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Old 2012-12-25, 10:19   Link #421
DonQuigleone
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Reps did motivate me to write good posts, and there was nothing quite like the hit you got from seeing that green icon in your User CP...

It would be interesting to see how posting activity changes in the next few weeks/months (if at all).
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Old 2012-12-25, 11:00   Link #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
And what might "Post counts" give in effect to others than to brag that one is so active in the forum?
Active doesn't necessarily make you a quality user though. If what I want to say can be said in one sentence, I'll say it in one sentence.
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Old 2012-12-25, 11:08   Link #423
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Come on people, we have been over this already don't dredge it up again.
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Old 2012-12-25, 12:24   Link #424
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While I admit that the positive feeling one would get by getting a green box with a nice suportive message for an interesting post was good the feeling of getting a random negrep with some random (usually offensive) message put a chill to that. I'll even go as far as saying that some people might have felt less comfortable expressing dissenting views simply to avoid getting a random anonymous negrep.

So I for one welcome our new rep free animesuki overlords even if I'll miss the ease with which they allowed me to give someone a quick thumbs up for a good post. Maybe replace the old rep button with a way to post a quick VM with link back to the post (if that's even possible).

I'll add, however, that I'm not afraid in the least of any public trolling due to the removal of an outlet for that kind of stuff. Animesuki has one of the nicest communities I've seen online and the mods have been very good at keeping everything in check so far so I'm confident that everything will stay as is. I don't even know if the majority of the users knew about the rep ability.
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Old 2012-12-25, 13:18   Link #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito Kinomoto View Post
Active doesn't necessarily make you a quality user though. If what I want to say can be said in one sentence, I'll say it in one sentence.
Which is why that people with low post counts could also be a quality one aswell. That's why post counts under your avatar shouldn't be necessary, no?
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Old 2012-12-25, 13:32   Link #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
While I admit that the positive feeling one would get by getting a green box with a nice suportive message for an interesting post was good the feeling of getting a random negrep with some random (usually offensive) message put a chill to that. I'll even go as far as saying that some people might have felt less comfortable expressing dissenting views simply to avoid getting a random anonymous negrep.

So I for one welcome our new rep free animesuki overlords even if I'll miss the ease with which they allowed me to give someone a quick thumbs up for a good post. Maybe replace the old rep button with a way to post a quick VM with link back to the post (if that's even possible).

I'll add, however, that I'm not afraid in the least of any public trolling due to the removal of an outlet for that kind of stuff. Animesuki has one of the nicest communities I've seen online...
I generally agree. Of all the internet forums and message boards that I've been on, Anime Suki has definitely been the most civil, and by a significant margin.

And what was the biggest noticeable difference between Anime Suki and all those other forums? The reputation system.

It's not at all hard for me to see how a reputation system can encourage a civil internet forum.


This, as much as anything, is why I'm not convinced that losing the reputation system is a positive change for Anime Suki.

I can see this change having one or more of many possible effects. There's also a decent chance it won't change much at all.

However, it probably is a worthwhile experiment to see what this will do.
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Old 2012-12-25, 14:45   Link #427
Akuma Kousaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
Which is why that people with low post counts could also be a quality one aswell. That's why post counts under your avatar shouldn't be necessary, no?
Exactly. The post count is already displayed in the user profile if you want it to be for ego stroking purposes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I can see this change having one or more of many possible effects. There's also a decent chance it won't change much at all.

However, it probably is a worthwhile experiment to see what this will do.
I suspect more noticeable behavior from snarks and haters. Won't be giving any names.
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Old 2012-12-25, 15:42   Link #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I generally agree. Of all the internet forums and message boards that I've been on, Anime Suki has definitely been the most civil, and by a significant margin.

And what was the biggest noticeable difference between Anime Suki and all those other forums? The reputation system.

It's not at all hard for me to see how a reputation system can encourage a civil internet forum.


This, as much as anything, is why I'm not convinced that losing the reputation system is a positive change for Anime Suki.

I can see this change having one or more of many possible effects. There's also a decent chance it won't change much at all.

However, it probably is a worthwhile experiment to see what this will do.
I personally don't think it was the reputation system that was responsible for the good atmosphere on these forums. I would like to believe that the presence of plenty of older members and a good job done by the moderators are the major reasons for it.

If, however, the trolls do pop out of their caves due to the absence of a reputation system then I'm sure it'll help out in identifying them and proceed to "invite them to leave".
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Old 2012-12-25, 15:49   Link #429
DonQuigleone
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I'm inclined to favor keeping things as they are (if it ain't broke...), that said I think most of the abuse that occurred involved the neg reps.

Perhaps there should be a poll with a number of options:

1. Remove reputation entirely.
2. Only remove Negative reputation.
3. Restore the old system without any changes.
4. A hypothetical "new" system.

