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Old 2004-04-17, 13:33   Link #41
Muad'Dib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Exactly, we don't know, did you read my first post?

...

The fact is that we have no idea of the amount of chakra that Naruto would have without the Kyubi, not even a slight thought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Naruto (if he's a normal human and not some kind of reincarnation/clone/whatever) without the Kyubi is a normal ninja, with a normal amount of chakra and a normal chakra's control.
Care to clarify how you're not directly contradicting yourself?

And you don't believe the forest arc supplies any hints at all as to how powerful Naruto could be without the kyuubi? I know that blue chakra isn't all Naruto's chakra because the kyuubi's has mixed with his, but I thought Orochimaru's seal temporarily stopped that.
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Old 2004-04-17, 13:48   Link #42
Hunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muad'Dib
Care to clarify how you're not directly contradicting yourself?
Where did you see a contradiction?
You fail to see why a normal human would be... normal?

Quote:
And you don't believe the forest arc supplies any hints at all as to how powerful Naruto could be without the kyuubi? I know that blue chakra isn't all Naruto's chakra because the kyuubi's has mixed with his, but I thought Orochimaru's seal temporarily stopped that.
No, the 5 elements seal can't stop what's already existing, the presence of the Kyubi 'built' slowly the stamina of Naruto as it is now, nobody can withdraw this, it how Naruto is now.

It only sealed the link of chakra between Naruto and the Kyubi that the 4th created, preventing both chakra to mix with each other (without speaking of a direct use of Kyubi's chakra), breaking the balance of the chakra of Naruto and thus Naruto couldn't control his chakra very well, it was even worse than usually.
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Old 2004-04-17, 14:29   Link #43
Muad'Dib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Where did you see a contradiction?
You fail to see why a normal human would be... normal?
Well, you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The fact is that we have no idea of the amount of chakra that Naruto would have without the Kyubi, not even a slight thought.
and before you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Naruto without the Kyubi is a normal ninja, with a normal amount of chakra and a normal chakra's control.
In one instance you said that "we have no idea of the amount of chakra that Naruto would have without the Kyubi", and in the other you said he'd have a "normal amount of chakra" without the Kyubi. I don't think I can paint out the contradiction any clearer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
No, the 5 elements seal can't stop what's already existing, the presence of the Kyubi 'built' slowly the stamina of Naruto as it is now, nobody can withdraw this, it how Naruto is now.

It only sealed the link of chakra between Naruto and the Kyubi that the 4th created, preventing both chakra to mix with each other (without speaking of a direct use of Kyubi's chakra), breaking the balance of the chakra of Naruto and thus Naruto couldn't control his chakra very well, it was even worse than usually.
Stamina isn't just a quality--it's the both the ability to reproduce chakra and the initial amount of chakra. Naruto has built his ability to reproduce chakra up through hard work--just as Lee did with his speed, but it has also been supplemented by the Kyubi, as well as his initial amount of chakra.

I fail to see how you believe nothin can stop the Kyubi's interaction with Naruto's chakra. It's not that the seal stopped what was already existing--it's that it withdrew what was already co-existing. You acknowledged the seal cut off the link between the chakra of the two. That chakra is the only way Naruto and the Kyubi interact. Naruto would still have stamina because of the way he's conditioned himself, but not as much as with the Kyubi.

Addendum: As you said, after the 5-point seal, Naruto's chakra control was even choppier and worse than before. However, even with that disadvantage, Ebisu, the supposedly Elite Jounin Trainer was amazed at Naruto's progress with the water walking exercise. Doesn't this point to the conclusion that Naruto is naturally gifted at controlling chakra?
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Old 2004-04-17, 15:54   Link #44
Nine Devil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxter
Naruto unleashed a huge amount of regular, blue chakra when fighting Gaara. No help from kyubi there. Even without kyubi, he would have an amount of chakra higher than most "normal" ninjas. Not as huge as it is now, but still more then for example Sasuke (without Cursed seal). He would have been a regular ninja, and as somebody said, I'd guess he'd be about Kiba's level. Lower level than Sasuke and Neji etc, but not THAT much lower.
Well, atleast that's my fifty yen.

