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Old 2013-03-29, 17:31   Link #101
Haigon
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I want to know about that burned guy, if Chico really betrayed MSF and what happened to Paz.
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Old 2013-03-29, 20:00   Link #102
amaterasu4
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Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the bandaged man helping Big Boss is not real. Just like Joakim Mogren he does not belong to a reality. Just to make sure, does he actually touch Big Boss in the demo? I remember he only yells at him to move but that would make him asshole considering Big Boss' state unless he weren't real.

Also, I'm surprised that Ocelot wore the same outfit for over two decades. XD
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Old 2013-03-29, 20:02   Link #103
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the bandaged man helping Big Boss is not real. Just like Joakim Mogren he does not belong to a reality. Just to make sure, does he actually touch Big Boss in the demo? I remember he only yells at him to move but that would make him asshole considering Big Boss' state unless he weren't real.

Also, I'm surprised that Ocelot wore the same outfit for over two decades. XD
In the first Phantom Pain trailer he was supporting Snake at times I believe.... Well, not that touching matter- Fight Club anyone?
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Old 2013-03-29, 20:43   Link #104
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The whole sequence of events felt extremely screwy.

The trailer showed that Big Boss and Miller escaped the Attack on Motherbase (;_ safely, for most parts. That means that the coma-inducing injury happened either in another different event after the Attack... or in the escape helicopter itself.

And that also means it's a high likeliness that Joakim, whoever he is... is also inside that helicopter, given that the Miller, BB, and him were brought in for emergency medical attention.

Considering the whole nature of how the villains "XOF" are the designed in the 'mirror image' of FOX, I don't think it's a far-fetched assumption if Joakim is an "XOF" plant.

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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Figured the two games wouldn't be coming out at the same time. That would make no sense. I'm not very interested in Ground Zeroes at the moment, since it just seems to be a direct sequel to Peace walker, which I hated.
Indeed it makes no sense. Ground Zero trailers showed that the Attack on Motherbase happens immediately after Big Boss went off to save Chico.

Unless Kojima decides to make "Rescue of Chico" into a 20 hour long game, that involves 5 different Level Cards, I just don't see how it's feasible to split it, as Ground Zero looks like it's only 1/10th of the entire MGSV.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:00   Link #105
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Really? That disfigured guy has my interest. Watch him play a big part in seriously messing up Big Boss and Miller.
Yeah makes me wonder who is this mystery man too. Could he be the bandaged dude? Or that guy from PeaceWalker which I totally forgot the name. Or some new character.

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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the bandaged man helping Big Boss is not real. Just like Joakim Mogren he does not belong to a reality. Just to make sure, does he actually touch Big Boss in the demo? I remember he only yells at him to move but that would make him asshole considering Big Boss' state unless he weren't real.

Also, I'm surprised that Ocelot wore the same outfit for over two decades. XD
I actually think that is Kojima trying to help BigBoss. Iam guessing just like ManHunt 2 you got a "guardian" character that doesn't directly help, but gives words of encouragements to pull yourself up and tells you where to go.

Ocelot probably has that "trademark" cowboy jacket look, I won't be surprise if he's called Adam in this game.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:10   Link #106
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Originally Posted by Haigon View Post
I know that the MSX games were very shallow, but retconning the story by merging both games in the Outer Heaven would turn the plot in a mess, IMO. There are many references to BOTH conflicts in the Solid saga
Spoiler for MGS:
There's already stuff retconned via this new 9-years coma event anyway.

Such as Big Boss's involvement in the Mozambican and Rhodesian war, which was integral to how Big Boss reconnects with Gray Fox and Naomi in their early lives.

It's true that MGS makes references to the events of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land separately, but they're also nothing more than subtle nods.

If Kojima ever has the intention of closing the full-circle of the MG story by reverting back to the original showdown of BB vs SS, then I do think splitting them apart into 2 different games and 2 different conflicts, would just greatly reduce the effectiveness of it.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:16   Link #107
Haigon
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
There's already stuff retconned via this new 9-years coma event anyway.

