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Old 2013-06-04, 00:13   Link #81
germanturkey
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its very, very, very hard to follow up on Byousoku, (i don't really rate kodomo). but Kotonoha comes pretty damn close to reaching that level. in a very typical Shinkai fashion, it's very "real world" and the story elements are wonderfully natural. i don't even need to talk about the animation. leaps and bounds the most beautiful film ever animated. like how Place Promised was makoto shinkai does clouds and Byousoku was shinkai doing snow and cherry blossoms, Kotonoha is makoto shinkai does rain. and my god, is it beautiful. the soundtrack is decent. it doesn't high the heights set by his first three movies. i miss Tenmon. the climax of the film was wonderful. absolutely wonderful. the lines he shouted were perfectly written for the scenario presented.

amazing. i need to let it digest for a while, then i'll rewatch.
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Old 2013-06-04, 00:32   Link #82
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Firstly, comment on the visuals. It was gorgeous as expected of Shinkai who is pretty much unmatched in the anime industry when it comes to background art. It also portrays how you should use CG folks... none of the cheap, awkward looking shit that happens in Attack on Titan or Sword Art Online or any other name high budgeted TV series.

However, when it comes to content, I can't help but feel somewhat lacklustre. Perhaps expectations were too high or the bar to match Promised in Our Early Days/5 Centimeters Per Second was way too high. It was well crafted film for sure and from an animation/technical point of view it was a near masterpiece, but it left me quite dry emotionally. It wasn't the lack of melodrama or anything (in fact the ending was probably the most melodramatic scene I've seen in any Shinkai film... and albeitly felt weak) but there was a severe lack of feeling anything for the characters. Shit happens in an artsy format and thats about it.

I give it a 7/10 which is about the score I gave it for Children who Chase Lost Voices compared to Promised in Our Early Days/5 Centimeters Per Second which were 9 and 10 respectively.

What's happening bro Mr Makoto Shinkai?
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Old 2013-06-04, 04:51   Link #83
Suzuku
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For a second I though this was soft core foot fetish porn.

But, it was good, especially the art. However, like a lot of these movies, the ending was anticlimactic. I'd give it a solid 7.
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Old 2013-06-04, 07:32   Link #84
-Sho-
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It was so refreshing to see such a relationship.
And i love rains in the wilds and dislike it in the cities.

PS : Fuck the scum girl
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Old 2013-06-04, 09:07   Link #85
SQA
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Shinkai would like to remind the entire animation industry: you're just playing in Shinkai Makoto's world.

Damn was that pretty.

On the story, for what he was going for (we know it was a discussion on "koi", the old version of "love" in Japanese), it works very well. Their covering from the rain was a respite from their world and a place to recover. And their relationship developed from there.

It was straight forward, honest and didn't stretch itself past its setup. It's probably not his "best" work, but it's probably his "tightest" writing so far. It was a great watch. And a hopeful/solid place to end it.

Oh, and that pair of shoes needed to be left there. It fits with the symbolism of what that place represents. It's a beautiful way to wrap up the movie. (And his color design needs work, which, as Takao would point out, he's still pretty bad.)
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Old 2013-06-04, 09:38   Link #86
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Originally Posted by SQA View Post
Shinkai would like to remind the entire animation industry: you're just playing in Shinkai Makoto's world.
Excuse me, but what the hell are you trying to imply with this?
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Old 2013-06-04, 18:00   Link #87
germanturkey
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Originally Posted by Vito View Post
Excuse me, but what the hell are you trying to imply with this?
no one else can compete with him in terms of animation and visual quality. his style is so often emulated and imitated now, but this goes to show that the original is still the best.

anywho, i remember how when everyone watched Byousoku, they were all like, "oh my god, this ending sucks." but then people rewatched, and realized the beauty of the ending, and how it jumped the movie from "very good" to "masterpiece." i feel the same thing will happen to this, but i doubt it'll reach the heights of byousoku. it'll take a while, but eventually people will go, "wow. i finally get it."
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Old 2013-06-05, 02:36   Link #88
Vito
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I am just going to assume you sit in a dark room and keep replaying Shinkai's films, because I see no other way you could have reached that conclusion.

