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Old 2013-01-13, 02:48   Link #21
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Whether or not it hurts some feelings is a personal issue and it's not very becoming to reflect said issues onto the rest of the community as if it's some unspoken rule that we must only speak of anime with positive acclaim.
I don't know why people come to this conclusion. This does not logically follow from anything I said. You can have whatever negative opinion you'd like! The forum thrives on contrary opinions, and that should never go away! Nobody wants the forum to turn into an echo chamber of "yes-men"! All opinions can thrive! But they can also be stated in ways that are more constructive. Each person has the ability to make this choice when they write.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Just to generally apply to the above, it's immature and narrow minded to hold constructive criticism in such low regard.
Let me ask: how do you define "constructive"? Some people act as if "constructive criticism" simply means "I have to give reasons for my opinions", as if reasons alone make something constructive. But if I have an opinion that "90% of all forum posters are trash" (I don't have this opinion) and I provide "reasons" for this opinion, does that make my opinion "constructive criticism"? No, because it's hateful and offensive. It's destructive. But people state opinions about anime that are absolutely no less hateful and dismissive of other people, whether it's people involved in the show's production or the people who are enjoying the show. And they act like "well, it's obviously just my opinion", while insinuating unabashedly that they're Absolutely Right unless someone can prove them wrong. It's a miracle that anything "constructive" can result from such an attitude, but it's still pitched by some people as "constructive criticism".


We are all responsible for the words that we write. The words we choose convey our tone, and our tone influences the way our words will be received. What sort of conversation do you want to have? Do you want to start a fight to prove your opinion is Right (TM), or do you want to have a conversation about how we all see things differently? The choice is yours. And as a mod, it frustrates me endlessly that people often choose the more destructive option out of what I can either assume is arrogance, ignorance, or indifference. If someone cares so little for the feelings of others, it makes me wonder why anyone would expect anyone to care about them, and it renders the whole thing futile.

This is not because I want to live in a world where all opinions are positive and everyone just agrees with each other. That is completely impossible, and completely stifling to the quintessential human experience of individuality and uniqueness that I cherish very much. But I do wish I could live in a world where the first instinct isn't to reach for the throat of your opposition and strangle as hard as you can, waiting for the other party to strangle back and see who remains standing. There may be things worth fighting for with that much vigour, but enjoying anime is -- in my view anyway -- not one of them.
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Old 2013-01-13, 02:51   Link #22
Dahak86
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Anyway, the real point (for regular forum posters) is simple: don't be so much of a dumbass as to post things which might be obviously inflammatory to a large portion of the forum's community.
There's quite the variety of topics/things which "might be obviously inflammatory to a large portion of the forum's community" - Should one not talk about'em?

Quote:
Haha. It must be unfortunate from the perspective of a forum moderator, but the truth might be that some people just do want to fight.
Eristic, yes. Which could also be described as: the art of debating for the sake of debating. - And no, it's not necessarily always a bad thing.
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Old 2013-01-13, 02:51   Link #23
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't know how many times I have seen people make this same false argument. That isn't it at all, and it never has been. It's about the way things are stated. Since you understand that it's all subjective to begin with, why make assertive claims that are obviously objectively false?
Well objectively false isn't quite right, but yes, there is no real "truth" here to discover in most cases. Art is ultimately something that has to appeal to the audience and whether or not the audience likes it determines its success.

That being said, isn't it natural to be assertive when it comes to the merits of an individual work for a particular viewer? If it is not successful for you, there isn't an "if," "and," or "but" here. Why would I question my own views? Furthermore, why should I have to clarify that something is my own view to other people? I know you said this is a pet peeve of yours, but ironically, just the opposite has been a pet peeve of mine for ages.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Like this:

Why state your opinion in this way? All I have to say is "Strike Witches made exceptionally great use of [fanservice]" and your statement is proven false because its inherently unprovable. You can put forward a mountain of justification, and it still won't be true. Nothing you can do can ever make it true. And in the process of stating things that way, you a) make yourself look like an arrogant jerk (at least potentially), and b) put everyone who disagrees on the defensive. Why not just choose your words more carefully? That's all it is! Change your words, change the tone, change the reception!
Because it is my personal belief. It is simply redundant to say " I think _____" or "in my opinion _____." The reason I have never complied with people's wishes to do this in my posts is because 1) as I said before I find it to be self-evident, and 2) they (Not necessarily you) often impose double standards upon people based on whether their views are negative or not.

