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Old 2007-02-23, 05:14   Link #61
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Kage_Spyke View Post
the contradiction is that there is no normal ninja, okay even wihout the Kyuubis chakra narutos chakra is greater then kakashis i think thats saying something and with the kyuubis chakra it is at a minimum of 10 times greater then kakashi. which means that even if he didnt have the kyuubi inside of him he would be a dman good ninja.
There are many regular ninja, like I said : Sakura, Iruka, Mizuki, Gai, Kurenai, Kankuro, Sarutobi, etc.
Normal doesn't mean weak, it means without abnormal abilities.

Naruto's chakra is greater than Kakashi because of the presence of the Kyubi to begin with, we do not know what Naruto would be without it. Both physically and mentally.
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Old 2007-02-23, 21:10   Link #62
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naruto is useless without the kyuubi's chakra to begin with. he was just a lucky orphan the 4th hokage sealed the monster within, though the luck didn't begin till he was slowly accepted by the ppl around him and the village..

naruto's strength comes from his character, moulded from years of isolation and a yearning to be fit in and be recognized. his determination, peseverance and strong faith in friendship made people view him differently for he stands up strong and proud against the principles he believe in. and he is hardworking too. he has no real talent save for his character which is to support people all around him, with his tragic background, hence the lead of the anime.

since his parentage is still quite a mystery, we often conclude that he has no powers passed from his family's lifeline (till if it is revealed someday) so all that he can do right now, is to keep on training and control the kyuubi's powers as his own and become his own strength, just as gaara did.

*hey, straying off topic, besides gaara, naruto, and the kids with the one-tail, 2-tail, ...etc. monsters in their bodies, who else in Naruto 'harbours' a monster within them? ok, some artist girl in one of the fillers, anymore??
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Old 2007-02-24, 00:09   Link #63
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i dont really care naruto is the main character of the story, so im guessing even without kyubi he would be the hokage.
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Old 2007-02-24, 00:52   Link #64
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Without kyubi, Naruto would be nothing. The beginning of the series (when he did not realize kyubi's power) shows how weak Naruto was compared to other academy students. Over time he learned how to tap into kyubi's chakra.
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Old 2007-02-24, 01:13   Link #65
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y does every1 care lol this is da gayest conversation i mean weather he would hav got the kyuubi or w/e we dont choose masashi kishimoto is the one that chooses and th story would suck without the kyuubi inside naruto

honestly id like love havin the kyuubi inside me and its so stupid how before the time skip epiosdes of naruto he like never tries to use the power of the kyuubi except when fightin against negi

sorry the comment above was posted in the wrong conversation sorry

Last edited by Hunter; 2007-02-24 at 07:41. Reason: don't double post
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Old 2007-02-24, 12:00   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
There are many regular ninja, like I said : Sakura, Iruka, Mizuki, Gai, Kurenai, Kankuro, Sarutobi, etc.
Normal doesn't mean weak, it means without abnormal abilities.

Naruto's chakra is greater than Kakashi because of the presence of the Kyubi to begin with, we do not know what Naruto would be without it. Both physically and mentally.
first off you are contradicting yourself again your telling me tha sarutobi is a normal ninja? He's a genius hokage who knew all the techiques in konohagakura

Sakura is now a ninja who could surpass the Godaime, with medial ninjutsu and SUperhuman Strength

Kurenai is a suberb ninja in the art of genjutsu

Mizuki learned many techiwues in his time imprisoned that no other ninja could do

Kankuro is a puppet master, who is quite capable. Just from being a puppet user his chakra control must almost be perfect and thats a difficult task plus he needs to be smarter then his opponent for the puppet to be used correctly

Gai is a ninja who can open up the Chakra gates and deliver devasting punches that can shatter bones and even walls

Ill give you Iruka, he sucks
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Old 2007-02-24, 13:17   Link #67
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It seems you have some difficulty reading my post : normal doesn't mean weak. That means they are regular human who can't see chakra, have ~360° vision, grow bones, naturally manipulate sand, have more chakra than hundreds of people put together, merge with people, etc.
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Old 2007-02-24, 17:56   Link #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thFonon View Post
Without kyubi, Naruto would be nothing. The beginning of the series (when he did not realize kyubi's power) shows how weak Naruto was compared to other academy students. Over time he learned how to tap into kyubi's chakra.
That argument doesn't quite hold because part of his weakness was actually caused by the Kyubi at first; his chakra was unstable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freaknjeans28 View Post
y does every1 care lol this is da gayest conversation
Because it's fun to speculate on things like this. Although admittedly, as some have pointed out, it's pretty much impossible to predict how Naruto would have turrned out if not for the Kyubi.

