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Old 2013-04-05, 14:08   Link #1
Write
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Loli Undertones in Anime

Preface: I don't enjoy the glorification of lolicon (or any type of sexualization of underage girls) in anime at all. Up until this season I've been strictly against any show that featured it. Even in discussion based spaces like this I've always turned a blind eye to people jokingly claiming underage characters to be their "waifu". So yeah I don't agree with the concept at all.

Lately I've been stepping out of my confort zone and trying out a few shows I skipped, one being the Index. So far I'm getting this pedophile vibe from the show. Touma shamelessly hangs around little girls and none of the other characters seem to have a problem with it. Now I know other shows have done this, in concept its harmless. Index however, takes it a step further by constantly sexualizing the relationships with these young girls. Even the teacher is a loli and as of S2 of the show it has not been addressed. Index mentions the how weird it is that Touma hangs out with little girls but again, it's ignored completely beyond that. Even the whole overarching sister theme the show bases itself around border dangerously close to incest.



I know anime can go to some taboo places but I'd rather it be addressed so I know what I'm watching. I'll even go as far as saying some shows promote the idea of pedophilia yet people wonder why anime gets a bad wrap.

Is this an anime/manga problem or did I just pick the wrong show?
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:12   Link #2
SeijiSensei
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You might want to read this recent thread on ANN which focuses on the subject of lolicon.

For shows with young girls who are not sexualized, I recommend Usagi Drop, Kurenai, Kemono no Sou-ja Erin, and Dennou Coil.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:17   Link #3
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
You might want to read this recent thread on ANN which focuses on the subject of lolicon.

For shows with young girls who are not sexualized, I recommend Usagi Drop, Kurenai, Kemono no Sou-ja Erin, and Dennou Coil.
I'm not really looking for suggestions, but thanks anyway.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:19   Link #4
blackstormattack
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I can see your stream of thoughts, but have you ever considered this can be a claim that it can be different? Even if there is a glorification what is wrong with that? Do you not enjoy it? Or do you THINK you dont enjoy it because of our society. Personally as long as i can enjoy the anime I dont see any problems.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:23   Link #5
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Originally Posted by blackstormattack View Post
I can see your stream of thoughts, but have you ever considered this can be a claim that it can be different? Even if there is a glorification what is wrong with that? Do you not enjoy it? Or do you THINK you dont enjoy it because of our society. Personally as long as i can enjoy the anime I dont see any problems.
I don't enjoy loli culture at all.

My issue with anime is choosing a side and sticking with it. If you want to express loli themes then do so, but don't sprinkle it throughout the series and fail to address it in an understandable manner.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:30   Link #6
hyl
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
I don't enjoy loli culture at all.

My issue with anime is choosing a side and sticking with it. If you want to express loli themes then do so, but don't sprinkle it throughout the series and fail to address it in an understandable manner.
Then you should avoid animes with harem themes if you don't want to see animes with loli's as possible love interests.

As for the teacher from the index and railgun series, she is an adult though
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:31   Link #7
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Then you should avoid animes with harem themes if you don't want to see animes with loli's as possible love interests
As I do, sure.

What I'm discussing here though are undertones.
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As for the teacher from the index and railgun series, she is an adult though
She's portrayed as a child, has childlike tendencies, and physically has the body of a 5 year old. I'm not willing to split hairs and ignore the loli themes because of the canon.

Not to mention the fact they never address it in the anime. If they deemed it important enough then they would have mentioned it (I'm told her childlike appearance is explained in the LN).
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:35   Link #8
hyl
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It really depends on your definition of undertone.
The "lolicon undertones" in the index and railgun series are not that big and the protagonist himself and most of the characters around him are teenagers, also you should bring up a better example because the index serie has slight harem undertones.

It's not even close as something like Kodomo no jikan
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:35   Link #9
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Undertones? No, try BLATANT.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:39   Link #10
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
It really depends on your definition of undertone.
The "lolicon undertones" in the index and railgun series are not that big and the protagonist himself and most of the characters around him are teenagers, also you should bring up a better example because the index serie has slight harem undertones.

It's not even close as something like Kodomo no jikan
There's only one definition of undertone and thats the one I'm using.

Out of all the main characters in the show that actually get screen time with Touma, most are young girls. Index is the only possible exception since she's supposed to be within Touma's age range. Be that as it may, their "bro/sis" relationship still gets brought into question.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:42   Link #11
hyl
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
There's only one definition of undertone and thats the one I'm using.