I think instead of trying to view these things like as if somebody is trying to prove certain things in a science experiment, it would do us better if you tried to see this as if someone is trying to write a persuasive essay of a particular viewpoint. Someone goes around and calls anime XYZ the best anime ever, and then provides reasoning and analysis of the anime to try and explain to others why they felt it was so great. Isn't this the foundation of criticism in art in general? Though I am quite aware how you feel about the role and practices of critics, but this again as always, seem to be one of our most fundamental disagreements.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
My intention here is to sound exasperated, because I am. I just don't understand why people don't consider it "worth the effort" to edit their statements just slightly and completely change the tone of the conversation. Is this, like, something your parents taught you? Something you learned in school? A habit? A personal belief? Argh...
It's not really about the effort, since it would negligible to me to reform my statements. For me it's a matter of principle, and like you, this is an issue that has personally frustrated me since my first forage onto online discussion forums. I am really not trying to be a dick or sound arrogant in doing so, though I am aware that you might feel this is how I come across, but I tend to find it offensive when people need to constantly point out that something is my opinion. Maybe your intentions are not so nefarious, but too many times do other posters do this as a form of dismissal. It's like saying, " well that's all good and all, but at the end of the day it's just your opinion and so it doesn't matter." I hope you can understand why such statements can feel so aggravating to me here.

So yes, it is my opinion and it might also not be convincing to some, but do people really believe that I am somehow distorting the conversation by not clarifying that my thoughts are not cold hard facts? I could see your point if what is being discussed is more concrete, but it isn't. These are just the thoughts and feelings of individuals about works of art, for the most part.
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Old 2013-01-13, 02:56   Link #24
Write
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My post didn't logically follow anything you said because it was not directed at you.

I haven't been here long but wow must it be frustrating to debate with a moderator who has such a large axe to grind. Yikes! No more 2deep4u logic! Please I'll do anything!

Last edited by Write; 2013-01-13 at 03:13.
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:13   Link #25
Traece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Just to generally apply to the above, it's immature and narrow minded to hold constructive criticism in such low regard. This is a discussion board relating to 'general anime' meaning positive or negative, users have the right to address how they feel on any given subject within the rules of the section. Whether or not it hurts some feelings is a personal issue and it's not very becoming to reflect said issues onto the rest of the community as if it's some unspoken rule that we must only speak of anime with positive acclaim.
A lot of people do give constructive criticism without much if any backlash.

I'm probably the most vocal giver of constructive criticism on Asuki at the moment and I've not received any backlash that I can recall. I check subsequent posts too. I've been doing this since I joined and I've very rarely had issues except from troublemakers who have a habit of mouthing off to other members when they disagree.

I usually try a compliment sandwich sort of approach. I like to give both good and bad criticism in that I have more good to say about most anime than bad, especially if I've actually watched the entire thing. If I really didn't like an anime then I generally wont have watched 100% of it, as was the case with my wall of text about my disliking of Bleach for a lot of very specific reasons. The majority of my harsher criticisms are related to things that I found to be very disappointing about a property, and that usually happens when I feel that a good idea has gone to waste. Nothing irks me more about an anime or manga than wasted potential. Seeing something that is a shadow of what it could have been destroys enjoyment for me quickly, but at the same time I can certainly see good in what has been done and sympathize with those who like it. For my more minor criticisms: if I don't give very specific examples or I lack details on a specific issue, it usually means that I "feel" that there was an issue but I can't "recall" the issue in detail. I've been watching anime for over half my life and often in a critical sense, and it doesn't hurt my enjoyment of it any. The same with movies to a lesser degree and video games which I play more than I watch anime most of the time. More often than not, and especially these days, I get the impression that people on Asuki really aren't bothered by what I have to say even if they disagree. (edit: although that's just my interpretation of the fact that people generally don't respond to me except to agree. )

Hilariously, I spent a lot of time last semester copy editing. This Monday I'll be starting yet another semester of almost assuredly that same task. I seem to be so good at this that I should just make a life out of it.
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:19   Link #26
Write
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traece View Post
A lot of people do give constructive criticism without much if any backlash.

I'm probably the most vocal giver of constructive criticism on Asuki at the moment and I've not received any backlash that I can recall. I check subsequent posts too. I've been doing this since I joined and I've very rarely had issues except from troublemakers who have a habit of mouthing off to other members when they disagree.
From what I'm reading the issue seems to lay equally with one's unwillingness to look beyond how someone says something but instead examine why.