you are wrong there mate against Garaa Naruto used 3 times Kyubi's chakra boost. First was the full power Kagebunshin,yes it was blue but that was a mistake of the animators(wanna know why go to the episode 78 thread and ready the last posts.) then when he summoned Gamabunta-sama and at the end the other super boost.
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Old 2004-04-17, 16:38   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Nine Devil
you are wrong there mate against Garaa Naruto used 3 times Kyubi's chakra boost. First was the full power Kagebunshin,yes it was blue but that was a mistake of the animators(wanna know why go to the episode 78 thread and ready the last posts.) then when he summoned Gamabunta-sama and at the end the other super boost.
even when i read the manga i took it as it was naruto charka that he used to do the kage bunshin. there would be no reason for him to say he used up all his charka if he was using kyubi. since his charka was used up it make it easier to summon gumbunta since his training was to use up all his charka then practice summoning.

i do think naruto would be strong but not as strong as he is now. i believe his skills level will be just as high because of how he learns high lvl jutsu easier then weak ones. i took the 2nd part of the exam as the sepration of kyubi and naruto charka so you can see where naruto charka ends and kyubi begins. but it seems like there are alot of people that are still like kyubi this that whater. narutos healing ability to me is the same as garaas sand. its self-protection because of the presence of the demons inside them. like how garaas brother sand the sheild of sand is automatic and will always potect him to a degree (lee showed that high speed attacks that are faster then the sand will make it useless). so even if someone was to disconnect the garaas demon (ya i know its a sand incarnation/priest whatever) i still think he will still have the sheild of sand as protection. so thats like an other protection unlike narutos inner protection. it was shown and told b4 that naruto has a healing factor that activates when ever he is cut, hurt whatever. the more serious the wond the longer it take up to one nights of rest and naruto will be as good as new. when the element seal was placed on naruto and he still had his healing factor i jsut took it as its come someone natural to his body since kyubi was placed in him at birth so there isnt away to stop that from happening, as shown is the element seal.
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Old 2004-04-17, 16:49   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muad'Dib
Well, you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Where did you see a contradiction?
You fail to see why a normal human would be... normal?
and before you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The fact is that we have no idea of the amount of chakra that Naruto would have without the Kyubi, not even a slight thought.
In one instance you said that "we have no idea of the amount of chakra that Naruto would have without the Kyubi", and in the other you said he'd have a "normal amount of chakra" without the Kyubi. I don't think I can paint out the contradiction any clearer.
The only clear thing is that you cut a part of my sentence to try to make a point.
The true quote was
Quote:
Naruto (if he's a normal human and not some kind of reincarnation/clone/whatever) without the Kyubi is a normal ninja, with a normal amount of chakra and a normal chakra's control.
Frankly I really hope that it was just a mistake because if you're reduced to change a quote to defend your arg, it's quite pitiful.

Anyway it's quite clear, If Naruto was a normal human, he would have been a normal ninja but now that he was Kyubified since years, it's too late to know and thus we can't know what he would have been.
Got it now?

Quote:
Stamina isn't just a quality--it's the both the ability to reproduce chakra and the initial amount of chakra.
Absolutely not.
The Stamina has two parts, the physical energy and the spiritual energy.
The physical energy comes from the billions of the cells of the body, the toughness of the body -greatly enhanced by the Kyubi and his healing's ability in the case of Naruto-, and the spiritual energy that comes from training and experiences, it's by mixing this two energy that you release chakra.

And it's exactly here that Naruto sucks, he's inept in creating chakra and even worst when it matters to control the chakra created (but now he must have improved since the training for the Rasengan).
The strong point of Naruto which overcomes these problems is that he has an insane and inhuman stamina rooted into the presence of the Kyubi and that allows him to waste his chakra and stamina.

Quote:
I fail to see how you believe nothin can stop the Kyubi's interaction with Naruto's chakra
No, you fail to understand what the stamina is.
The seal stopped the interaction between the Kyubi and Naruto but it couldn't stop what was already done by this interaction these past 13 years, the seal of Oro was a dam for the 4th seal but it didn't change the body of Naruto which is already changed by the presence of the Kyubi for years, Naruto's huge healing factor continued to function for example.

