hands, it can hold more than two weapons, and an armor item is worn rather than held.
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Old 2013-08-07, 01:01   Link #42
MeisterBabylon
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Like he has 2 Hand slots, and from there I dare extrapolate 2 Arm/Shoulder, a Chest, a Backpack, 2 Legs, 2 Feet, a Head slot and maybe even a couple of Trinket slots hanging off the Waist slot.

(Wearing all that would however make you a veritable Gundam in looks, and probably cost you in terms of Weight and hence Mobility.)

Considering that you can buy EAs from a Shop, it may be possible that there are Initial EAs which are soulbound, the kind that are crafted by other players and maybe some that drop off mobs, like for example, the Mystic Reins. The latter 2 would be tradeable and for the former, completely destroyed when you are defeated even if you didn't die. A bit like losing your ship if you get ganked in EVE, it ensures that EAs made don't stay forever in circulation and eventually depress the economy. It certainly would explain why we don't see EAs every crowing where.

I love this thread! Gave me a distillation of so many rules for making sure my fic stays consistent.


EDIT:

The Burst economy is an intriguing thing to study. It has a million sinks, relies heavily on a veritable Ponzi scheme for fresh points, and yet has STILL not imploded on itself as newbies are vaporized before they can replace themselves.

Just where are the points coming from? As theorized, its probably coming from the UNF, killing monsters and doing something is just about enough to offset the net loss of points consumed.

A much darker interpretation is that the true game mods are still around, freely seeding players independent of the legions, having them be the sacrificial lambs to keep the Ponzi scheme going. This assumes that canon has incomplete information, and that there are more parties at play in AW than we're let on, like the Society.

But why? Why does AW exist? Or even, why does someone stay anonymous and keep feeding fresh blood into the game? This is the future Japan, where birthrates have fallen so low that you realistically could eventually run out of children to feed the game!

The clue may lie in the fact that all the world's internet seem to be able to be compromised in the exact same manner, perhaps this 'internet' is in fact a Seed World using VR technology from an age of swords.

Each successive world bore lessons for the next. The 9 levels form the foundation of the current world. There are enough checks and balance to ensure that the game continues to develop itself even without active developer involvement. Its design is reminincent of that game in history which led the development to the current neurolinkers.

Maybe, just maybe, all this originally was the plan of one man's desire to become a God, craft his world of eternal war, and have people live in it.
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Last edited by MeisterBabylon; 2013-08-07 at 01:21.
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Old 2013-08-07, 12:35   Link #43
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon View Post
Considering that you can buy EAs from a Shop, it may be possible that there are Initial EAs which are soulbound, the kind that are crafted by other players and maybe some that drop off mobs, like for example, the Mystic Reins. The latter 2 would be tradeable and for the former, completely destroyed when you are defeated even if you didn't die. A bit like losing your ship if you get ganked in EVE, it ensures that EAs made don't stay forever in circulation and eventually depress the economy. It certainly would explain why we don't see EAs every crowing where.
I don't think it's possible for the Pile-Driver to get erased from the game without retiring Cyan Pile. If it was, I will selectively ignore that as completely retarded.

As for initial equipment, Sky Raker started the game with the Gale Thruster, yet she was able to trade it to Silver Crow.

The way the economy remains undepressed is simple: Only truly powerful Enemies drop Enhanced Armaments, buying Enhanced Armaments from Shops is PROHIBITIVELY expensive, and it's a small chance for even one of a Burst Linker's items to drop when they die.


Quote:
I love this thread! Gave me a distillation of so many rules for making sure my fic stays consistent.
That was a great deal of the point, yes.


Quote:
A much darker interpretation is that the true game mods are still around, freely seeding players independent of the legions, having them be the sacrificial lambs to keep the Ponzi scheme going.
I think the veterans would start to realize that a lot of new players have turned up without any Parents that anyone else has ever heard of.