I mean we're literally talking about how people post because it's so relevant to anime. This is important.
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:22   Link #27
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
So yes, it is my opinion and it might also not be convincing to some, but do people really believe that I am somehow distorting the conversation by not clarifying that my thoughts are not cold hard facts?
Yes I really believe that's the case because this the internet where i've seen a great number of people who believe their opinion is a fact and need to be reminded that it's not,therefore my first reflex as a reader if I don't know the poster is to assume that if someone states something such as "Strike Witches made exceptionally poor use of it though" they believe it's a fact.

I know you now so I know that's not the case with you,but my first impression of you was "what a jerk" (and that was reading a post on ore no imouto I completely agreed with)
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:40   Link #28
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I think instead of trying to view these things like as if somebody is trying to prove certain things in a science experiment, it would do us better if you tried to see this as if someone is trying to write a persuasive essay of a particular viewpoint. Someone goes around and calls anime XYZ the best anime ever, and then provides reasoning and analysis of the anime to try and explain to others why they felt it was so great. Isn't this the foundation of criticism in art in general?
There are a lot of potential problems with this in a Forum settings.

First, I don't fundamentally believe that enjoyment is, itself, objective, so the value in "persuading" someone is limited. At best you can persuade someone that your stated opinion is logically consistent with your stated reasoning. This is a writing exercise, but isn't itself essential to either having or sharing points of view.

Second, I don't believe the validity of your opinion is tied to your ability to be "persuasive" in explaining it. The skill of writing a critique is not required to have an opinion about anime, and not all who participate in the forum are people seeking to either write "persuasive essays" and be challenged by "persuasive essays" in return. Some want that, but not everyone does. Besides, not all forum posters are native English speakers.

Third, if the fundamental premise sounds dismissive, arrogant, or narrow-minded, I'm not sure that any amount of "persuasive writing" fixes that. It only makes a bad situation worse in many senses (because it reinforces that you're not just saying something, but that you really fundamentally believe it).

That is not by any means trying to say that the forum is not a place where these sorts of critiques can be written and shared. But I do think that critiques that seem particularly scathing particularly of the audience who enjoys the show can be, at least, problematic. It is always the nature of entertainment that most people will gravitate to shows they like, and away from shows they dislike. If someone chooses to stick through shows they dislike and always talk about the same things they don't like about it week after week (particularly if it's some fundamental incompatibility with the genre or the premise itself)... it will begin to grate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I tend to find it offensive when people need to constantly point out that something is my opinion. Maybe your intentions are not so nefarious, but too many times do other posters do this as a form of dismissal. It's like saying, " well that's all good and all, but at the end of the day it's just your opinion and so it doesn't matter." I hope you can understand why such statements can feel so aggravating to me here.
If I were to venture a guess, I would suppose that this "dismissal" of your opinion could be a reaction to a feeling that they themselves were being "dismissed" by your opinion (whether that was your intention or not). This is why I think tone of voice is so critical in writing. You may be philosophically opposed to moderating your tone, but I don't think that will lessen the tendency for some people to want to dismiss your opinion. Again, not for the actual body of the opinion, but because of the tone of the speaker.

So from my honest point of view, it seems like the reason you're so frustrated by the "it's just your opinion" dismissal is precisely because you don't tend to acknowledge the nature of opinion in the tone. This may seem somehow contrarian, but I've generally found that more inclusive your point of view, the more people are inclined to listen to what you have to say, even if it happens to be negative. But that's only been my personal experience, of course.


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Originally Posted by Write View Post
I haven't been here long but wow must it be frustrating to debate with a moderator who has such a large axe to grind. Yikes!
I don't think I have an axe to grind (although I do want people on the forum to generally get along, obviously), but of course I do have pet peeves like every other human being. I don't think my having an opinion has anything to do with being a moderator (though it is influenced by that experience), and I want to believe that people can debate with me about this just like they'd debate with anyone else with an opinion. I want to discuss my perspective so that I can understand how other people think, and other people can understand how I think. That way hopefully we can get a step closer to mutual understanding, which is my ideal.