Quote:
As you said, after the 5-point seal, Naruto's chakra control was even choppier and worse than before. However, even with that disadvantage, Ebisu, the supposedly Elite Jounin Trainer was amazed at Naruto's progress with the water walking exercise. Doesn't this point to the conclusion that Naruto is naturally gifted at controlling chakra?
I don't think so, Ebisu (who's a Special Jounin specialized in teaching as stated in the Special Character book btw, so it's not only 'supposedly') despised Naruto, he thought at him only as a monster not so long ago.
To see Naruto as a proud and good Shinobi of the Leaf working to improve himself and not as the dropout that he thought Naruto was, made him impressed.

This scene showed that Naruto surmount the obstacles by hardwork, not that he's a prodigy at chakra control.
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Old 2004-04-17, 21:40   Link #47
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I agree that Naruto's chakra stamina/control without Kyubi are unknowns. However, I see no reason why he would not be able to learn Rasengan w/o the Kyubi . Sure, it would take longer since he can't practice as much per day, but if he can control chakra well enough now to do it, he'd definitely be able to learn it eventually if he didn't have the wild Kyubi chakra to worry about. And as has been stated by many characters in the manga, only a very talented ninja could ever learn the Rasengan.

To ninedevil, Kakashi stated that Kyubi was 'at the root' of Naruto's stamina. I.e., Kyubi's influence has made Naruto's own chakra stamina greater than it would be if he didn't have Kyubi. This means even when Naruto is using his own chakra and is completely cut off from Kyubi, he still benefits from Kyubi's having influenced his development.
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Old 2004-04-17, 23:25   Link #48
Muad'Dib
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The only clear thing is that you cut a part of my sentence to try to make a point.
The true quote was
Quote:
Naruto (if he's a normal human and not some kind of reincarnation/clone/whatever) without the Kyubi is a normal ninja, with a normal amount of chakra and a normal chakra's control.
Frankly I really hope that it was just a mistake because if you're reduced to change a quote to defend your arg, it's quite pitiful.
How curious. I took out that qualifier because Naruto is not a reincarnation/clone/whatever without the Kyubi. He is a normal human being. I was not trying to be deceptive, but found it to be a painfully pointless point. I'm sorry if it had some consequence to your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Anyway it's quite clear, If Naruto was a normal human, he would have been a normal ninja but now that he was Kyubified since years, it's too late to know and thus we can't know what he would have been.
Got it now?
So, because Naruto's been Kyubified, we don't know if he's a normal human being? Huh? What? Since he's been Kyubified for so long, we don't know if he's a clone/reincarnation/whatever? Is that really your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
If Naruto was a normal human, he would have been a normal ninja but now that he was Kyubified since years, it's too late to know and thus we can't know what he would have been.
Got it now?
Hm, I suppose it is. If Naruto were a normal human being (which he is without the Kyubi), he would have been a normal ninja.

Is there anything that would lead you to believe he's not a normal human being just with a demon tucked inside? You're not one of those who toys with the theory he's the 4th's reincarnation, are you? That would be weird as hell. I'd just love to see the look on Orochimaru's face if his earthly summoning had entirely completed, and out popped Naruto from the 4th's casket.

Are all normal human beings normal ninjas? Must they have normal chakra output? Of course not. Almost all the ninjas in Naruto are normal human beings, with the new notable exception of Gaara, and perhaps Orochimaru and Kisume--yet there are wide variances in chakra control and amount.

Your contradiction is that you state that it is impossible to predict how much chakra Naruto would naturally have without the Kyubi, but then go on to say that, assuming he's a normal human being, he would have a normal chakra output. The two do not go together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The Stamina has two parts, the physical energy and the spiritual energy.
The physical energy comes from the billions of the cells of the body, the toughness of the body -greatly enhanced by the Kyubi and his healing's ability in the case of Naruto-, and the spiritual energy that comes from training and experiences, it's by mixing this two energy that you release chakra.
While what you're saying is generally true, stamina does not equal chakra. Nowhere has this been stated. People with greater chakra can have lower stamina--such as when Lee commented that, though Sasuke could achieve Lee's speed, he didn't have the same stamina. In this way, stamina wasn't even really referring to chakra at all. Again, stamina does not equal chakra. In regards to chakra, stamina probably means the ability to replenish chakra. And in this way, the Kyubi actively replenishes Naruto's chakra through its own power. And if that were cut off... Naruto's stamina would theoretically suffer a tremendous blow--were his own body not naturally suited to great stamina.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
The seal stopped the interaction between the Kyubi and Naruto but it couldn't stop what was already done by this interaction these past 13 years, the seal of Oro was a dam for the 4th seal but it didn't change the body of Naruto which is already changed by the presence of the Kyubi for years, Naruto's huge healing factor continued to function for example.
Kakashi says that the Kyubi is at the root of Naruto's stamina. He didn't say that the Kyubi changed Naruto's body to make it more suitable to stamina. He said it was at the root of Naruto's stamina. Orochimaru's seal, as I understood it, cut that root. Naruto's injury on his hand healing quickly was an oddity that could be explained by his body healing, but also because of Hinata's special healing cream.