I'd say he would still have become pretty capable at the least. His initial development wouldn't be stunted as it was now and his circumstances while growing up would have been better. Even without tapping into the Kyubi powers he has shown he has potential. His style probably would have become quite different though.
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Old 2007-02-24, 21:34   Link #69
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hunter makes respectable post.

I geuss ill confirm what he is saying naruto without kyuubi means naruto wont be able to use kage bunshin like he is used to now. Thus naruto would run out of options very fast in fights like all the other ninja's around him.

Possitive points kyuubi

Extra chakra
faster healing rate
more stamina

negative points

bad chakra control
me hating you cuz you rely on a cheap way of overpoweredness source

So taking away the possitive features will enable and bring back the negative features too good. Now the question is do these features that you can add who dissapear make that naruto would be the same i think any child can understand
that naruto would be pure sh*it without kyuubi and would have died without a long time ago (that is if the anime could be seen as a creditable anime (in the way that deadly-no-cure-poison means NO CURE) which it isnt at this point) but it a shounen anime so who cares.

Kakashi once's stated sasuke has large chakra amount naruto far surpasses him in that cause of kyuubi chakra mengling into his system.

Why non of the other ninja's use kage bunshin or even sasuke while he undoubtfully has copyed it by now in the mange is cuz of this if naruto chakra source is 100 and he does kage each bunshin has 50 so if bushin x +1 gets whooped naruto lost 50% chakra in 1 bushin thus naruto's new chakra amount is 50. If he naruto didnt have kyuubi he would stay near 50 chakra like all other ninja's

Fact is naruto with kyuubi makes that in a fight he allmost instantly recharges his new chakra FROM kyuubi not from himself. (now i know why naruto allways talks too much in fights cuz he is waiting for his chakra to recharge )

if naruto chakra source is gone he is just a standard iruka. Or Could be a great ninja who knows fact still remains that he wont be able to have alot of chakra like sasuke or any great feature(bloodlines, demon inside moi) and the chance of him being able to reach hokage lvl is low and would be in kishimoto imagination or your own

Furthermore i want to say there is only 1 entity that can say whether on not naruto is strong or not and that is kyuubi. kyuubi said,

YoU aRe WEaK!!! fact so dont go say naruto is strong kyuubi is strong and no fighting naruto doe snot mean fighting kuubi per se. oro sealed kyuubi away. Thus saying how can you defeat kyuubi isnt neccessary the case.

now kyuubi saying your weak meaning naruto was crap without kyuubi since all the fights we seen wasting bunshins depleting kyuubi chakra. Kyuubi has to litterly take over naruto to end the fight in some situations. why i say he is pure crap and weak is because if naruto was talented as a ninja he would be able to anticipate and think make better use of his tactic and fights which he hasnt and still cant. where naruto can be hit from 1 enemy 100 times like against neji other ninja's need to be faster and smarter in what they do to survive i would have a different view on naruto if he was able to fight without being hit and half bleeding to death etc.

where naruto and sakura now are able to fight kakashi on even lvl sasuke already was able in episode 4 as kakashi said himself. so saying naruto is now a great ninja is actually a flawed statement. when sasuke/neji/itachi is for a dillema they succeed in the 1st try. naruto on the other hand needs 100 try's cuz he sorry to say this a moron cuz he doesnt have many brain cells. and PLs dont go flame me over naruto's IQ his IQ is low.

What i believe naruto should do is make a shrine for the demon Kyuubi and worship it
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Old 2007-02-25, 09:03   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Syndicate View Post
hunter makes respectable post.

I geuss ill confirm what he is saying naruto without kyuubi means naruto wont be able to use kage bunshin like he is used to now. Thus naruto would run out of options very fast in fights like all the other ninja's around him.
[...]
No that means this unknown Naruto would have a completely different fighting style with completely different jutsu.
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Old 2007-02-25, 12:18   Link #71
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No that means this unknown Naruto would have a completely different fighting style with completely different jutsu.
I dont understand what you mean with NO.

If naruto cant recharge chakra cuz of kyuubi that means he isnt able to do kage bunshin like he is used to now. what part of that do you deny. That his fighting style will be different i agree with since his allways same technique kage bunshin falls away what he can or cant use is for everyone's own imagination. but from what i have seen is that he isnt the smart type in fighting when it comes to surprising your enemy in the 1st try. Naruto is in the show for jokes and comedy for me instead of being a socalled serious tensai countering every moves thats more sasuke neji like.
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Old 2007-02-25, 13:03   Link #72
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I dont understand what you mean with NO.