Such as Big Boss's involvement in the Mozambican and Rhodesian war, which was integral to how Big Boss reconnects with Gray Fox and Naomi in their early lives.

It's true that MGS makes references to the events of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land separately, but they're also nothing more than subtle nods.

If Kojima ever has the intention of closing the full-circle of the MG story by reverting back to the original showdown of BB vs SS, then I do think splitting them apart into 2 different games and 2 different conflicts, would just greatly reduce the effectiveness of it.
Then, it's better to leave them alone.

Yes, that were a lot of retcons, but none to this scale.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:18   Link #108
amaterasu4
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
The trailer showed that Big Boss and Miller escaped the Attack on Motherbase (;_ safely, for most parts. That means that the coma-inducing injury happened either in another different event after the Attack... or in the escape helicopter itself.
Big Boss actually falls unconscious in the helicopter after the attack. In the trailer, Miller tries to wake him up in the helicopter and punches the wall in frustration. What confuses me is that Big Boss had his two arms back in that scene... Also what's the point of Ground Zeroes as a separate game if you know its ending? Kojima never spoiled his own games.
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Old 2013-03-29, 21:28   Link #109
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Big Boss actually falls unconscious in the helicopter after the attack. In the trailer, Miller tries to wake him up in the helicopter and punches the wall in frustration. What confuses me is that Big Boss had his two arms back in that scene...
My interpretation of that scene is a little different.

Big Boss seemed entirely unhurt during that scene, without even the blood splat that he had during the ER scene... that even Miller had.

To me, that scene felt like a moment of emotional sadness and pain coming from Big Boss, as Big Boss saw everything he has built up throughout the past years with MSF and Mother Base got destroyed... while Miller could only show his frustration though the wall-punch.

In my opinion, the attack only happened after that scene, either from an internal attack in the heli, or someone shooting the heli down.

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Then, it's better to leave them alone.

Yes, that were a lot of retcons, but none to this scale.
I'm fine with this.

There's just a part of me that's afraid that someone, one day... would pull a Twin Snakes with the original 2 Metal Gear, and completely ruin them.

Kojima may have a hard time letting go his reins over his franchise, but there's few directors like him that's able to channel a kind of surrealism, emotion, atmosphere, storytelling and execution that combines solid, powerful and crazy.

It's those things that elevate the Metal Gear franchise from being just another conspiracy military drama.
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Old 2013-03-30, 03:34   Link #110
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They might have been attacked in the helicopter and BigBoss lost his arm
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Old 2013-03-30, 08:20   Link #111
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
If Kojima ever has the intention of closing the full-circle of the MG story by reverting back to the original showdown of BB vs SS, then I do think splitting them apart into 2 different games and 2 different conflicts, would just greatly reduce the effectiveness of it.
I don't see how any effectiveness would be reduced. And what Kojima could do is remake them both into one game, where we play through the events of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Moreover, it's not like things will be an exact repeat, for as stated already those games were fairly shallow and the plot can be expanded considerably to better fit into the Solid series continuity.
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Old 2013-03-30, 11:40   Link #112
Kyral
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I don't see how any effectiveness would be reduced. And what Kojima could do is remake them both into one game, where we play through the events of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land. Moreover, it's not like things will be an exact repeat, for as stated already those games were fairly shallow and the plot can be expanded considerably to better fit into the Solid series continuity.
The idea is nice, with Part A being Outer Heaven and Part B being Zanzibar Land, but the problem is, it would be a little too much like MGS3, with Big Boss (and Grey Fox) being the "Good Guys" in Part A and the "Bad Guys" in Part B, mirroring The Boss (Or it could be intentional this way).
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:03   Link #113
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What I want to know is this game going to abandon the story completely?
The previous games were linear and so there was a way to control and tell the story the way they wanted. But, now that it's an open world game does this mean they are not going to focus on the story anymore? That's gonna eliminate a lot of fans. Seeing as the other big boss games stories were pretty shitty (except snake eater) it seems like they aren't even gonna try.
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:05   Link #114
Haigon
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Originally Posted by ikusfan View Post
What I want to know is this game going to abandon the story completely?
The previous games were linear and so there was a way to control and tell the story the way they wanted. But, now that it's an open world game does this mean they are not going to focus on the story anymore? That's gonna eliminate a lot of fans. Seeing as the other big boss games stories were pretty shitty (except snake eater) it seems like they aren't even gonna try.
Don't say that, Peace Walker was very good
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:08   Link #115
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Ground Zeroes is the game that's open-world and experimental. The Phantom Pain will be much more linear like previous MGS installments. This has already been stated by Kojima himself.

