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Old 2013-01-11, 22:20   Link #61
Marcus H.
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Quote:
There are certain series I won't even discuss with people because the fanbase seems to center around the fanservice.
Don't mind us talking about useless meat. Heck, the Maoyuu thread has some deep discussions about how economics is handled in the series, and it currently outshadows some comments on Maou's vital assets. Please be assured that intelligent discussions and fanservice comments can cohabitate without any incident.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:21   Link #62
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
That's the way I see it when it comes to eccentrics who love fanservice.
We're all eccentrics. I'd describe myself as loving character songs and tokusatsu references more than fanservice, but I'm pretty okay with fanservice too.

Also, the analogies for this discussion are getting progressively more awkward.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:22   Link #63
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
I suspect most people these days will find fanservice to be very distracting and unnecessary. It obviously serves no purpose except behind the fourth wall.
Excellent post. I snipped some of it to save space, but all of it was excellent.


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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Why does "serious" mean "no fanservice."
Anime fanservice tends to be lighthearted and kind of whimsical in nature. That clashes with scenes that have a more serious mood, imo.


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It doesn't just take place in a lighthearted work, it takes place in a fanservicey work.
VRO isn't Ikki Tousen. You're overstating your argument here.


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I think it complements the fight.
I don't. I think that it typical detracts considerably from the technical and cinematography merits of the fight. It takes away from what makes a good, serious fight good to me.


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It makes the fight more interesting, because yay, ass shots.
I don't need ass shots to find something interesting.


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If you find it distracting during fight scenes, why wouldn't you find it distracting during conversation scenes?
In some conversation scenes I might, but in a more lighthearted shows, the conversation scenes are usually lighthearted. So fanservice doesn't necessarily seem out of place to me in them.


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Beyond that you don't like them, what is wrong with fanservicey action scenes?
It often takes away from the technical and cinematography merits of a fight, imo.


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For you.
No, not just me. I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about fanservice in action scenes.


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If I'm not in it for the fanservice, I really don't have trouble ignoring fanservice where it would be distracting. For example, there is a ton of fanservice (at least relative to KyoAni's adaptations) in LB!, I notice them, but I'm not really distracted from anything important.
The fanservice in LB! is nothing like having most of your screen taken up with a close-up ass shot. Really now...


Quote:
Being noticed doesn't mean being distracted by.
Sure, but if what you notice is in your direct range of focus, and obscuring you from what you want to watch and focus on, then of course it's distracting.

This is why your cafe/Hawaii shirt guy analogy isn't applicable. You can turn away from the guy who wears that t-shirt and just focus on your your friend and/or your meal. When a big ass-shot happens, turning away from that means that you're ceasing to watch the show itself.



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Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
Why is fanservice wrong?
I never said that fanservice is wrong. I was just saying that the term "guilty pleasure" isn't entirely without validity.


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What about the people who want fanservice integrated with action scenes?
Let me ask you a question. If Strike Witches did not have fanservice in its action scenes, would that bother you? Seriously?


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Episode wise there are a lot of people that do, mainly because we are in it for the long run. It's hard to just not watch episodes done by certain staff because you don't like their style.

However, it's a lot easier with complete series. If a series doesn't take a direction I like, I just don't watch it, instead of complaining.
You can't always judge an anime by just one episode. I think most anime fans would agree with that.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:22   Link #64
DXMichael
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Fan service during action scenes are no problem for me nor do I see it a problem or a distraction. I do believe my mind is smart enough to catch a glimpse of the fan service which I can enjoy whilst staying focused on the actual action.

A lot of the times, action scenes are built up, and if not built up, then at least performed well enough to entertain. I'm not going to let a panty shot or some exposed cleavage tear my focus away from what I've been concentrating on this whole time, the characters interacting and plot heating up/reaching it's end. Sure i'll take a gleam at it and probably mention it in my comment about the episode but it's not like that's going to affect my opinion on the action itself =/

If we're talking about fan service that has more screen time than the actual action, then sure, it would kill the mood a lot. If we're talking about 5 minutes of action, then 2 seconds of a panty shot, followed by another 3 minutes of action, then I think people can at least tolerate that since it's the animators way of giving the people who do like fan service something instead of nothing at all.

Just my opinion though
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:27   Link #65
Random32
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If you want porn, watch porn.
I don't want to watch porn. I want to watch my magical girl animu that has fanservice. There is a difference.

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A show about vomit can be unique, but that doesn't make it any less grotesque.
Except to the people that for whatever reason enjoy vomit. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's automagically bad.

Quote:
That's the way I see it when it comes to eccentrics who love fanservice.
Do elaborate.