If naruto cant recharge chakra cuz of kyuubi that means he isnt able to do kage bunshin like he is used to now. what part of that do you deny. That his fighting style will be different i agree with since his allways same technique kage bunshin falls away what he can or cant use is for everyone's own imagination. but from what i have seen is that he isnt the smart type in fighting when it comes to surprising your enemy in the 1st try. Naruto is in the show for jokes and comedy for me instead of being a socalled serious tensai countering every moves thats more sasuke neji like.
Hmmm....if it wasn't for Kyubbi Naruto would have had less stamina but more chakara, if it wasn't for the nine tails naruto could make perhaps even more kage bunshins with his own chakara but wouldn't have lasted as long in some battles like against kiba where he got continually hit but still Naruto is a great ninja, infact the Kyubbi weakens him, why put the kyubbi in a good ninja, you need it in an extroidinary ninja, are we saying the 4th is an idiot or something, Naruto is definetly a great ninja with the kyubbi or without + people like neji and sasuke piss me off because they think they are so great with their bloodlines and people like tenten and sakura saying how great they are all the time...
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Old 2007-02-25, 14:32   Link #73
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Hmmm....if it wasn't for Kyubbi Naruto would have had less stamina but more chakara, if it wasn't for the nine tails naruto could make perhaps even more kage bunshins with his own chakara but wouldn't have lasted as long in some battles like against kiba where he got continually hit but still Naruto is a great ninja, infact the Kyubbi weakens him, why put the kyubbi in a good ninja, you need it in an extroidinary ninja, are we saying the 4th is an idiot or something, Naruto is definetly a great ninja with the kyubbi or without + people like neji and sasuke piss me off because they think they are so great with their bloodlines and people like tenten and sakura saying how great they are all the time...
your saying something completely new to me???

take away kyuubi and naruto's chakra will increase. thats some funny shit cuz i allways seen him get a bigger chakra amount when releasing kyuubi's chakra.

your statements are so flawed i dont know where to begin

-without kyuubi(infinite chakra source) he MAYBE(you say) is able to make more KB????????

- kyuubi weakens him?????

- 4th = idiot ROFL

- naruto is great ninja (without any arguments to back your statement up)

- neji and sasuke bla bla even though both of them say or rather think they are great i think naruto calls himself the great naruto too its a shounen kid you wanna hate naruto now too?

- tenten and sakura saying they are great your post is funny man

i dont know how old you are but i geuss you were making a joke so ill just leave it at that cuz the creditability of your psot about proving naruto is something is plain crap.

I cant understand how you can call someone a great ninja when you dont even know what a ninja is. their assassins and murders that dont have the privelege to satisfy their own needs. naruto isnt able to detect enemy's who are spying on him but you call him great

naruto isnt able to listen to tsunade without being a 6year old dweep

naruto isnt able to lead a genin squad to a specific place instead bring them in danger.

a good ninja learns the basics first them talk to me about what/who you think great.

sayanora
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Old 2007-02-26, 02:59   Link #74
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If Naruto didn't have the Kitsune, Sasuke would be the main character...and that would just plain suck. *saaaaaad*

Seriously, though...debating what Naruto would be like is like debating what Bach would be like if he had lost all of his limbs in a tragic bass fishing accident...it's pointless.
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Old 2007-02-26, 10:52   Link #75
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If Naruto didn't have the Kitsune, Sasuke would be the main character...and that would just plain suck. *saaaaaad*

Seriously, though...debating what Naruto would be like is like debating what Bach would be like if he had lost all of his limbs in a tragic bass fishing accident...it's pointless.
we never knwow aht the story would be like but for me the story is only interesting because of characters liek orochimaru itachi sasuke. with naruto i allready know what he is gonna say and how the story will develop. this is plain a personal thought on what one likes.

I allways say this which is my own made up sayings

"a Story can only be as Good as how BAD the bad guy in the story is."

knowing this when oro sasuke become more powerful stronger the bridge to overcome is thus more and easier tense for readers to read naruto for me doenst add anything that makes it interesting to watch him anymore ista shounen kids story with nicely added features im not that suprised/interested by some of the stuff kids would be.

now older brother killing of his family and village to gain power and then leaving his only brother alive for me is interesting cuz its mysterious cause. leaving th younger brother with rage psychological stress and revenge.

thats my opinion
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Old 2007-02-26, 13:00   Link #76
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I dont understand what you mean with NO.

