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Old 2012-12-23, 13:35   Link #381
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
But you can promise that you won't drop it on us out of the blue if you ever come up with a replacement.
I can say that the feedback we've gotten in this thread will be considered as part of any conversation that may occur amongst the staff about future forum enhancements. But as for whether we will seek specific feedback before new systems are introduced... it depends on what is proposed. It is possible that we could introduce a new system for a time as an experiment (beta?) and seek feedback that way. The staff already do have really extensive debates any time a chance is proposed and the issues are considered from as many angles as possible. In addition, there may be limitations on what we can do based on vBulletin's configuration and our programming resources.

So... it's conceivable that there could be a new system that just appears some day. But it wouldn't be created without considering the feedback given here and any future feedback given after implementation. The issues with the rep system have been surfaced now, and people have discussed many of the positive aspects they wish to have preserved, so I highly doubt that anything proposed would discard these principles.
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Old 2012-12-23, 14:25   Link #382
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddo-kun View Post
A few days of a no reputation Animesuki.. hard to describe the feeling, but the place feels strangely relaxed. Looking forward to the full implementation of reputation removal, just a few days from now.
This, I'm feeling relaxed from it all. Even though I personally appreciate others thanking me/congratulating me/etc from the rep system. There would be those anonymous people who neg rep me. Without leaving who they were so I can discuss it with them.

Even though I rarely get those moments where i actually care about them. Overall it's just my average Animesuki adventures for me.
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Old 2012-12-23, 15:30   Link #383
NoirX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
This, I'm feeling relaxed from it all. Even though I personally appreciate others thanking me/congratulating me/etc from the rep system. There would be those anonymous people who neg rep me. Without leaving who they were so I can discuss it with them.

Even though I rarely get those moments where i actually care about them. Overall it's just my average Animesuki adventures for me.
Would be much better if the one who gives the positive or negative rep got recorded and shown its name to the respective person being given the rep. That way regardless of they include their names or not when giving rep, the one receiving the rep would still be able to see the giver's name.
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Old 2012-12-23, 15:47   Link #384
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I can say that the feedback we've gotten in this thread will be considered as part of any conversation that may occur amongst the staff about future forum enhancements.
Well, then, after reading some of the posts in this thread, here are things that I'd like you to consider:

Of course, my preference is to not have any replacement system at all, especially since what people seem to want is the ability to comment on other people's posts without using the thread or PM or VM.

But, if we're going to have such commenting ability, please implement it like the PM/VM system in that a member has the option to truly disable it and not just hide it.

Also, if this is truly about feedback, then let it be just about the feedback itself.

It does not need to have any visible part in the post to anyone other than the member receiving that feedback. As for the other members, simply have a way for them to quickly comment on a post (if the member has it enabled) without them seeing any bars or colors or whatever.

Essentially, if there's going to be a replacement system, I would like such a system to be just like a PM system (complete with the option to disable it) that can be easily done right in the thread itself for short messages without all the other bells and whistles (boxes/bars/power/title/whatever).

Oh, one last thing, also please allow us to address any feedback received from this system either in the thread where the post is located if it is still on topic to the thread or in a new thread as long as it does not break other forum rules.

Basically, with the previous system, you had a rule against making a thread complaining about negative reps, but I think your implementation of that rule may be that no one is allowed to address the comment in that rep (positive/negative), which I think should not be the case.
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Old 2012-12-23, 19:30   Link #385
Forsaken_Infinity
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I did like the fact that reps allowed people to make remarks anonymously despite all the "lol you fag" and "wat now? Yuki is better than Tenshi you say? I am gonna neg rep you every chance I get." and such. I would have maybe liked it better if I was able to reply to the feedback, anonymously or not. It was certainly the case that people often abused it as a way to try to bully others and have the last laugh or whatever. Entirely pointless, and anybody who has been online for a while better have a strong enough psyche to not let such stuff bother them. But it was also the case that some really interesting and fresh remark popped up once in a while and I would really love to have the conversation going but I couldn't.

I more or less subscribe to the idea that posters should bring whatever they have to say to the forums besides the sentimentalities. It did feel nice or whatever to get a positive rep and sometimes the anonymous comments sounded like they were from people who for whatever reason wouldn't post in the open but for the most part, the rep system isn't really necessary and leads to ego conflicts and what not. It's much better to read the posts without preconceived notions of how good the poster is than to try and rely on something like whether or not they have a red square or a black square under their avatar to judge them. Even the dumbest people have good things to offer and I would much rather have people judge the content on it's own merit than through a convoluted lens.

I didn't really care if it stayed or not but I am happy to see it go. Good posters will be likened regardless and bad posters won't get to flash their ego. Reputation is better left to an assessment of the deed done and an unspoken communal feeling than a popularity contest.
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Old 2012-12-23, 20:26   Link #386
Marcus H.
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I don't think a major change will be felt when the Rep System is taken out completely.
But I think that's a good thing, since it just shows how the community in general no longer cares about rep when posting in the forums.

