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Old 2013-10-13, 12:33   Link #341
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
You win when you can end any 1v1 by running away or heal up and cast whatever spells and continue to fight the opponent. The spell has short ct so you can cast it whenever you are going to lose. Is he really a peashooter? He showed off his offensive spells when fighting the mobs didn't he? He also have access to some non damage trap spells doesn't he?
If you mean Thorn Bind Hostage, depiction says it's activated by teammate attacks, implying probably not your own.
As for "he can put them to sleep and run", well... The advantage of that depends on recast.
Existing MMOs have similar strategies. Classic "Vanish, Sap, and bandage" for example.

If you mean run away in an open field, ever heard of "bubble hearth"?

As for pea-shooter, yes, yes he is. And the mobs he shot with were 60 levels below his.
Enchanter is the lowest damaging class of all the 12. Heck, I believe even the Cleric can bash the head of a monster stronger than his fuzz.
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Old 2013-10-13, 12:34   Link #342
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FateAnomaly View Post
You win when you can end any 1v1 by running away or heal up and cast whatever spells and continue to fight the opponent. The spell has short ct so you can cast it whenever you are going to lose. Is he really a peashooter? He showed off his offensive spells when fighting the mobs didn't he? He also have access to some non damage trap spells doesn't he?
If Elder Tale works like your regular MMORPG, casting a CC spell doesn't mean it will last and/or not going to be interrupted, especially if it was already applied once. If a dot is already in place, the target will break free from the CC spell quite easily.

Also, the first episode implies that nightmare sphere serve as a gravity AOE that allows Naotsugu and Akatsuki to deal with the mobs en masse. He couldn't dispatch that plant monster alone either. Thus far, Shiroe didn't have an impressive offensive spell arsenal at all.
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Old 2013-10-13, 12:35   Link #343
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
And suffice to say, being high lvl player doesn't mean they are good players at all. In usual MMORPG, it isn't rare to see idiots who don't understand basic mechanics even level capped, while others outright buy accounts with real money, ultimately lacking experience and comprehension of the game.
For example, back in WoW Vanilla, I was completely baffled with PUG Molten Core raid that several mages didn't know they could dispel curses despite they are level capped and taking part of a damn high end raid. That's not even another class' skill but their very own, and I can bring hundred examples of that with WoW. I'm sure Aohige could wipe the floor with me by bringing EQ in the mix.

Giving explanations that early without breaking too much the flow of the fights is actually a good idea, especially done early so future fights won't be hindered. It also give a good emphasis on Shiroe class purpose and even more insight of his playstyle in general.

Bear in mind that not everyone has tried a MMORPG at all, so some skills especially in PVP aren't exactly that obvious to the general audience. So explaining that astral bind doesn't last long is fine, because not everyone understand the concept that MMORPG game alters some skills property for PVP (such like diminishing return for crowd control/stun skills etc).
Ah yes, that reminds me of when some random person tried to PK me using the same class as I was. I had a skill on which when hit, you reflect the melee damage you've received by over 100% (depending on skill lvl) which is CLEARLY VISIBLE for everyone to see. This guy doesn't care, he tries to PK me like 3 times in a row and I slaughter him effortlessly. Remember, this guy is using the same class as me!

Hmm I guess the point I'm trying to make regarding all the explanations is that they're too long. I understand some of these explanations are for the people that are not familiar with RPG or MMO type skills, but for me, it felt over done which did break the flow of the battle too much.

Random note: Guildwars is an extremely good example on how a disabling/shut down skill is invaluable during PVP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
They're not level capped = noobs.
Games like this, the real game doesn't even start until you level cap.

And I doubt they'd ever had an enchanter cast these skills on their real body.

Also, they're perfectly right about "Electric Fuzz" being useless in that situation. ..... IF THIS WAS A GAME that is.
The fact that it's robbing them of "night visual" with its brightness isn't something that was an issue in the game, nor was it even intended.
Shiroe ADAPTED its usage to this real-life situation. You can't really fault them for not understanding what it's for.
You don't even need to think "what if this was real life" to understand that being blind (whether it be hit reduction or visual sight) can be pretty darn dangerous if put into a tight situation. If it was during PvE then you couldn't see the mobs running around, therefore you would aggro more and get your ass kicked. But for PVP, you loose sight of your allies in the back, therefore you won't know if they're getting attacked (unless you watch the party window), and you wouldn't know if your enemies in the distance are approaching. Of course, these PK'ers were so overconfident that they thought nothing of it, so yeah, they're noobs.
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Old 2013-10-13, 12:50   Link #344
aohige
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About the Enchanter's low DPS...