I suppose some might say that it'd be better for me to not even say anything, but I really do believe in the sharing of opinions, controversial or otherwise. I try to act consistently with those convictions. There are things that frustrate me, but I want to try to understand so that hopefully it can help make the forum better for everyone in some way. It's not helpful for me if I don't understand where people are honestly coming from.
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:53   Link #29
Write
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't think I have an axe to grind (although I do want people on the forum to generally get along, obviously), but of course I do have pet peeves like every other human being. I don't think my having an opinion has anything to do with being a moderator (though it is influenced by that experience), and I want to believe that people can debate with me about this just like they'd debate with anyone else with an opinion. I want to discuss my perspective so that I can understand how other people think, and other people can understand how I think. That way hopefully we can get a step closer to mutual understanding, which is my ideal.

I suppose some might say that it'd be better for me to not even say anything, but I really do believe in the sharing of opinions, controversial or otherwise. I try to act consistently with those convictions. There are things that frustrate me, but I want to try to understand so that hopefully it can help make the forum better for everyone in some way. It's not helpful for me if I don't understand where people are honestly coming from.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
And as a mod, it frustrates me endlessly that people often choose the more destructive option out of what I can either assume is arrogance, ignorance, or indifference.
-Bringing up you're modship while presenting your personal opinion of another user-

Ad Hominems filled your post before this one; maybe things aren't as personal as you may think. Just a thought.
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Old 2013-01-13, 03:54   Link #30
Traece
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Yes I really believe that's the case because this the internet where i've seen a great number of people who believe their opinion is a fact and need to be reminded that it's not,therefore my first reflex as a reader if I don't know the poster is to assume that if someone states something such as "Strike Witches made exceptionally poor use of it though" they believe it's a fact.
I feel like there's another great point to be made here.

When I have criticisms to give I always try to place myself in the shoes of someone who would be likely to disagree with me. As if I were trying to disagree with my own opinion. The first thing is that if my criticism is short enough that all I have to say is, "I disagree with you," I've done something horribly wrong. I try to aim for something that would require conversation. If people disagree with what I have to say, I want what I've said to get a constructive response back. "I don't really agree with that. I thought that Ichigo being an independent was a good move on Kubo's part. It's very cliche to see the character join up with what would be his respective organization and just run around episodically killing monsters and fighting bad guys."

This is a forum. I want to have constructive conversations with you. If I wanted to have an argument I would go talk to people in real life that I don't like.

Incidentally, I now have a desire to name Relentless's so-called "axe." I like to imagine moderators and staff running around with their own respective weaponry which they use to dispense forum justice like overpowered main character.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:03   Link #31
Ithekro
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One thing I still don't find logical in this setting is the role of the critic.

Okay, you don't like the show. Okay fine, we get that.

*months pass*

Okay you still don't like this show. Why are you still watching it than?
"Because I am a critic."
Why?!

Why do you feel the need to be a critic? Watching something you don't like on your own time and posting about why you don't like it? It isn't like you are going to get paid to be a critic here, nor is it likely to gain you anything in particular.

It doesn't sound logical to spend ones time, spending hours even, watching something one doesn't like over and over again for months at a time, just to go around telling people why you don't like it...sometimes in detail. Especially if one is not getting paid to do it.

I can understand doing this for a few episodes because you are not sure what you are getting into, or changing one's mind later in a season because a show they liked turned to crap, but why subject oneself to something they know they don't like even before watching even one episode? Again, without pay.

Is there some hidden enjoyment I am missing?
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:06   Link #32
Write
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To speak on what someone brought up earlier in the thread, "debating for the sake of debating".

I'd rather read a thread that offers a varied set of descriptive reasoning than a thread with the same points of agreement. That's bad discussion. A person's use of "devil's advocacy" shouldn't be called into question when their efforts are directly stimulating the conversation.

Yeah, but you're using destructive language that make us as a community feel uneasy. How belligerent of you!

You could always ignore the post. Also no, I do not believe playing devil's advocate and straight up flaming/trolling is the same thing.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:09   Link #33
Traece
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I can understand doing this for a few episodes because you are not sure what you are getting into, or changing one's mind later in a season because a show they liked turned to crap, but why subject oneself to something they know they don't like even before watching even one episode? Again, without pay.

Is there some hidden enjoyment I am missing?
Yeah. I never understood this.

It's one thing to trudge through something because there's an expectation behind it, but watching something you don't like just because? If you don't like it, DROP IT.