And what's with all the Peace Walker hate? Portable Ops I can understand but Peace Walker?
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:17   Link #116
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but didn't kojima said that ground zero is a smaller scale and phantom pain will be on a huge scale open world? I think he said so in the gametrailers interview.

About peace walker, the production values were unmatched, in those terms it was freaking amazing but the story, I feel, was completely pointless, they say it's the link between to the outer heaven, well wasn't portable ops supposed to be that? how many times are they gonna tell us "no really guys THIS time it's the REAL link", I mean come one stop bullshitting us.
And whats the deal with the gameplay? couldn't they just have a mode for those who are not interested in all this grinding and doing missions over and over and training your army? I just want to play the story mode, I don't care about these things, this game forced me to do things I didn't want to do, and when that happens the game is not fun anymore.
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:32   Link #117
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Ground Zeroes is the game that's open-world and experimental. The Phantom Pain will be much more linear like previous MGS installments. This has already been stated by Kojima himself.
One less reason for me to be excited about Ground Zeroes.

Quote:
And what's with all the Peace Walker hate? Portable Ops I can understand but Peace Walker?
Crappy story (Portable OPs was a lot better despite this title not even being a main entry), uninteresting characters, repetitive missions, annoying recruitment and management system. I had to force myself to get to the true ending. And of course I didn't bother finishing those optional extra missions which were a terrible attempt to artificially increase the length of the game. They were painful to play. I had no fun whatsoever doing them, especially the vehicles mission.

So if Ground Zeroes is going to be anything like that, I'm out. What I'm looking for in a MGS game is a great story, compelling characters, enjoyable gameplay and memorable bosses. PW had none of that. I wanted to play MGS, not Monster Hunter.
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:42   Link #118
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Kanon, you said my exact thoughts about peace walker. The so called "story" was just pointless, I love the series but this was the first time I felt let down by it, I even love MGS2, I love the things about it that most people hate but peace walker just hit all the wrong buttons for me, sure the tapes were fun to listen to but the comics style cutscenes were horrible I hate them so much, and again all this pointless grinding and so called "research" you have to do to get better weapons... I get frustrated just talking about the game.

If there was a story only mode then I would be more forgiving but streaching the game with all this pointless stuff in addition to a pointless story is like a finishing blow to having fun with the game.
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:46   Link #119
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Weird. I loved the story of Peace Walker and how it dealt with Big Boss trying to cope with the loss of The Boss and analysing her reason for what she did. I honestly fail to see how Portable Ops' story was superior or even that relevant to the entire series compared to it. Outer Heaven wasn't even mentioned in PO either.

And I'm pretty sure Portable Ops is a canonical entry, it's just the first of the existing 2 that weren't directed by Kojima. (The other being Rising.)

As for the gameplay fair enough, sometimes we just have things we don't find fun. I can easily sympathize with that. Kind of a shame you don't seem particularly accepting with the series trying something different though.

Though the main story mode in Peace Walker was pretty linear until you get up to the final Outer Heaven true ending chapter.

Also for me, the AI weapons were a good part of why I liked Peace Walker too.
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Old 2013-03-30, 12:50   Link #120
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Ofcource this is a personal opinion, if you liked the game then it's all cool by me. I know there are people who love it so much that they say it's the best metal gear ever and that's fine. For me portable ops wasn't any better than peace walker, the story just seems forced and unfinished.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88MOSP6Doak
start watching at 4:00, kojima says that phantom pain is a huge open world game.
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