This will likely never come up in anime as it doesn't even in the novel, but there is a really whacked "Sprinkler" build found by combination of skill builds and specific gear, which makes the Enchanter spray little light bolts at insanely fast cast speed, destroying enemies with barrage of pew pew. 42 pews a min.

Players apparently joked how it make the Enchanter playing a different type of game - shoot 'em ups. DPS is still not as good other mages, but the option is there.
Obviously you have to dedicate your entire skill set for this, and not be useful any other ways, so hardly anyone plays them. It's a joke build.
(Throwing away all the advantage of an Enchanter to make a second-grade mage. But hey, the DPS is higher than normal!)
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Old 2013-10-13, 13:28   Link #345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
You don't even need to think "what if this was real life" to understand that being blind (whether it be hit reduction or visual sight) can be pretty darn dangerous if put into a tight situation. If it was during PvE then you couldn't see the mobs running around, therefore you would aggro more and get your ass kicked. But for PVP, you loose sight of your allies in the back, therefore you won't know if they're getting attacked (unless you watch the party window), and you wouldn't know if your enemies in the distance are approaching. Of course, these PK'ers were so overconfident that they thought nothing of it, so yeah, they're noobs.
You're still thinking wrong. We keep trying to tell you folks, and you're forgetting. This was a keyboard and mouse game. Electric Fuzz providing a bright light that ruined your ability to see in the dark is an effect that did not exist in the regular game, because your real eyes were looking at the game through a computer screen. The only thing a player would have been concerned about then is if the spell did damage to them, or conveyed some sort of status effect, and Electric Fuzz did neither. These PKs were still thinking in those terms: the terms of the original game that they used to play, rather than realizing things had changed, like them now having eyes in the game that could be blinded by in-game lights, and so on.

Quote:
Hmm I guess the point I'm trying to make regarding all the explanations is that they're too long. I understand some of these explanations are for the people that are not familiar with RPG or MMO type skills, but for me, it felt over done which did break the flow of the battle too much.
Didn't bother me at all. I liked it.
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Old 2013-10-13, 13:32   Link #346
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Yes, the graphical effect existed, just that, it didn't matter since you're playing in a third-person perspective video game.
Perspective is one thing, but also, the game didn't have to follow the rules of optical physics.
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Old 2013-10-13, 13:33   Link #347
Random Wanderer
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Well, the graphical effect existed, just that, it didn't matter since you're playing in a third-person perspective video game.
That's what I was saying, yes. It only affected them here because it was next to their actual eyes.
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Old 2013-10-13, 14:16   Link #348
Snuffle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
You're still thinking wrong. We keep trying to tell you folks, and you're forgetting. This was a keyboard and mouse game. Electric Fuzz providing a bright light that ruined your ability to see in the dark is an effect that did not exist in the regular game, because your real eyes were looking at the game through a computer screen. The only thing a player would have been concerned about then is if the spell did damage to them, or conveyed some sort of status effect, and Electric Fuzz did neither. These PKs were still thinking in those terms: the terms of the original game that they used to play, rather than realizing things had changed, like them now having eyes in the game that could be blinded by in-game lights, and so on.
First of all, I haven't read all the pages so I don't apply to these "folks" you speak of. Now I did not know Electric Fuzz did not inflict any status ailment, was it even mentioned anywhere on what this skill actually does? I can't recall such a scene, could've been episode 1, will need to check... But anyways, it's being used like looking at a bright light and trying to see in the dark right after, gotcha, now I correctly understand Akatsuki's comment.
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Old 2013-10-13, 14:21   Link #349
aohige
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Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post
First of all, I haven't read all the pages so I don't apply to these "folks" you speak of. Now I did not know Electric Fuzz did not inflict any status ailment, was it even mentioned anywhere on what this skill actually does? I can't recall such a scene, could've been episode 1, will need to check... But anyways, it's being used like looking at a bright light and trying to see in the dark right after, gotcha, now I correctly understand Akatsuki's comment.
Electrical Fuzz is actually a weak, but long-lasting DoT.
It puts a debuff that slowly ticks away damage.