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Don't go to a baseball game if you only want to enjoy the popcorn.
What if I want to enjoy the popcorn and the game?
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:29   Link #66
Write
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Yeah I'm not going to respond to that lol.

If you want to make an actual counter argument to what I was saying, be my guest.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:29   Link #67
Dahak86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Don't go to a baseball game if you only want to enjoy the popcorn.
Why not? The baseball game could act as a little nice distraction from what you enjoy the most. (the popcorn)
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:30   Link #68
Write
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Originally Posted by Dahak86 View Post
Why not? The baseball game could act as a little nice distraction from what you enjoy the most. (the popcorn)
Now if you can logically apply that to the discussion at hand, we'll be going somewhere.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:32   Link #69
Dahak86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Now if you can logically apply that to the discussion at hand, we'll be going somewhere.
Just substitute "popcorn" with "fanservice", and "baseball game" with "action scenes".
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:33   Link #70
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
As I said, it's fans who choose what they focus on while they're watching. A studio can and will do whatever they feel is necessary to grab viewer's attention, lowbrow are not. You can't blame anyone but you're self if you choose to fall for their cheaper tactics.
Anyway, it’s not an option anymore if the fanservice shots are shoved down your throat (or in this case, they slapped it in front of your screen). Trying to ignore it is like trying to ignore the giant robots in Gundam fights. You know how futile that can be. All that said, I already said in my earlier post that my opinion that I posted is for myself and not trying to force it to others.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:38   Link #71
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
If Strike Witches did not have fanservice in its action scenes, would that bother you? Seriously?
It'd cease being Strike Witches. You can't change the composition of the dish and assume it won't impact the flavour. You're just asserting that it'd taste better that way. Who knows... I think it was just fine the way it was. I'm supposing most of the people who enjoyed the show felt the same way. Who is to say that they would have enjoyed it more (or "the same") by performing the split you want?


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Originally Posted by Write View Post
Now if you can logically apply that to the discussion at hand, we'll be going somewhere.
Now you can actually watch baseball and eat popcorn at the same time!

(The analogy is a trap either way you do it because you've made the two mutually exclusive, just like the "porn" vs. "not porn" false-dichotomy that was contested in the first place. )
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:38   Link #72
Write
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Originally Posted by Dahak86 View Post
Just substitute "popcorn" with "fanservice", and "baseball game" with "action scenes".
So, Action scenes can be a nice distraction to what you really came to see, fanservice?

That's illogical, which is the exact point I'm trying to make. If you want ass shots and panties then your time will be better served in a show, or better yet genre, that caters to those particular interests.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:41   Link #73
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't consider anime selection to be a "vice" like overeating, which can be objectively bad for your health.
In my experience, when people call something a "guilty pleasure" it's usually because they like something that they personally consider morally questionable, or in some way harmful to their health. I don't think there's harm in a person being honest with himself or herself about that inner contradiction. It's part of being a flawed human being, imo.

Very few people have no vices at all, after all.


Quote:
This is the very same straw man that you used the other day.
What strawman?


Quote:
You said yourself that there are plenty of other shows that keep the fanservice out of the serious action scenes. The fact that this show may not is part of the global "clothing variety".
That variety is already ensured by the Ikki Tousens of the world.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:44   Link #74
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
If you want ass shots and panties then your time will be better served in a show, or better yet genre, that caters to those particular interests.
I'll shift this to another one of my "eccentricities" to show that mixing genres and elements can be a good thing. And I'll try my best to make an analogy that doesn't come off as painfully awkward.

If I wanted to see a tokusatsu show, why not just watch one? There are plenty out there. And I do. But when a show uses tokusatsu elements (Nyarko takes the gold star in this category), comedically or not, it gives the series some additional meaning to me because it puts together two things I enjoy. Maybe the toku element isn't completely emphasized (like me having to deal with a romance plot that may attract other people, but isn't my primary attraction), but because it's there, it grabs my attention and makes the show something only it can be.

This works for fanservice too. It can be in small amounts or large amounts, but it's a surprisingly flexible element that can be blended with a lot of things, and not just comedies.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:46   Link #75
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
It'd cease being Strike Witches. You can't change the composition of the dish and assume it won't impact the flavour. You're just asserting that it'd taste better that way. Who knows... I think it was just fine the way it was. I'm supposing most of the people who enjoyed the show felt the same way. Who is to say that they would have enjoyed it more (or "the same") by performing the split you want? Who is to say that they would have enjoyed it more (or "the same") by performing the split you want?
And who is to say that they wouldn't have?

How many people who liked Strike Witches also liked Nanoha StrikerS? The core appeals of both shows are fairly similar, but one has less fanservice in action scenes than the other.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:47   Link #76
Marcus H.
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RE Baseball analogy: I think it's a bit weak. Let's go with round girls in a boxing match or buxom cheerleaders in a basketball game.