I agree that Naruto's stamina would be greatly reduced without the Kyubi and its influence, but I still think he would have excellent stamina because of his hard-working nature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
I don't think so, Ebisu (who's a Special Jounin specialized in teaching as stated in the Special Character book btw, so it's not only 'supposedly') despised Naruto, he thought at him only as a monster not so long ago.
To see Naruto as a proud and good Shinobi of the Leaf working to improve himself and not as the dropout that he thought Naruto was, made him impressed.

This scene showed that Naruto surmount the obstacles by hardwork, not that he's a prodigy at chakra control.
Just reread it, your analysis is correct, but I believe that Naruto's work at the rasengan has shown him to be a prodigy at chakra control.
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Old 2004-04-18, 00:44   Link #49
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Naruto is very good at chakra control now. I think he's proven that by doing the Rasengan which should have taken him a long time to learn. Even Jiraiya and Tsunade was impressed that he was able to learn it so fast.

Now he's able to pull out a 1000+ clones with ease, and who knows what else he's capable of doing. Naruto might have some lazy habits but if he really wants to do something he will learn how to do it. Thats one of the things i like so much about his character. He's not perfect, he's not a genios but he does everything by working hard and prove people wrong.
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Old 2004-04-18, 01:43   Link #50
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First of all, I think this discussion was over as soon as Hunter posted. I saw nothing but truth and objectiveness. So here goes my rampage:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muad'Dib
I took out that qualifier because Naruto is not a reincarnation/clone/whatever without the Kyubi. He is a normal human being.
I think Hunter was implying that Naruto has something "special" about him. Something that only he has, that no one else can have or inherit because they are just different. Same reason why Sasuke and Itachi have sharingan and no one else completely outside of the clan does - Naruto has Kyuubi and no one else does. And by "normal" Hunter isn't referring to a "standard" level of chakra or ability. He is just saying that Naruto wouldn't have turned out as a genius; or even if Naruto did, it would be in a way that no one could reasonably make a prediction of given what we are "taking away" from him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muad'Dib
So, because Naruto's been Kyubified, we don't know if he's a normal human being? Huh? What? Since he's been Kyubified for so long, we don't know if he's a clone/reincarnation/whatever? Is that really your point?
Addressed already pretty much. You know what Hunter means by not considering the current Naruto "normal" or a "human being." What he mean's by extending Naruto not being normal even with Kyuubi removed from him presently, is that Naruto has benefitted from some training with Kyuubi's powers. This change, undoubtably, cannot be reversed. It's as if you got paid 1 million for the past 10 years of your life, someone could stop giving that money to you, but whatever you buy with it and have left of it, won't disappear. It would have still helped you over others obviously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muad'Dib
Your contradiction is that you state that it is impossible to predict how much chakra Naruto would naturally have without the Kyubi, but then go on to say that, assuming he's a normal human being, he would have a normal chakra output. The two do not go together.
I think I explained this already. To reiterate - in general I think Hunter sticks with the fact that you can't predict how much chakra Naruto would have. By normal, it means nothing "special" about it. In general, its unlikely he would have elevated levels of chakra without a reason. Same thing on the flip side - Naruto wouldn't completely suck unless there was some reason for it like he eats too much or is really lazy. It's statistics, there are outliers in the mix where a completely normal person turns out really good or really bad, but generally they will fall in the middle and have near "standard" abilities.