That would indicate what most forumites would support. I do think the positive reps contributed to a "friendly" atmosphere, as it allowed users to anonymously complement other users on doing a good posts. I feel like that reinforced positive behaviour.

Neg reps, on the other hand, were usually just an avenue for passive aggressive behavior.
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Old 2012-12-25, 17:20   Link #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I'm inclined to favor keeping things as they are (if it ain't broke...), that said I think most of the abuse that occurred involved the neg reps.

Perhaps there should be a poll with a number of options:

1. Remove reputation entirely.
2. Only remove Negative reputation.
3. Restore the old system without any changes.
4. A hypothetical "new" system.

That would indicate what most forumites would support. I do think the positive reps contributed to a "friendly" atmosphere, as it allowed users to anonymously complement other users on doing a good posts. I feel like that reinforced positive behaviour.

Neg reps, on the other hand, were usually just an avenue for passive aggressive behavior.
I think option number 2 would be out of question though. The abuse of the rep system isn't only limited to negative rep, it also applies to the positive rep. While it's quite sad that the rep has been erased, option 3 would also be meaningless as to why would you remove it in the first place if it'll just come back and the same abuse happenning all over again. So that leaves us with option 1 and 4 I guess and I will most likely choose 4.
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Last edited by NoirX; 2012-12-25 at 17:37.
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Old 2012-12-25, 17:46   Link #431
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoirX View Post
I think option number 2 would be out of question though. The abuse of the rep system isn't only limited to negative rep, it also applies to the positive rep. While it's quite sad that the rep has been erased, option 3 would also be meaningless as to why would you remove it in the first place if it'll just come back and the same abuse happenning all over again. So that leaves us with option 1 and 4 I guess and I will most likely choose 4.
I'm not convinced that the abuses associated with positive rep were so egregious. No hurt was ever really caused by people positive repping one another. Any negatives due to "cliques" (though I think cliques would form regardless of reputation), were outweighed by the positives.

As for option 3, I don't personally agree with it, but some users might want it. They should be able to express that opinion.

They should probably implement the new system, allow users to see what it's like then have a poll after a few months to collect opinion about the future course on this issue.
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Old 2012-12-25, 18:35   Link #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I'm not convinced that the abuses associated with positive rep were so egregious. No hurt was ever really caused by people positive repping one another. Any negatives due to "cliques" (though I think cliques would form regardless of reputation), were outweighed by the positives.

As for option 3, I don't personally agree with it, but some users might want it. They should be able to express that opinion.

They should probably implement the new system, allow users to see what it's like then have a poll after a few months to collect opinion about the future course on this issue.
Actually, spamming positive rep with one alt-account is possible. A newly created acc can give around 15 rep points(tested it myself just for this occassion sometime ago). So basically just give your main acc a positive rep of 15 points, give good/bad rep to other random people and the you can re-rep your main acc with 15 points and repeat the cycle. Thats how some people abuse their high rep(not saying who of course).
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Old 2012-12-25, 20:02   Link #433
Guardian Enzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I generally agree. Of all the internet forums and message boards that I've been on, Anime Suki has definitely been the most civil, and by a significant margin.

And what was the biggest noticeable difference between Anime Suki and all those other forums? The reputation system.

It's not at all hard for me to see how a reputation system can encourage a civil internet forum.


This, as much as anything, is why I'm not convinced that losing the reputation system is a positive change for Anime Suki.

I can see this change having one or more of many possible effects. There's also a decent chance it won't change much at all.

However, it probably is a worthwhile experiment to see what this will do.
This, pretty much. Let me give you some rep for such a good post. Oh, wait...

I think in the end, the rep system made Animesuki more civil, not less. It was incentive to make good posts, and deterrent to troll. I hate to see the fact that there are a few bad apples in the barrel ruin it for everybody, but that's how these things always seem to work.

I think the salient point is, this is really the only anime forum I frequent, because it's considerably more civil than the others. And it was the only one with a rep system.
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Old 2012-12-25, 20:23   Link #434
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
I'm inclined to favor keeping things as they are (if it ain't broke...), that said I think most of the abuse that occurred involved the neg reps.

Perhaps there should be a poll with a number of options:

1. Remove reputation entirely.
2. Only remove Negative reputation.
3. Restore the old system without any changes.
4. A hypothetical "new" system.

That would indicate what most forumites would support. I do think the positive reps contributed to a "friendly" atmosphere, as it allowed users to anonymously complement other users on doing a good posts. I feel like that reinforced positive behaviour.

Neg reps, on the other hand, were usually just an avenue for passive aggressive behavior.
A poll will likely be to know peoples' general view in a democratic way...
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Old 2012-12-25, 21:44   Link #435
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I still have remnants of penalties/infractions that I was heaped with several years ago.
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Old 2012-12-25, 23:17   Link #436
Qilin
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I'm glad.

