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Old 2013-01-13, 13:29   Link #341
Ulquiorra
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Who had more development during the war? Fellow third tier players Hinata or Choji? Choji had a growth fight and Hinata did not. I know it's tricky since Hinata has millions of fans and Choji has almost none, so that can influence things, but it feels like Hinata got the better development without having to fight.

I think it has to be the right type of fight. Choji's growth fight was terrible. It wasn't about overcoming any odds. They had Asuma beat within seconds. Choji then cracked and sobbed like a wuss for three chapters, nearly getting Shika and Ino killed, before Kishi gave him a ridiculous looking powerup; and then rushed through the ending. Compared to Choji's very effective butterfly mode powerup moment against Juubo, which connected with readers because of his friendship with Shikamaru, it was silly and asinine. Fat guy cries, fat guy nearly gets everyone killed by being incompetent, fat guy gets told to man up, fat guy grows huge butterfly wings. Yuck. Another crappy brick in Shippuden's porous wall. Even though it was a fight, I don't think it compares to Hinata's cheesy heroine moment.

Yes, Shikamaru is the most developed and important of the K11 outside of Naruto and Sakura because he had the most fights. But it was the type of development he received during those fights where it felt more like something you would see with Sasuke and Naruto. The same can be said with Gaara who is also on that level of secondary importance. Just having a character fight isn't enough.
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Old 2013-01-13, 13:55   Link #342
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
Who had more development during the war? Fellow third tier players Hinata or Choji? Choji had a growth fight and Hinata did not. I know it's tricky since Hinata has millions of fans and Choji has almost none, so that can influence things, but it feels like Hinata got the better development without having to fight.

I think it has to be the right type of fight. Choji's growth fight was terrible. It wasn't about overcoming any odds. They had Asuma beat within seconds. Choji then cracked and sobbed like a wuss for three chapters, nearly getting Shika and Ino killed, before Kishi gave him a ridiculous looking powerup; and then rushed through the ending. Compared to Choji's very effective butterfly mode powerup moment against Juubo, which connected with readers because of his friendship with Shikamaru, it was silly and asinine. Fat guy cries, fat guy nearly gets everyone killed by being incompetent, fat guy gets told to man up, fat guy grows huge butterfly wings. Yuck. Another crappy brick in Shippuden's porous wall. Even though it was a fight, I don't think it compares to Hinata's cheesy heroine moment.

Yes, Shikamaru is the most developed and important of the K11 outside of Naruto and Sakura because he had the most fights. But it was the type of development he received during those fights where it felt more like something you would see with Sasuke and Naruto. The same can be said with Gaara who is also on that level of secondary importance. Just having a character fight isn't enough.
I think Hinata developed more then Chouji mentally as she was able to focus even after Neji was killed and she helped Naruto focus with her speech. While Chouji developed more power then he had before as he can use his giant form without pills now.

Shikamaru is currently like the brains of the alliance with his father gone so he may have more importance then before.

Sakura has had the 3nd to 4rd least development so far out of the Konoha 11 in the war as all she got to do is punch a Zetsu but she did get some important info form it.
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Old 2013-01-13, 17:20   Link #343
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No it really doesn't. At the time her fight with Sasori impressed most people even many of those who can't stand the character, her downfall (or to be more precise the return to her pathetic status quo) is due to the fact that it was a one time thing after which she was never given anything but feeble lines and being all around useless to anybody.
Shikamaru however has been given more fighting scenes than any other character save from the the main ones and continuous positive exposition in all his regular appearance. Let's put this simply do you actually believe we would be talking about Shikamaru right now if he hadn't had all his fighting scenes in part 2 and only talked to Naruto for 2 panels in this scene you mention? Of course not. But while fighting scenes are the backbones of the characters, those little scenes (and this one is clearly not the most important of all for Shika) are fleshing them out. Taken individually they don't matter much but as a whole they are very important for his characterization but (and this is the point I'm coming across since the beginning) the author won't bother with them much unless fight scenes, spotlight, etc.
Would I still think Shinkamaru had grown if he only cheered up Naruto? Yes I would. He was a lazy bum in part 1 and now he was basically saying he was taking on the responsibilities of an adult, to be a good role model for his dead sensei. While YOU personally don't put much stock in exposition, it is presumptuous to say that applies to everyone. In fact I think that is exactly why we disagree when comforted with the same information.
As far I can tell, both Shinkamaru and Sakura had the same amount of fights yet one came out with better PR than the other. Can you still say it is all about the fights? Especially when Sakura had more panel time? My conclusion is that Kishi squandered her panel time especially the ones that don't involve a fight.