I haven't seen much if any commercial anime that would try and imitate his works' look. Kinda sad that simply because his backgrounds are more colorful and tend to be more detailed (or at least look due to contrast) means his work is automatically superior. But hey, if you're content giving an impression of being ignorant that's fine with me. As for animation, I've seen more impressive works and I'm hardly an expect on the subject of "sakuga".

I'm not saying his work is bad and enjoyed the movie despite its flaws, but I have no intention of putting the guy on a pedestal without any criticism.
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Old 2013-06-05, 04:25   Link #89
Takane_no_Hana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanturkey View Post
no one else can compete with him in terms of animation and visual quality. his style is so often emulated and imitated now, but this goes to show that the original is still the best.

anywho, i remember how when everyone watched Byousoku, they were all like, "oh my god, this ending sucks." but then people rewatched, and realized the beauty of the ending, and how it jumped the movie from "very good" to "masterpiece." i feel the same thing will happen to this, but i doubt it'll reach the heights of byousoku. it'll take a while, but eventually people will go, "wow. i finally get it."
I completely agree with you on this. It will take people a while to actually capture all the beauty of this work(just like 5cm/s). Garden of Words wouldn't be appreciated if viewers merely watch it for 1 time.

Every time you rewatch it, you gonna discover something new about the work, the beauty just stays hidden and still waiting to be found out.

I like the rain which was portrayed in Garden of Words, the rain was softer and more silent when the two first met. But then after dried days, it finally came back and turned into something that was so intense when the two met again after a long time. ( I think the rain was some sort of demonstrating their feelings, they had been keeping it inside and wanted to burst out like the rain itself). Not sure If I expressed this correctly but Eng isn't my native language.
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Old 2013-06-05, 10:32   Link #90
Guardian Enzo
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This is a return to form for Shinkai story-wise. It didn't grip me the way 5 CM did, but it's right in his wheelhouse - spare, simple, reflective. This is the kind of story Shinkai seems best suited to tell.

As for the visuals, well... I hardly think anything needs to be added. I'm in absolute awe not just of Shinkai's sheer artistic talent but of his vision, the ability to find the exceptional in the ordinary. This may be the most beautiful animated film of all time.
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Old 2013-06-05, 11:03   Link #91
Folenfant
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I don't profess to be a huge fan or know much about Makoto Shinkai but I can tell he's very highly revered around these parts. What actually got me to check out this film was it's brevity and curiosity about it's subject matter of the rainy season which we happen to be in right now. I once heard Shinkai described as a creator who dabbles not in plots or developments, but in conveying an idea or an experience and unless you happen to agree with or have had that experience then his movies lose their impact. So far I have to agree with this assessment. Granted the only other film I've ever seen by him was The Place Promised in Our Early Days and that just didn't do much for me as an art piece. I found it gorgeous to look at, but found it's characters spent to much time in monologue in a self-pitying way and just couldn't get invested in anything as the movie dragged along.

This one was a little different. I think it's brevity is an absolute strength as it's used to convey the fleeting nature of the rainy season which only really lasts a few months. I also happen to have a fondness for slow rainy mornings where the only thing to do is stay in one place, watch nature take it's course and maybe have a chat with someone at a bus stop or in a some form of shelter. Some of my most interesting conversations with strangers have happened that way and this film does a fairly good job of depicting those kinds of days and is gorgeous to look at so I appreciated it more than The Place Promised in Our Early Days. The story of a younger student and young adult inspiring each other at turning points in their lives is a simple yet effective one even if it's only able to be fleshed out so much in the time they have during the rainy season, but again that sort of brevity balances out pretty well between fleshing out the casts desires and being realistic in that they only have so much time to make a decision. Again that's something I can appreciate even if there isn't too much to get invested in.