No comment on Strike Witches and Nanoha StrikerS because I did not either.
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Summer 2014: Hanayamata, Rail Wars!, Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?, Sabagebu!, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Hanamonogatari.
Autumn 2014: Log Horizon S2, Amagi Brilliant Park and Fate/Stay Night (2014).
Excited for Mitou Shoukan://Blood Sign?


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 36. Completed: 214. Plan to watch: 33.

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Old 2013-01-11, 22:50   Link #77
Write
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I skipped Strike Witches altogether because the fanservice is rather cheap, and some of it borders along the lines of lolicon....and yeah I'm not with that lol.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:51   Link #78
Midonin
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
How many people who liked Strike Witches also liked Nanoha StrikerS? The core appeals of both shows are fairly similar, but one has less fanservice in action scenes than the other.
And one has WWII elements while another has mecha show elements mixed with a largely original set of powers and rules, and one is a sequel to an established property while the other isn't, and so on. Comparing any two shows only works so far. It eventually starts to look like a really blotty series of Venn diagrams.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:52   Link #79
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
I skipped Strike Witches altogether because the fanservice is rather cheap, and some of it borders along the lines of lolicon....and yeah I'm not with that lol.
I watched two episodes of Strike Witches, and the fanservice ruined the show for me. I'm pretty confident I would have enjoyed the show if not for fanservice being in its action scenes.
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Old 2013-01-11, 22:52   Link #80
Random32
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Anime fanservice tends to be lighthearted and kind of whimsical in nature. That clashes with scenes that have a more serious mood, imo.
Okay then, third scale for seriousness, "serious" vs "not important."

Most of the fanservice fighting scenes in Vivdred so far imho are
-Serious as in not "not important."
-Fluffy
-Fanservice

While the situations are very important for the characters, the anime doesn't present them as "serious" (as in not fluffy).

Quote:
I don't. I think that it typical detracts considerably from the technical and cinematography merits of the fight. It takes away from what makes a good, serious fight good to me.
So learn to ignore it, or watch one of the shows that doesn't go for this blend.

Maybe if the story becomes epic good and you really want that part of it, I would see why you want it to be different so much, but as of now, we are 1 ep in, it's not too late to jump ship if you don't like what you see. I generally wait until ep3, but if I don't like the way a series is going, I'm not going to watch it, simple.

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I don't need ass shots to find something interesting.
more interesting.

I think the context of the scenes and the series lends itself to fanservice including in fight scenes. I don't see the need for a break from fanservice just because they are fighting.

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In some conversation scenes I might, but in a more lighthearted shows, the conversation scenes are usually lighthearted. So fanservice doesn't necessarily seem out of place to me in them.
I don't think we are far enough into the series to place this show on the "serious" vs "not important" scale yet. So far most of the stuff has been on the "serious" side of that.

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It often takes away from the technical and cinematography merits of a fight, imo.
Are there not technical and cinematographic merits of the perfect fanservice shots?

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No, not just me. I'm not the only one who feels the way I do about fanservice in action scenes.
Of course. I meant for "you and people who think like you." I know they exist, and in pretty good numbers as well, and there are series that are made with you in mind. This series doesn't happen to be one of them.

Quote:
The fanservice in LB! is nothing like having most of your screen taken up with a close-up ass shot. Really now...
If I wanted to not get distracted by a fullscreen ass shot, I wouldn't be.

Back to the Hawaii shirt analogy. LB!'s fanservice is like a person in a Hawaii shirt walking past you. Vividred is like the person standing in line in front of you is wearing a Hawaii shirt. It's even more noticeable, but I'm still not distracted.

Quote:
Sure, but if what you notice is in your direct range of focus, and obscuring you from what you want to watch and focus on, then of course it's distracting.
You don't just have a fanservice problem then, you just don't like how they chose to do their fight scene (which I'll admit has a lot to do with their stance on fanservice in them). You could replace the ass with the back of a rocket motor or something and it wouldn't matter.

Quote:
I never said that fanservice is wrong. I was just saying that the term "guilty pleasure" isn't entirely without validity.
I don't think it's valid for anime though. Saying that I should feel bad enjoying fanservice is persecuting thoughtcrime. It doesn't hurt anyone, including me.

Quote:
Let me ask you a question. If Strike Witches did not have fanservice in its action scenes, would that bother you? Seriously?
I wouldn't be bothered by it watching, I might think about it and find it funny afterwards considering how it fits in with the rest of the series. I can ignore lack of fanservice where fanservice would be appropriate just as well as I can ignore fanservice where fanservice isn't.
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