As far as the chakra argument between you two. I won't get into the specifics of how it works, or what it is. But I will say that there is a different in power level of chakra, and the continuity of it. Some people like Neji and Sasuke are able to generate large amounts of chakra and use powerful attacks/explosive moves. At the same time, both characters are very limited in their use of it as noted by limited chidoris, and the fact that Neji just doesn't seem to battle long - and probably is limited in the duration/number of times he can do kaiten. There are other people like the sannin and Sarutobi, who have much more stamina in their chakra. They are kind of a bad example being that their level is so much higher than the other's I've mentioned, but no Genin or Chuunin is shown to have Naruto's stamina. Anyways, you never see these characters running out of chakra, but they also aren't shown to really "explode" in power. They have powerful jutsus, but nothing that isn't controlled or "out of this world." The idea is that Naruto has both of these traits even at his level. Of course the explosiveness in the amounts of chakra Naruto can generate is contributed to Kyuubi. I don't think that can be argued against. But, the stamina part might be a little harder to tell. On the surface and during some obvious moments, when Naruto runs out of his chakra, he falls back on Kyuubi's(this is the typical red vs blue). Other times though, we see Naruto getting "second waves" because he seems to just have a bit more in him to keep him fighting. I personally see this as a combination of Kyuubi lending him powers always, and Naruto having done it so much, it is becoming a "normal" thing for him to have such stamina. Basically, if he didn't have Kyuubi's chakra mixing with his and him growing up like that, those second waves would have not occurred and Naruto would definitely know, or think he had limited chakra. Of course Naruto's determination is also part of his determination whether it is to protect someone or to follow his dream of becoming hokage. He doesn't give up and forces summoning of power. This is why he has such trained stamina, but if he were without Kyuubi's chakra, as I sort of said earlier, it would fail, and Naruto would realize that he was very finiite.

My position is similar or the same as Hunter's. No one can really say what Naruto would be like given the gravity of the changes. The way Naruto is revolves around Kyuubi. If you take that away, everything changes, and we might as well have a different anime where Naruto could be growing up like Kenshin - a hardworking genius right off the bat, or another where he is the biggest loser...and just is. Or maybe he would just be a run-up-the-mill ninja that has a story for no real reason. Who knows? I think the reason why so many people still believe that Naruto would be strong without Kyuubi is because he is the main character. Because he is the center of this anime, there has to be some factor that we believe makes him stronger than the other characters. We'll get over it - given the changes, we dont have "Naruto" as he is presented to us - at all.

The question should really be phrased as "What if there were some other random kid in Naruto? What would he be like?" Can anyone answer that? You would just have to use your imagination and no one could be right or wrong. The only thing you can do is say "he would probably be normal because most people fall in that category...but there he is chance he could be something special - or something not."
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Old 2004-04-18, 11:06   Link #51
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Shadamehr I don't think I ever said that it was impossible for Naruto to learn the Rasengan if he hadn't had the Kyubi, neither I would defend the opposite btw.
It would take more time, and I don't think that he could use such a jutsu so young but yeah I don't think it's impossible, not certain either but not impossible anyway.

Then Muad'Dib, no the ninjas aren't all normal person, actually it's quite the opposite.
The Uchiha aren't normal, neither are the Hyuga, nor Haku, nor Yoroi, nor the Nara, nor the Aburame, etc.
There are normal ninja, Sakura, Iruka, Mizuki, Gai, Kurenai, Kankuro, etc.
Normal doesn't mean weak, it means without abnormal abilities.

My point it that we don't know if Naruto would have had something special on his own, an unusual and natural huge stamina like Neji or Sasuke (who has at 13 years old already about half the amount of Kakashi's chakra) for example.

And that's exactly here that you made a mistake, you think that Naruto would have a great stamina because he's the hardworker type no matter what, I will not discuss about that even if I don't really think that it's an obligation but the fact is that a great stamina, and I mean a very great stamina is about the level of Neji and Sasuke.

How many Kage Bunshin could make Neji or Sasuke while being able to fight? One or two?
To use several jutsu during the same time is incredibly exhausting, The Kage Bunshin isn't forbidden because it's a difficult jutsu to learn (it's a class C jutsu if I remember well like the Kuchiyose) but because it's a very dangerous jutsu that exhausts the chakra at an incredible rate.

The fact that Naruto is able to make 5 clones is already abnormal and I don't speak of his usual use of 50~100 clones.

EbonySeraphim and Shadamehr seem to have understand my point so I will not re-re explain what they said so just some things :

Quote:
While what you're saying is generally true, stamina does not equal chakra.
That's exactly what I said, re-read my post : The chakra is obtained by mixing the component of the stamina.