Spoiler for Chapter 9:



Quote:
This is the future Japan, where birthrates have fallen so low that you realistically could eventually run out of children to feed the game!
I have to admit, I didn't think of that.

I briefly wondered if Brain Burst is somehow intended to do anything about the low birth-rate, though I'm not sure what.

Perhaps the creator figures that rapidly-maturing the children will lead to Burst Linkers getting married and having kids sooner? And with Brain Burst highlighting their mental issues and incentivizing the healing process, those kids might grow up in stable homes and go on to have stable homes and more kids of their own?

...That would be rather hilariously unexpected.

Supposing that Noumi's mental issues somehow WERE magically healed when he lost Brain Burst, the theory is even stronger.


Quote:
Maybe, just maybe, all this originally was the plan of one man's desire to become a God, craft his world of eternal war, and have people live in it.
I doubt it. That wouldn't explain why Cosmo Corrupt was created and fielded a year or two after Brain Burst, even before the peace-treaty was created.

Nor would it explain the presence or purpose of the Imperial Palace and its final sacred treasure, the Fluctuating Light that is impossible to capture.


But going back to the idea that Japan's children population is very limited, let's also go back to the idea that Brain Burst is just one of THREE such programs. There was Accel Assault, and now also Cosmo Corrupt.

Who knows how CC is distributed, though. Perhaps it's anonynomously e-mailed to retired players of Brain Burst? But their parents or children would probably pick up on that?

Then again, Green Grandee learned about both other programs, so maybe...
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Old 2013-08-08, 07:44   Link #44
Masuzu
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I haven't read the novels, so my speculation is Green Grande = The Creator/Bruce Wayne.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:10   Link #45
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I haven't read the novels, so my speculation is Green Grande = The Creator/Bruce Wayne.
The novels make it clear that he isn't.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:15   Link #46
Tusjecht
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He stated that while he's one of the Originators, the true pioneers of AW without Parents and unlimited copy-install privileges, he's not a GM. The other Originator Kings would know even more information than he did.
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:18   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Tusjecht View Post
He stated that while he's one of the Originators, the true pioneers of AW without Parents and unlimited copy-install privileges, he's not a GM. The other Originator Kings would know even more information than he did.
"Even more", or "not everything I know, but some stuff I don't"?
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Old 2013-08-08, 12:27   Link #48
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I need the original line for that. :x It's a snippet from V9.
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Old 2013-08-09, 01:06   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
The novels make it clear that he isn't.
There goes my Kirito is Green Grande Theory.
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Old 2013-08-09, 01:09   Link #50
MeisterBabylon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I don't think it's possible for the Pile-Driver to get erased from the game without retiring Cyan Pile. If it was, I will selectively ignore that as completely retarded.

As for initial equipment, Sky Raker started the game with the Gale Thruster, yet she was able to trade it to Silver Crow.

The way the economy remains undepressed is simple: Only truly powerful Enemies drop Enhanced Armaments, buying Enhanced Armaments from Shops is PROHIBITIVELY expensive, and it's a small chance for even one of a Burst Linker's items to drop when they die.
Yes, that was the distinction you made with Built-in (what was the term again?) EAs that came with the Avatar versus the Shop ones. Those won't be destroyed or even forcibly removed from the player without some extraneous measures.

I was refering to shop and crafted EAs. Yes, they are rare and inexorbitantly expensive, but if the game has 7000 years of game time (7 year old MMO accelerated 1000 times by Bursting), that's a lot of farming time and time for making stuff. The amount of economy to be found in 7 millenia is going to be absolutely staggering, but somehow, it isn't there. Which is why I think either crafting doesn't exist (which would suck) or that there's a seperate sink mechanism that is removing crafted EAs and consumables from the economy (which is understandable) on top of high barriers to crafting.

Caveat: My statement lies outside of super-rares like the Lucidator () or the Jacket of Midnight () that take 1000 ingame years to craft or Super High School Waifu level crafting skill or some kind of EVE online training time frame x 1000.