If naruto cant recharge chakra cuz of kyuubi that means he isnt able to do kage bunshin like he is used to now. what part of that do you deny. That his fighting style will be different i agree with since his allways same technique kage bunshin falls away what he can or cant use is for everyone's own imagination. but from what i have seen is that he isnt the smart type in fighting when it comes to surprising your enemy in the 1st try. Naruto is in the show for jokes and comedy for me instead of being a socalled serious tensai countering every moves thats more sasuke neji like.
I mean the opposite of yes.
Your argument is basically : Naruto uses waves of KB to fight and he needs gigantic amount of chakra for that, hence why if he hadn't insane stamina he would run out of option pretty fast.

This arguement has an important flaw : if Naruto didn't have the Kyubi to begin with he would fight completely differently. In fact he wouldn't have stolen the Forbidden scroll and wouldn't even know how to do a Kage Bunshin.
Hence he would fight differently with different abilities that wouldn't cost as much chakra and he wouldn't run out of option pretty fast.
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Old 2007-02-26, 14:38   Link #77
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I mean the opposite of yes.
Your argument is basically : Naruto uses waves of KB to fight and he needs gigantic amount of chakra for that, hence why if he hadn't insane stamina he would run out of option pretty fast.

This arguement has an important flaw : if Naruto didn't have the Kyubi to begin with he would fight completely differently. In fact he wouldn't have stolen the Forbidden scroll and wouldn't even know how to do a Kage Bunshin.
Hence he would fight differently with different abilities that wouldn't cost as much chakra and he wouldn't run out of option pretty fast.
ok if you want to take that possibility in account you should have pointed in the start of this thread how he wouldnt have had kage bunshin. Also the question is not whether or not he would have gotten the scroll or not but how he is without kyuubi in/with his current states(character way of how he is!).

your NO would apply if the question was

"WHAT if kyuubi wasnt in naruto what would his life be like and what would naruto be like" then your NO applies at this moment with this topic. I take naruto as he is and then take the kyuubi out of the equation which is what the question asks with the current situations or we wont be able to apply the comparison of with and without cus the conditions are different. I tak it as the topi says for that matter

Last edited by Syndicate; 2007-02-26 at 14:51.
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Old 2007-02-26, 14:53   Link #78
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i see that the topic starter made indeed stated what your saying. so your argument is right. i didnt read the 1st simply posted in last page

so i take my post above this one back.

your qoute is a difficult to know what you meant but i get your point now that you elaborated it further. from your last post i understand that you mean that if he didnt have kyuubi he would have lasted longer in fights since you deny what im saying that he wont last longer.

that would mean that kyuubi didnt add any advantage to him when its inside him. which i strongly disagree since we know thw proven facts how he been able to come out of these situations.

The reason why i took my way or reasoing that includes KB is because your able to have a better comparison. Your reasoing is a possibility. Its also possible that he wont have any different fighting style. that he fights the same way as he does with his KB only instead of the KB behing hit naruto himslef is hit 1st try.

This proves nothing because their assumptions based on possible scenarios. same as that you can say or not say his fighting style can or cannot be different. where as what i said with same circuimstances we can know the outcome by taking away 1 part(kyuubi) instead of too many variables. i dont really like to speculate too much through assumption because it depend on what you think is mostlikely to happen

Last edited by Syndicate; 2007-02-26 at 15:09.
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Old 2007-02-26, 14:57   Link #79
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The first post of this thread states quite clearly that the discussion is about what Naruto would have become without the Kyubi.
Let's quote te beginning :
Quote:
We've seen a lot of threads that dicuss whether Naruto is a genius or not. I would like to pose the question, how do you think Naruto would have progressed as a ninja had he not been sealed with the kyuubi?
Meaning a different chilhood, different physical abilities, to an extent a different personallity and thus different fighting style and jutsu.
I also mentioned these points (namely different jutsu and fighting style) in the post you quoted so you already knew what the debat was about.
Quite this bad habit to quote without paying much attention to what you're reading.
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Old 2007-02-26, 15:02   Link #80
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Personally I don´t think it was just coincidence that the 4th wanted the kyuubi to be sealed within Naruto and also, he wanted Naruto to be seen as a hero.

So I´m going to say that Naruto without Kyuubi would equal Naruto with the 4th as his personal coach.
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