I check out a synopsis of every anime I've ever watched, and maybe glance over some reviews if I'm on the edge. I know what I like. I know what I want to see, and I know what interests me. If I pick it up and I don't like what I'm seeing, I drop it. Permanently. Fortunately my list of dropped anime is very small because I'm good at picking things I know I'll enjoy.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:13   Link #34
Reckoner
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Is there some hidden enjoyment I am missing?
Depends on the person. Some have fun reveling in what they perceive as bad. Some have fun simply being derisive of bad works. Some watch to be part of a larger overall conversation on the medium and be more informed about anime in general. There are many reasons, some asinine and some good, why a critic may slog out a work they don't like. If there really was 0 benefit, interest, or enjoyment to be had here, no one would do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
There are a lot of potential problems with this in a Forum settings.

First, I don't fundamentally believe that enjoyment is, itself, objective, so the value in "persuading" someone is limited. At best you can persuade someone that your stated opinion is logically consistent with your stated reasoning. This is a writing exercise, but isn't itself essential to either having or sharing points of view.
No no no, I am not trying to say enjoyment is objective. It is subjective. A forum is a place for discussion no? So when one expresses their views here, we'd hope at least that they'd provide reasoning and actual thoughts to support whatever they're saying. It's to effectively communicate a point of view. So when someone is opting to make some form of criticism (positive or negative), then because the person outlines their thoughts it's easier to understand how they arrived to their personal conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Second, I don't believe the validity of your opinion is tied to your ability to be "persuasive" in explaining it. The skill of writing a critique is not required to have an opinion about anime, and not all who participate in the forum are people seeking to either write "persuasive essays" and be challenged by "persuasive essays" in return. Some want that, but not everyone does. Besides, not all forum posters are native English speakers.
Anyone is allowed to have an opinion of course, and they can be for a variety of reasons. I didn't mention persuasive essay because I felt that the goal of everyone here is to persuade others (My fault I should've been more clear), but moreso how in a persuasive essay, people come up with supporting evidence to support whatever they say. Someone can come into a thread and say "I LUV THIS EP", but unless they say why they loved the episode, there isn't really a discussion. So naturally the discussion stems from that "why," and that is why I used the analogy of a persuasive essay.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Third, if the fundamental premise sounds dismissive, arrogant, or narrow-minded, I'm not sure that any amount of "persuasive writing" fixes that. It only makes a bad situation worse in many senses (because it reinforces that you're not just saying something, but that you really fundamentally believe it).

That is not by any means trying to say that the forum is not a place where these sorts of critiques can be written and shared. But I do think that critiques that seem particularly scathing particularly of the audience who enjoys the show can be, at least, problematic. It is always the nature of entertainment that most people will gravitate to shows they like, and away from shows they dislike. If someone chooses to sticks through shows they dislike and always talk about the same things they don't like about it week after week (particularly if it's some fundamental incompatibility with the genre or the premise itself)... it will begin to grate.
This seems a bit tangential to what we were talking about though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
If I were to venture a guess, I would suppose that this "dismissal" of your opinion could be a reaction to a feeling that they themselves were being "dismissed" by your opinion (whether that was your intention or not). This is why I think tone of voice is so critical in writing. You may be philosophically opposed to moderating your tone, but I don't think that will lessen the tendency for some people to want to dismiss your opinion. Again, not for the actual body of the opinion, but because of the tone of the speaker.

So from my honest point of view, it seems like the reason you're so frustrated by the "it's just your opinion" dismissal is precisely because you don't tend to acknowledge the nature of opinion in the tone. This may seem somehow contrarian, but I've generally found that more inclusive your point of view, the more people are inclined to listen to what you have to say, even if it happens to be negative. But that's only been my personal experience, of course.
Eh I think there's something that doesn't feel quite right here. I personally don't see how tone is related to whether I clarify something as my opinion. There's no difference between "this show is crap" and "In my opinion this show is crap." Tone is a whole other conversation, and well I tend to be rough in discussions and I admit that. My main overall point here is that I do not see the point of having to point out something that I truly see as trivial. Thoughts about the artistic merits of an anime really are subjective and I would like to believe that the average poster is insightful enough to recognize this (lest you want to make me even more cynical).

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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Yes I really believe that's the case because this the internet where i've seen a great number of people who believe their opinion is a fact and need to be reminded that it's not,therefore my first reflex as a reader if I don't know the poster is to assume that if someone states something such as "Strike Witches made exceptionally poor use of it though" they believe it's a fact.

I know you now so I know that's not the case with you,but my first impression of you was "what a jerk" (and that was reading a post on ore no imouto I completely agreed with)
Used to it .

Well like I said before, for me it's a matter of principle. If people really have so much trouble making that distinction, I am not so sure what to say really. I personally would like to believe that readers are able to distinguish between facts and opinions fairly easily in such discussions.