Therefore, speculation: crafted or shop EAs are usually destroyed on defeat (instead of a permadeath state) which takes a lot of EAs out of circulation without needing to kill the player (which doesn't happen as often). Occasionally, one can salvage them by collecting the debris in the battle zone. Monster drop EAs are incredibly rare but they simply drop intact and can be looted by other avatars after defeat, which again deters people from running around with lots of monster drops equipped. In other words, the EverQuest take on player gear drops.

And the last tier of EAs, the built-in ones, those can persist through defeat and perhaps even death. But in return, they cannot be replicated and demand special rights in order to transfer them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I think the veterans would start to realize that a lot of new players have turned up without any Parents that anyone else has ever heard of.

Spoiler for Chapter 9:
True, that. And even for Grandee, where is he getting those extra points from?

It always boils back to "Ponzi scheme for Burst generation", but that is inherently flawed so much that it really boggles me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I have to admit, I didn't think of that.

I briefly wondered if Brain Burst is somehow intended to do anything about the low birth-rate, though I'm not sure what.

Perhaps the creator figures that rapidly-maturing the children will lead to Burst Linkers getting married and having kids sooner? And with Brain Burst highlighting their mental issues and incentivizing the healing process, those kids might grow up in stable homes and go on to have stable homes and more kids of their own?

...That would be rather hilariously unexpected.
Even I never thought that FAR. But it quite well for most parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Supposing that Noumi's mental issues somehow WERE magically healed when he lost Brain Burst, the theory is even stronger.
My pet theory that what happens in AW is that their mental scars are absorbed into the game when they "die" in game, leaving their unscarred selves running around IRL. The absorbed mental scars then either get sealed away, or become Force Ghosts of sorts, like Snow Black's best friend who's name eludes me atm that calls out to her new self to come save Black Lotus.

----

Btw, if you look at it in another way, the player has also "died" in real life, as their former selves have in effect completely vanished/reset, leaving a new albeit improved version behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I doubt it. That wouldn't explain why Cosmo Corrupt was created and fielded a year or two after Brain Burst, even before the peace-treaty was created.

Nor would it explain the presence or purpose of the Imperial Palace and its final sacred treasure, the Fluctuating Light that is impossible to capture.
I didn't know about these events, which is why my theory didn't account for them.

I'm immune to spoilers so don't feel bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
But going back to the idea that Japan's children population is very limited, let's also go back to the idea that Brain Burst is just one of THREE such programs. There was Accel Assault, and now also Cosmo Corrupt.

Who knows how CC is distributed, though. Perhaps it's anonynomously e-mailed to retired players of Brain Burst? But their parents or children would probably pick up on that?

Then again, Green Grandee learned about both other programs, so maybe...
Assuming that the mental scars continue to persist in AW in some form (I'm praying to hell and back that it does, or I have no fic to write!), that's a lot of information for anyone with access to disseminate any subsequent Human Improvement Programs to current and former members. And if BB has that level of security bypass to hack into any and every sensor in an area, getting said program into a person's implants would be piss easy, too.
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Last edited by MeisterBabylon; 2013-08-09 at 01:27.
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Old 2013-08-09, 01:14   Link #51
Masuzu
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Which is why I think either crafting doesn't exist (which would suck) or that there's a seperate sink mechanism that is removing crafted EAs and consumables from the economy (which is understandable) on top of high barriers to crafting.
I think crafting is only possible if it's part of your Avatar's focus, like Red Rider.
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Old 2013-08-09, 01:22   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Masuzu View Post
I think crafting is only possible if it's part of your Avatar's focus, like Red Rider.
1 person with 2000 years of crafting can still achieve a lot...
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Old 2013-08-09, 01:43   Link #53
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I don't know, but I'd be wary of being generous with crafted Arms.

Especially if not just anyone can make them.
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Old 2013-08-09, 02:07   Link #54
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That is very true. I'll continue the rest of this discussion in the ff thread.
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