And you're right, the whole guilt trip thing was just silly and just supports my claim that Kishi is writing her character into the ground.
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Old 2013-01-13, 19:02   Link #344
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And you're right, the whole guilt trip thing was just silly and just supports my claim that Kishi is writing her character into the ground.
If that didn't serve as character development for Sakura then i don't know what could. It was a simple thing used in other stories too, i mean the guilt trip, the fake confession gone bad, the deep feelings that didn't allow her to actually stab and kill Sasuke from behind, etc.
But unfortunately in the end Kishimoto gave some silly words in Sakura's mouth, she says that she will "believe in them", Sakura talks about these two as if they were equal. But disregarding this one silly sentence, i hope she changed for the better and as a result in the Naruto vs Sasuke arc she'll play a much more important role.

My guess is that people complain about Sakura because they think that we are near the end of the manga so she should have more pages, but this is not the end since Sasuke has to be dealt with later, and Sakura's story is connected to Sasuke's fate, this war is only about Naruto. When the Sasuke chapters come people will complain about the lack of Hinata and others probably.

So in my opinion if Sakura did anything else than what she actually did (the guilt trip, etc.) that would be unrealistic, it's funny but her behavior was the most realistic for me, far more realistic than what Sasuke and Naruto did in different situations. What she did may be ugly, but that's how her character was, and we have to hope her complete failure made her realize that she needs to change. I would rather want to read complaints about Sakura where an alternative course of events is given and explained why it would fit Sakura's character better.

Last edited by Ero-Senn1n; 2013-01-13 at 19:16.
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Old 2013-01-13, 20:43   Link #345
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One thing I couldn't figure is why Obito had to wrap the tails around him before shooting the chakra laser. Was it to protect against the mountain jutsu or the recoil? What was Madara so worried about anyway?
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Old 2013-01-13, 20:51   Link #346
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^i think it was to protect himself and the bijuu from the blast of the chakra attack
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Old 2013-01-13, 21:11   Link #347
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^i think it was to protect himself and the bijuu from the blast of the chakra attack
But then Why cover its eye? And it Madara seemed to worry about taking damage from using the laser itself. I don't get it why not just shot it outright?
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Old 2013-01-13, 22:07   Link #348
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^as we have already seen that the area covered by the attack is large and the blast itself is very deadly, madara can respawn again but not obito or the bijuu, and well the eye is an important part of any being, i also think it might serve an important purpose in the moon's eye plan as well, it was just for protection i think, what else could it be?
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Old 2013-01-13, 22:19   Link #349
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Ah it's one of those AoE> range of attack things huh. Good point. So being close to the Juubi was a smart move on the Alliance's part.
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Old 2013-01-13, 23:31   Link #350
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^kind of, but not exactly if the bijuu can protect itself from it's own attack, by wrapping itself by it's tails,
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Old 2013-01-13, 23:36   Link #351
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^kind of, but not exactly if the bijuu can protect itself from it's own attack, by wrapping itself by it's tails,
If everytime it does wrap its tails around itself and need to swallow 2 balls then it is a good idea.

.....swallowing two balls..... That sounded really indecent.
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Old 2013-01-14, 07:41   Link #352
mystogan
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If everytime it does wrap its tails around itself and need to swallow 2 balls then it is a good idea.

.....swallowing two balls..... That sounded really indecent.
yup one of his own and one that the eight tails forced down it's throat
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Old 2013-01-14, 12:09   Link #353
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While YOU personally don't put much stock in exposition, it is presumptuous to say that applies to everyone.
If after our last dozen of posts on the subject this is what you think I said then we have a real communication problem.
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Old 2013-01-14, 12:46   Link #354
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If after our last dozen of posts on the subject this is what you think I said then we have a real communication problem.
Maybe, or we just don't agree.
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Old 2013-01-14, 13:34   Link #355
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I think you are just dismissing his points in one sentence. That's just what I extracted from that sentence.
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Old 2013-01-14, 14:08   Link #356
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I think you are just dismissing his points in one sentence. That's just what I extracted from that sentence.
I think I get what he is saying, if I misunderstood anything it isn't intentional. I hope no one is taking this too personally. I think his thesis is that Sakura's poor development is due to a general lack of fighting which is the hallmark of a shonen series. Is that about right?
Like I said before we are all just passing the time until 616 drops. Hopefully that will be tomorrow? The day after?
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Old 2013-01-14, 14:12   Link #357
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Nah no one here takes anything personally (I sure hope not)
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Old 2013-01-14, 20:31   Link #358
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No more prediction threads? Maybe we can see naruto do the 64 strikes on the Juubi with Hinata's assistance?
The juubi's skin might be tough but how are it's internal organs? After a blast to its insides will swallowin two chakra loads actually hurt it?
Maybe Kurama will turn into a mini Juubi?
Will team Sasuke make use of that trump card they hinted on way back when? It had something to do with the Edo tensei right? Maybe turn Madara into their thrall?

Lots of stuff to resolve, I really liked 615 for making Naruhina canon but it really didn't move the main plot along much. Let's hope some loose ends get resolved so we can get to the wedding already (you know it's coming).
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Old 2013-01-15, 05:00   Link #359
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When comes the next chapter?
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Old 2013-01-15, 06:04   Link #360
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I figured next week, since I seem to recall hearing third week of January.
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