Quote:
People with greater chakra can have lower stamina
Once again that's what I said, a good example of that if the fight Neji vs. Naruto.
Neji's not even close to the amount of stamina of Naruto but he's a genious when it matters of chakra control and created chakra from his stamina, that's why he could fight against Naruto in a Kyubi's state almost equally.

Quote:
such as when Lee commented that, though Sasuke could achieve Lee's speed, he didn't have the same stamina.
No this is wrong, Lee never say that, he said that this kind of speed used a lot of stamina, Sasuke hadn't the stamina necessary before the train of Kakashi.
And Kakashi trained him in Taijutsu exactly for this purpose, to rise his stamina.

Quote:
In regards to chakra, stamina probably means the ability to replenish chakra. And in this way, the Kyubi actively replenishes Naruto's chakra through its own power.
No, once again re-read my post (or re-read the explanations in the manga).
First there is the stamina composed of physical and spiritual energy, then you must create chakra from the stamina (by mixing the two elements) and then you must use efficiently the chakra created to do a jutsu.


Oh and Crimson except that I don't think that Naruto can create 1000+ clones with ease but only when he's in a particular state of mind, I mostly agree with you about a post about Naruto!
Craaaaaaazy!
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Old 2004-04-18, 14:20   Link #52
Shino~
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I think Naruto is a genius in his own way, if he were just charge with everything hes got, I dont think hed lasted this far. Anyways I think the fourth is naruto, cause I dont understand how the fourth could seal it into someone else, whereas the 3rd had to seal the 1st and 2nd and the arms of orochimaru inside his body?????? Dunno if it makes sense but, all in all I dont think there will be a naruto without the kyuubi
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:45   Link #53
roddylaves
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Question A complaint about Naruto...

Does it bother anyone else that while Naruto's power is awesome, it isn't really his? Without Kyuubi, he'd be washed up, whereas Sasuke or Neji are at his level with their own power (though I'd say Sasuke is above because of Orichimaru's "contribution"). Without going into spoilers, the first few minutes of episode 001-002 highlight this.

Just wondering what you all think.
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:53   Link #54
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Both Neji and Sasuke recieve a fair chunk of their power from their genetics, something given to them that they didn't have to earn through hard work. I suppose it's that whole "Some folks have to work for what others just have" thing.

Doesn't really bother me all that much, some folks are just born lucky.
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:53   Link #55
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Umm it's been said that Naruto naturally has a very large chakra pool. Larger than anyones in the village. He just lacks some of the brains to show off his OWN power as a good shinobi.
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Old 2007-02-22, 11:54   Link #56
Luminion Lancer
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Location is all relative.
...

-This has been discussed a million times already and the point still remains. You cannot argue that Naruto is a "washed-up" ninja without the Kyuubi because that "Kyuubi-less" Naruto doesn't exist at all. This thread serves no new purpose...
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Old 2007-02-22, 12:03   Link #57
Blackstream
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Without Kyuubi Naruto would have grown up normally and probably would be a completely different individual. If Kyuubi could somehow be taken out of Naruto without killing him, I'm pretty sure there's an unwritten law of Shonen anime says that Naruto would somehow adapt and overcome.

Also like other people pointed out, the anime is rife with individuals that have tons of advantages they didn't earn. Imagine Neji without his eyes, Gaara without his sand control powers, and so on.
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Old 2007-02-22, 20:53   Link #58
Kage_Spyke
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Last time i checked...my own little world
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Where did you see a contradiction?
You fail to see why a normal human would be... normal?
.
the contradiction is that there is no normal ninja, okay even wihout the Kyuubis chakra narutos chakra is greater then kakashis i think thats saying something and with the kyuubis chakra it is at a minimum of 10 times greater then kakashi. which means that even if he didnt have the kyuubi inside of him he would be a dman good ninja.
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Old 2007-02-22, 23:19   Link #59
konkoruRules
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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well since he gets nost of his power from the kuubi NO
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Old 2007-02-22, 23:46   Link #60
Ichimaru
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Join Date: Dec 2005
naruto without the kyubi in the first place, wouldve just been like any other startup ninja = a project or busts

he wouldnt have the high chakra that he has now, but stamina can always be gain by good endurance training, and chakra can only increase and purified as you get older, more like monks meditating, yoga etc where they reach enlightenment and been to nirvana....

just think of tenten with rock lee speed = naruto without kyubi
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