The ending climax at Yukino's apartment followed by our heroes talking about his failures at school I have sort of mixed feelings about as it's a lot of drama for not a whole lot of development towards it, but again I suppose I can sort of appreciate their struggle even if I preferred the meeting and parting during the rainy days portion of the movie more. I think this one clocks in at about an 8/10 overall for me. 10/10 for the visual effects and storytelling, 6/10 for the spoken script itself. Still not a huge fan of what seems to be a habit in overly sentimental self-pitying monologues for the principle cast members in his movies and felt the visuals did a better job of conveying the emotions and feelings of the characters than their own interactions most of the tome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito View Post
I am just going to assume you sit in a dark room and keep replaying Shinkai's films, because I see no other way you could have reached that conclusion.

I haven't seen much if any commercial anime that would try and imitate his works' look. Kinda sad that simply because his backgrounds are more colorful and tend to be more detailed (or at least look due to contrast) means his work is automatically superior. But hey, if you're content giving an impression of being ignorant that's fine with me. As for animation, I've seen more impressive works and I'm hardly an expect on the subject of "sakuga".

I'm not saying his work is bad and enjoyed the movie despite its flaws, but I have no intention of putting the guy on a pedestal without any criticism.
Yeah I'm very much not a fan of this sort of thing at all and prefer appreciation through measured commentary and analysis as opposed to deifying or vilifying creators. I just find it a more respectful way of receiving somebody's efforts in creating media and that it better serves those who are going to be reading your reaction and looking for ideas and perspective in it. I didn't find the movie had that many glaring flaws, but I can see where it's strengths lie and where there are trade offs since it's a very visual and quite brief (on purpose) experience.
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Old 2013-06-05, 11:08   Link #92
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vito View Post
I am just going to assume you sit in a dark room and keep replaying Shinkai's films, because I see no other way you could have reached that conclusion.

I haven't seen much if any commercial anime that would try and imitate his works' look. Kinda sad that simply because his backgrounds are more colorful and tend to be more detailed (or at least look due to contrast) means his work is automatically superior. But hey, if you're content giving an impression of being ignorant that's fine with me. As for animation, I've seen more impressive works and I'm hardly an expect on the subject of "sakuga".

I'm not saying his work is bad and enjoyed the movie despite its flaws, but I have no intention of putting the guy on a pedestal without any criticism.
The visual quality of his works is unmatched. You don't need to be an expert to see it, a pair of eyes is enough to tell this movie looks prettier than 99% of the stuff out there. If you know of other works that have background art this gorgeous then please tell us ignorant people because I'm sure we'd all love to watch them. The animation is not "sakuga quality" (animation has never been Shinkai's forte) but it doesn't need to be in the first place. It's more than good enough for that kind of story. The lovely aesthetics do the rest.
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Old 2013-06-05, 11:26   Link #93
Folenfant
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
The visual quality of his works is unmatched. You don't need to be an expert to see it, a pair of eyes is enough to tell this movie looks prettier than 99% of the stuff out there. If you know of other works that have background art this gorgeous then please tell us ignorant people because I'm sure we'd all love to watch them. The animation is not "sakuga quality" (animation has never been Shinkai's forte) but it doesn't need to be in the first place. It's more than good enough for that kind of story. The lovely aesthetics do the rest.
For background art afficionados Patlabor 2 the movie is pretty bloody good and clocks in at a little under 2 hours. You might want to check out Robot Carnival and the upcoming releases Short Peace and Nerawareta Gakuen as both look pretty promising. Here's some links:

Patlabor 2 Intro
Patlabor 2 Martial Law Scene
Patlabor 2 Gotoh's Reflections
Patlabor 2 Wyvern Scene
Patlabor 2 Boat Scene (Ends at 1:08:00)

Unfortunately the youtube clips just can't do it the justice it deserves like the Blu-Ray version.