Regardless of its original purpose, it had somehow evolved into a bit of a griefing vector over the years. It's going to be sad without looking forward to anymore encouraging blurbs, but if it means the end of anonymous name-calling and insults, I'm all for it.
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Old 2012-12-26, 08:23   Link #437
Dhomochevsky
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So reputation was frozen, huh?
After some 'controversial' political posts, I was wondering why no bad rep was rolling in, as it usually was inevitably the case.
I guess this answers that.
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Old 2012-12-26, 08:32   Link #438
totoum
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I honestly would be quite disappointed if the rep system was a major factor in keeping the forum civil since I would hope people would naturally be civil to each other, the rules say "Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated." I almost never used neg rep because nearly everytime I felt like neg reping a post it was a post that broke the rules so I just reported it to the mods instead.

And if a troll was scared off by a rep system and that kept him from trolling then I'd say he's a failure as a troll.
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Old 2012-12-26, 09:09   Link #439
Cosmic Eagle
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No...the rep system doesn't keep this place civil, since few here actually outright troll without being reported. It just acts as censorship by keeping people from airing their views. I mean, when merely pointing out how a certain ex-doujinsoft VN company is now purely commercialized earns you god knows how much spam you know something's horribly wrong.

All it does is bury the waste where no one can actually see. Civil? The rep system made this place one of the ugliest on the inside.

If the system were still around, I'm sure I'd get insulted the next day on my user CP for the above post.
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Old 2012-12-26, 09:33   Link #440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
I personally don't think it was the reputation system that was responsible for the good atmosphere on these forums.
I don't think that the reputation system was the sole reason for the good atmosphere on these forums, but I definitely think it was a factor.

Just compare Anime Suki to ANN's forums or MAL's forums. I've seen more flaming on those sites than I've seen here, and that's in spite of the fact that I've spent much more time here on AS than on ANN's forums or MAL's forums. And it's not like ANN's forums are bereft of "plenty of older members" and some good moderators (I can't speak to MAL as much). And ANN's forums and MAL's are populated by international anime fans, just like AS is.

AS' moderating staff probably is superior to ANN's, but I don't think that alone can account for the difference here.


There are times during a heated discussion that people are tempted to cross the line a bit. I've been there myself. There's at least a couple times that I probably did cross the line. And whenever I did, I'd receive a negrep for it. A lot of the negreps I've received were cowardly, silly, and petty in my view, but at least a couple were fair admonishments for having crossed the line. Negreps could help ensure that people really tried to avoid getting too heated in a heated discussion.


Quote:
If, however, the trolls do pop out of their caves due to the absence of a reputation system then I'm sure it'll help out in identifying them and proceed to "invite them to leave".
It's really not that simple, imo. The substantial civility of Anime Suki isn't just a reflection of a general lack of trolls. It's also, I think, that Anime Suki's full membership does a generally good job of practicing self-restraint when posting in heated discussions that have the potential to turn into flamewars, and that this emphasis on self-restraint was reinforced by the reputation system.

Anime Suki has actually had pretty civil and interesting discussions on "hot button" topics like fanservice, and "sexism in anime". I've seen such discussions turn into nasty shouting matches on other anime sites, but here people handled them with maturity and civility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I honestly would be quite disappointed if the rep system was a major factor in keeping the forum civil since I would hope people would naturally be civil to each other, the rules say "Insults, harassment, flaming, trolling, baiting or other similar abusive behaviour towards other members of The Forum will not be tolerated."
I think you're overestimating the degree to which people read the rules, and take them seriously, before posting on an internet forum. I recall the major headaches of this past Summer, immediately after the Sword Art Online subforum launched. These headaches were related to Anime Suki's spoiler policy, and how it was just being totally ignored on the SAO subforum, and various other places on AS. It was a nightmare, which I'm sure relentlessflame himself remembers well. And it sadly proves that lots of people just don't bother reading the rules, or even if they do, they don't always take them seriously.

Something dynamic, active, and ever-present, like AS' reputation system, has a much greater impact on poster behavior than a long list of rules stickied somewhere, imo.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
This, pretty much. Let me give you some rep for such a good post. Oh, wait...

I think in the end, the rep system made Animesuki more civil, not less. It was incentive to make good posts, and deterrent to troll. I hate to see the fact that there are a few bad apples in the barrel ruin it for everybody, but that's how these things always seem to work.

I think the salient point is, this is really the only anime forum I frequent, because it's considerably more civil than the others. And it was the only one with a rep system.
I completely agree. And for people wondering why I care so much about the possible effects of retiring the reputation system, this is the reason why.

After spending some time on various other anime message boards, I can't imagine ever leaving Anime Suki for one of them. And poster civility is a major reason why.

And so if Anime Suki ever loses that edge, then I don't really see a good alternative to turn to. For that reason, I really hope that Anime Suki remains at least as good an internet forum as its almost always been.
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