In any case, I am aware of how my tone may affect other people sometimes, but I think the reason I run into issues has little to do with me clarifying that something is my opinion. That's insignificant compared to the language and phrasing I use in general.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:18   Link #35
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
One thing I still don't find logical in this setting is the role of the critic.

Okay, you don't like the show. Okay fine, we get that.

*months pass*

Okay you still don't like this show. Why are you still watching it than?
"Because I am a critic."
Why?!

Why do you feel the need to be a critic? Watching something you don't like on your own time and posting about why you don't like it? It isn't like you are going to get paid to be a critic here, nor is it likely to gain you anything in particular.

It doesn't sound logical to spend ones time, spending hours even, watching something one doesn't like over and over again for months at a time, just to go around telling people why you don't like it...sometimes in detail. Especially if one is not getting paid to do it.

I can understand doing this for a few episodes because you are not sure what you are getting into, or changing one's mind later in a season because a show they liked turned to crap, but why subject oneself to something they know they don't like even before watching even one episode? Again, without pay.

Is there some hidden enjoyment I am missing?
Here's a whole thread regarding this
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:22   Link #36
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
-Bringing up you're modship while presenting your personal opinion of another user-

Ad Hominems filled your post before this one; maybe things aren't as personal as you may think. Just a thought.
It's a topic that is precisely about the way some people choose to state their opinions about entertainment. Yes, other people and the way they state their opinion is the topic. As a mod, this impacts me because I have to often act, since such behaviour either is or can result in posts that are against the Forum Rules and corrosive to on-going constructive conversation (which is often contrary to the intention of the original poster). But I don't like stepping into debates, because I want people to have good conversations about their points of view and disagreements. If we can all understand where each other is coming from, then we may be able to reduce some of the anger that results from misunderstandings about people's intentions as conveyed in the tone of their writing.

But anyway, I don't really see how this isn't also "ad hominem". You've made a number of comments that are specifically about me here, rather than addressing the overall points about tone and the presentation of opinion (though you have made some posts about that too). So if this is going to be a game of pot and kettle, well, I guess we're both black.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
There's no difference between "this show is crap" and "In my opinion this show is crap."
Well, yes, this much is certain. You can't just add "in my opinion" as if it's some sort of tack-on that makes everything okay. This is like people who say something really dismissive and then add "no offence". Oh really? It's more than just adding a few words here and there, obviously. As you say, it's the language and phrasing used overall that conveys the tone.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:28   Link #37
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I don't have any ill intentions, if it seems like I'm trying to force an issue it's because I'm genuinely interested in opinions other than my own.

This topic is growing increasingly meta personal and that's not what I signed up for. I'm going to remove myself from it.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:32   Link #38
Marcus H.
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I feel like a child listening to giants talk to each other.

I don't think relentlessflame is wrong to advise the community to "tone down" when throwing out their opinions, as it will be less inducing to flaming, and he will end up dealing with that since it is going to be his job as a moderator anyway. I have witnessed some discussions wherein it becomes so heated up that a mod has to step in, and with the myriad of threads running around the forums, I'm sure that the moderators have reached their breaking points some time.

Oh, and I also remember seeing you as a jerk as well, Reckoner.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:39   Link #39
Traece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I feel like a child listening to giants talk to each other.

I don't think relentlessflame is wrong to advise the community to "tone down" when throwing out their opinions, as it will be less inducing to flaming, and he will end up dealing with that since it is going to be his job as a moderator anyway. I have witnessed some discussions wherein it becomes so heated up that a mod has to step in, and with the myriad of threads running around the forums, I'm sure that the moderators have reached their breaking points some time.

Oh, and I also remember seeing you as a jerk as well, Reckoner.
Again, I have to agree here. I don't personally see a lot of arguments going on on Asuki these days, but I know they exist. They're a problem in one way or another and need to be dealt with. I'm sure Relentless didn't start this thread in an official moderator capacity, but it certainly helps bring attention to a real issue.

I also like to think that he did this so that he could be part of the argument for once.
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Old 2013-01-13, 04:45   Link #40
NoemiChan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Okay you still don't like this show. Why are you still watching it than?
"Because I am a critic."
Uhmm.. Question, is a critic'c critic valid if he only watched a part of the series and never actually finish it? Its like saying "The foods here taste awful, knowing he only ate 1 out 5 of the dishes served."
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