Nerawareta Gakuen -The Psychic School- Trailer(aka full bloom mode) [This was just released on Blu-Ray in Japan today]

Short Peace Offical Trailer [Just debuted in select Japanese theaters yesterday]

Some bonus Clips of favorite sakuga/art scenes throughout the years

Ghost In The Shell Boat Scene [Mamoru Ooshi loved his boats travelling down small waterways almost as much as he loved that dog and again the youtube clip can't do the BD justice]

The entirety of the Robot Carnival Omnibus Film [If you don't have a lot of time I recommend Presence]

This isn't to say that I think people should prefer these clips to Shinkai or anything, just that I think there's room for further appreciation here. Simply saying Shinkai is the absolute best and nobody else can compete or has interesting visual ideas I think is an injustice to the art form of animation, I think that there are multiple visual styles, depictions and motifs with their own subtle beauties that cannot be imitated or conveyed by just anyone and ought to be appreciated in their own way.

Last edited by Folenfant; 2013-06-05 at 12:01.
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Old 2013-06-05, 16:41   Link #94
Kanon
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Thanks for directing me to those. I'll keep an eye out for Nerawareta Gakuen and Short Peace. Already seen the rest.

Don't worry, while I do strongly prefer Shinkai's artistic direction and think he's the best when it comes to background art, I can still appreciate other art styles. I'm absolutely not saying Shinkai is the best and everything else is crap. I'm just pointing out that he's revered by a lot of anime fans for a reason. His works do look gorgeous. Vito seemed to imply his reputation was undeserved.
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Old 2013-06-05, 19:21   Link #95
Takane_no_Hana
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Makoto might not be the best in term of visual quality but his works are the best in term of it that I've ever seen. Or it's just me who really likes his art styles.
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Old 2013-06-05, 23:36   Link #96
hyperborealis
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I love Makoto Shinkai. But I didn't think this outing measured up to his earlier work. I thought it was sentimental. The characters had none of the tragic depth that haunts 5cm/s. Instead of being universal, they were merely idiosyncratic. The animation was beyond beautiful. The story and the characters, not so much.
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Old 2013-06-07, 23:07   Link #97
Kaoru Chujo
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Shinkai's work is not so much pretty as deep. The beauty conveys the aching reality of the world. I consider his best work (i.e., everything I've seen except Hoshi o Ou Kodomo) to be religious art, not entertainment.

The religion he's working from is Buddhism, and he communicates to me similar things to what the best haiku do: a sense of immediate reality, and a hint of the possibility of satori (Zen enlightenment). His work is also Buddhist in that what it tells about is the deep unsatisfactoriness of the world. Nothing ever works out as his characters hope.

It's true that his animation is not that special. Up to 5cm/sec, he really avoided giving much definition to his characters' facial features. In terms of art, it is his backgrounds that are so remarkable. As in traditional Chinese and Japanese landscape paintings, the characters are dominated by the world they move in. As are we, if we only realized it.
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Old 2013-06-08, 13:02   Link #98
Kakkou
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For those interested, I've written a transcript of the world premiere Q&A session that was held on the 28th of April, as well as a little bit about the event itself.
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Old 2013-06-09, 21:54   Link #99
Dagger
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During the climactic scene, I did find part of myself thinking, "Hm, this is more overtly dramatic than I had expected"... but it actually made me tear up, so I'm not going to get too critical.

Much as I adore Tenmon, I really dug the piano tracks in this one. There was something... unbalanced and unexpected about them, in an almost jazzy sense, which made me sit up and pay attention. You can see that musical terminology is not my specialty, but yeah. Maybe someone knows what I'm getting at, haha.

I also liked the seemingly unconnected shots of scenery around the city that kept cropping up throughout. That actually felt very much like the type of directorial choice you'd be more likely to encounter in a moody live-action film.

My usual caveat to all of the above: I'm one of, like, five people in the world who wholeheartedly loved Hoshi wo Ou Kodomo, so, um, take that as you will?
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Old 2013-06-11, 09:43   Link #100
Miraluka
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Well, at least we got a somewhat happy ending for once. Still left my heart tight but at least it wasn't soul crushing like 5cm per second
Can anyone confirm me this. 5cps left angry and crying all the way to home .
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