But I have to admit that having 10+ points taken out in a single neg rep does sting.
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Old 2012-12-23, 21:54   Link #387
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I've heard horror stories of newbies being dropped from green to red by a single highly-ranked member who happened to disagree with their statements, and with the reputation rules being "no complaining about negative rep", it's a pretty quick way to scare off any members with potentially good contributions. I believe this will give everyone, especially more newcomers, the opportunity to contribute positively without being belittled. As for trolls, we got ways of shutting them down without the need for rep
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Old 2012-12-23, 22:34   Link #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForwardUntoDawn View Post
As for trolls, we got ways of shutting them down without the need for rep
If they are reported, that is... Not all trolls are detected unless you look for them thread by thread. Troll post are being post even as we speak. I admit rep has it flaws but it's removal gave way for a lot of them to be less doubtful in posting trolls...
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Old 2012-12-24, 03:06   Link #389
NoirX
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I also noticed that there are quite a number of alt-accounts in the forums thats giving their main-account a boost in rep. So I think turning off the rep system is actually a good thing because it makes those alt-accounts useless now.
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Old 2012-12-24, 03:28   Link #390
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
I also noticed that there are quite a number of alt-accounts in the forums thats giving their main-account a boost in rep. So I think turning off the rep system is actually a good thing because it makes those alt-accounts useless now.
Alt-accounts are against the forum rules. You should report them if you think they're such.
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Old 2012-12-24, 04:28   Link #391
NoirX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Alt-accounts are against the forum rules. You should report them if you think they're such.
If you look at the member list, there are some that fits the description of alt-accounts which is 0 post, 0 friends, and inactive account. Or is that still couldn't be called as an alt-account yet?
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Old 2012-12-24, 08:19   Link #392
Irenicus
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Depends. Many are probably someone signing up and never bothering to post.

In any case, the rep system was designed so that an account like that had zero rep power. You couldn't boost yourself that way. You could probably post with that account a few times, rep the post with your main account which has some rep power, then "return" it, or something, if you have enough alts to circumvent the repeat limit and don't get caught (which would be very obvious). But why would you spend precious time on this fair planet doing that of all things?
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Old 2012-12-24, 09:03   Link #393
NoirX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Depends. Many are probably someone signing up and never bothering to post.

In any case, the rep system was designed so that an account like that had zero rep power. You couldn't boost yourself that way. You could probably post with that account a few times, rep the post with your main account which has some rep power, then "return" it, or something, if you have enough alts to circumvent the repeat limit and don't get caught (which would be very obvious). But why would you spend precious time on this fair planet doing that of all things?
One alt is actually enough to do that. Just make an alt-account, rep your main acc, rep other random people's post, and tada you can re-rep your main acc post. The rep limit for an acc to give a rep to one acc's post is quite few(someone told me) and the alt-acc doesn't actually need to post anything to give a rep to someone. Just spam rep to random people and you can re-rep your main account's post. Thus it can be abused like that repeatedly in a short amount of time.
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Old 2012-12-24, 12:32   Link #394
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
One alt is actually enough to do that. Just make an alt-account, rep your main acc, rep other random people's post, and tada you can re-rep your main acc post. The rep limit for an acc to give a rep to one acc's post is quite few(someone told me) and the alt-acc doesn't actually need to post anything to give a rep to someone. Just spam rep to random people and you can re-rep your main account's post. Thus it can be abused like that repeatedly in a short amount of time.
Actually, that would not have worked. There were a few minimum requirements that had to be met before you could issue any rep; new accounts started with a rep power of zero, so no matter how much rep they received or tried to give, it would never have worked. You'd have to go through a more concerted effort to build up this sort of alternate account, and it would take a considerable amount of work before it ever worked out to anything of consequence (compared to the rep power of the top rep users). Anyone who went through that much concerted effort to boost their rep one point at a time is likely to have been caught (and we did catch some people trying to do this kind of thing).
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Old 2012-12-24, 13:08   Link #395
ForwardUntoDawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFluff View Post
I don't want people to shut up, quite the opposite. I want people to post meaningful things.
That holds true for you as well
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Old 2012-12-24, 13:33   Link #396
milan kyuubi
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Do you plan to remove this as well? Since it has no use now, since the rep system has been disabled, and probably wont return. Will be sad to see it go. Since a lot of work was put in making it... Tho I hope the thread will remain...

Btv posts without rep look very weird. I demand to have rep system back on! And you must listen to me since it's Christmas.
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Old 2012-12-24, 14:53   Link #397
npal
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It was doing more harm than good anyway. I'm not sure what the new designer currency will be though. If I recall correctly, sig and avatar designers were usually rewarded with rep
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Old 2012-12-24, 15:32   Link #398
DonQuigleone
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I quite liked the rep system myself. It gave me a sense of positive reinforcement when I wrote a very good post.

There are a few solutions I can think of, that maintain the good points of the rep system while getting rid of the bad:

1. Get rid of Neg Reps. It was neg reps that caused the most abuse, and if you think about it, the function of neg reps can already be fulfilled by the "report post" button.

However, you still have the "clique" problem of users giving each other reputation. Which brings me to an alternative idea:

2. Allowing other users to "like" other users posts (as in Facebook). The Likes could be anonymous or not(both have benefits). Also, only the users themselves would see how their posts are "liked", others would not see that. So it couldn't be used for "prestige".

Perhaps in the User CP, users can see a list of their most liked posts, and most recently liked posts. And perhaps some statistics about the number of likes they've received.

In this way users could receive positive reinforcement for the posts they make. In this way users will be lead towards more positive behaviors (due to the reward of the likes), and avoid more negative behaviors (which will likely not be liked at all, or worse get them reported).

The only weakness of this system is that it mightn't be visible enough, and users may not use the system.
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Old 2012-12-24, 16:00   Link #399
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Actually, that would not have worked. There were a few minimum requirements that had to be met before you could issue any rep; new accounts started with a rep power of zero, so no matter how much rep they received or tried to give, it would never have worked. You'd have to go through a more concerted effort to build up this sort of alternate account, and it would take a considerable amount of work before it ever worked out to anything of consequence (compared to the rep power of the top rep users). Anyone who went through that much concerted effort to boost their rep one point at a time is likely to have been caught (and we did catch some people trying to do this kind of thing).
At that point, I feel it'd be less tedious to just use client-side javascript so they can give themselves a bajillion rep points... The only problem would have been that others wouldn't share the illusion.
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Old 2012-12-24, 16:57   Link #400
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It's the end of the world.....
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