Out of all the main characters in the show that actually get screen time with Touma, most are young girls. Index is the only possible exception since she's supposed to be within Touma's age range. Be that as it may, their "bro/sis" relationship still gets brought into question.
And Touma's age is 15 >_>
Most of the female characters are around his age and younger
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:46   Link #12
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And Touma's age is 15 >_>
Most of the female characters are around his age and younger
Touma: 16
Index: 14
Mikoto: 14
Teacher: physically aged 5 year old
and not to mention the nun with the absurdly high heals, Mikoto's groupie, and other minor characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:51   Link #13
hyl
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
Touma: 16
Index: 14
Mikoto: 14
Teacher: physically aged 5 year old
and not to mention the nun with the absurdly high heals, Mikoto's groupie, and other minor characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in persons 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest toward prepubescent children.
So? If your protagonist himself is not even an adult, would it be wierd to find characters who are slightly younger than him?
Story wise, i don't think it would make sense that a mid teen proganonist is being surrounded by an "adult" harem.

Like i said, it's not even close to series like Kodomo no Jikan or Papakiki that tries to oversexualize children
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:54   Link #14
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So? If your protagonist himself is not even an adult, would it be wierd to find characters who are slightly younger than him?
Story wise, i don't think it would make sense that a mid teen proganonist who is surrounded by an "adult" harem?
Index isn't even a harem. If you think so then cool, maybe explain how? The only girl constantly near Touma on a regular basis is Index. You can't say that about every other female character in the show. But of course most anime fans associate any amount of females over 1 a "harem".
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Like i said, it's not even close to series like Kodomo no Jikan or Papakiki that tries to oversexualize children
Thats an example of blatant loli themes.

Index has undertones of loli themes.

Do you see the difference?
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:55   Link #15
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Index isn't even a harem.
And that is when you are somewhat wrong if you actually read the novels. His "harem" is quite large.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:56   Link #16
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And that is when you are somewhat wrong if you actually read the novels. His "harem" is quite large.
I'm exclusively discussing the anime, as mentioned in the OP.
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Old 2013-04-05, 14:58   Link #17
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I'm exclusively discussing the anime, as mentioned in the OP.
So? The index series are a light novel adaptation.

Plus could you actually try to mention some other examples in which you find that all the animes you have been watching are getting too much "loli undertones"?
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Old 2013-04-05, 15:02   Link #18
DanielMors
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Wait, did I get this right? You're trying to say that Toaru glorifies pedophilia and relies on incest themes? Are we watching the same show?
Yes, Komoe is a loli, but for comedy purpose. Index may be a loli (I don't count her as one, she is a bit to tall I think) but she isn't even really promiment in all story arcs, and her relationship with Touma is purely non-sexual (besides the normal shyness any teenage boy would expercience when a girls starts living under the same roof).
Calling Mikoto a loli is simply wrong, because she is simply a 14 years old with a normal body build.
Beside those characters, most other females are even overly well endorsed. Just look at Kanzaki, Orsola or Fukiyose (or many others).

I'm sorry, but to me you seem like someone who just watches this show in order to find something he can bash, and to force the "loli = pedophilia" view onto. With all you said in this thread, I don't see any way to take you serious. No offence.
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Old 2013-04-05, 15:05   Link #19
hyl
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
Index has undertones of loli themes.

Do you see the difference?
Implied loli themes, as in where? Just because the characters are younger than 16, doesn't mean that the serie has such undertones.

That is the same as saying that Prince of Tennis has loli undertones, just because there is a (somewhat) one-sided crush/romance between Sakuno and Ryouma
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Old 2013-04-05, 15:07   Link #20
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Plus could you actually try to mention some other examples in which you find that all the animes you have been watching are getting too much "loli undertones"?
When did I say that was the case? I mentioned in the OP that Index was the first show I've ever watched with straight up, shameless loli undertones.

I know what blatant is and I do a good job of avoiding those, but Index is legitimately a good show thats riddled with pointless concepts of underage sexualization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Implied loli themes, as in where? Just because the characters are younger than 16, doesn't mean that the serie has such undertones.

That is the same as saying that Prince of Tennis has loli undertones, just because there is a (somewhat) one-sided crush/romance between Sakuno and Ryouma
Have you seen the show? It has the same amounts of pointless fanservice as other anime but exclusively involves underage girls. The outfits, and the situations the characters find themselves in are all clear examples. I'm not going to go down a list and tally every instance, if you've seen the show you should at least have some idea of what I'm getting at.
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