Graphically, it puts a spinning electric orb around the target opponent.
Otherwise, it has no other effect.

The longer you "charge" the higher damage it does.
The way Shiroe used in this episode, he shot them out with no charging time, thus it did minimum damage. (because damage wasn't his intention)
The bandits probably didn't know this either.

Keep in mind, the other advantage to this skill is that it makes the target stand out like a light bulb, and it makes fuzz noise every tick.
You can't hide in the woods/shadows with this light floating around you, and it's also useful to single out in a large scale battle.
Shiroe is very adaptive, and the keen observation to find out what's "different" in this world is his biggest strength through out the series.
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Old 2013-10-13, 14:27   Link #350
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Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post

Didn't bother me at all. I liked it.
Doesn't bother me as well.

I understand that animators aren't hardcore gamers so I don't mind them overlooking some minor techincal detals, it's not easy to blend game related elements into context of anime episodes. I can see that they've tried, and I'm quite impress the results doesn't seem half bad overall.

However if I were to discuss some nitpicks, I don't like how the PKers doesn't seem to use any skills at all let alone range and AoE ones like the MCs did which made them came of like a buncha total amateurs. Well, it's the first PvP battle so I guess it's not supposed to be that intense,

There is also another minor issue with how Akatsuki, an assassin, can one shot a (probabily lv 80s) sword wielding PKer guy as if he's a low level monsters. I was expecting some successive combo moves from her this time, but I guess one shot adds more of a dramatic effect anime wise.
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Old 2013-10-13, 14:36   Link #351
Snuffle
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Originally Posted by teja208 View Post
There is also another minor issue with how Akatsuki, an assassin, can one shot a (probabily lv 80s) sword wielding PKer guy as if he's a low level monsters. I was expecting some successive combo moves from her this time, but I guess one shot adds more of a dramatic effect anime wise.
I don't see that as a problem, that guy most likely got beat up by the guardian dude a bit. Besides, not only was it a back attack (which probably causes more damage), I assume assassins are suppose to have extremely high attack power to counter balance their squishiness.
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Old 2013-10-13, 14:42   Link #352
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As far as I know, Assassinate is like the single biggest damaging melee attack.
Best move to finish off an already hurt opponent.
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:08   Link #353
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Question: how come food has no taste because nobody programmed it, but Electrical Fuzz destroy night vision despite nobody programming it?
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:15   Link #354
aohige
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Question: how come food has no taste because nobody programmed it, but Electrical Fuzz destroy night vision despite nobody programming it?
Easy answer.
The light being blinding has nothing to do with Electrical Fuzz, that's a "light become real physics" issue. EF always was a ball of light.

Same goes for food, but answering that would be major spoiler.
It's not that there's no taste in the world, you lick iron I'm pretty sure it taste like iron.
"food" doesn't have taste is entirely another issue.
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:22   Link #355
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Question: how come food has no taste because nobody programmed it, but Electrical Fuzz destroy night vision despite nobody programming it?
Because as players, they (and most of us probably, with a few exceptions) are used to playing in a third-person perspective while in games. It lets us have greater awareness of the surrounding area and not stand on fire (with exceptions of course).

But now everyone is stuck on a first-person perspective, and thus their perception changes as well. Before, an electric blob floating around you wouldn't be that noticeable since you have a third-person perspective around your character; once your in first-person, it becomes a rather big annoyance. Unless of course, their game was always through a 1st-person perspective.
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:30   Link #356
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I'm guessing because they're all vendor food. And when people figure this out the role of all the various subclasses become even more important as a result. I got this feeling from where Shiroe's map become infinitely more useful now than before.

To novel readers, please don't deny or admit my speculation above. It takes away the fun of speculating

@LystAP: that's...not exactly what he's asking though
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:46   Link #357
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So if we go by FFXI than main characters = Red mage? (75 cap days)

though I can't think of his class in WoW terms.... mix of warlock and druid?
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Old 2013-10-13, 15:58   Link #358
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Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
So if we go by FFXI than main characters = Red mage? (75 cap days)

though I can't think of his class in WoW terms.... mix of warlock and druid?
Don't mention WoW, there are no support classes.
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Old 2013-10-13, 16:35   Link #359
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Are there English translations for this or are they in a different language?
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Old 2013-10-13, 19:39   Link #360
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Our little assasin-chan...
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