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Old 2013-10-30, 17:03   Link #1001
Breimoon
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witch and warlock should be closer to the european standard of wizard.
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Old 2013-10-30, 17:15   Link #1002
TnAdct1
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Since no one mentioned it yet: Sentai Filmworks has picked up the show.

NOTE: The summary was written before the person who wrote it watched episode 2. :P
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Old 2013-10-30, 17:28   Link #1003
Dawnstorm
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Originally Posted by ZabiLegacy View Post
Can you even tell me where they are on this?

http://filmcrithulk.files.wordpress....oesjourney.jpg
Somewhere near the threshhold, helper, mentor stage, I'd say.

Also: if you can't apply the heroes journey to a story, that's a stryke against the "heroes journey", not against the story. It's supposed to be an analytical tool after all. (Don't like it myself - too universalist.)
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Old 2013-10-30, 17:32   Link #1004
ZabiLegacy
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If so then where was the call to action phase? Where the resisting the call?

This is off topic so please PM if you wish to do so, but can you PM some other examples of stories that don't follow the heroes journey and do so without detriment?
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Old 2013-10-30, 18:20   Link #1005
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If so then where was the call to action phase? Where the resisting the call?
Well, on the macro level, we have the transformation of the world/being sucked into the game. It's sort of an irresistable call to advanture, so naturally there's no resistance, there.

But on the presonal level, the anime makes a big deal about Shiroe's reluctance to join a guild, even though his class is a support class - he's not into it for soloing. So what's going on?

On that call, his refusal to join a guild is the backdrop for his story: then, a guild asks for his help. They don't ask him to go and fetch the girl; instead they ask him to stand in and lead the guild in their absence.

So in a sense, Shiroe goes on an adventure because he refuses: the macro and micro level work at cross purposes. From a heroe's journey point of view, I'd think that's quite clever.

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This is off topic so please PM if you wish to do so, but can you PM some other examples of stories that don't follow the heroes journey and do so without detriment?
That's... complicated. If I have time (and if you're interested), I'll send you a PM explaining why. My main problem is that I intuitively reject the "heroe's journey" as an analytic model, even before I can think about things like "detriment".

For example: We're talking about Log Horizon, now. You seem to see some flaws, and you relate them to the "heroes journey". Me? I don't think the "heroe's journey" is all that useful, but I my hunch is that it's actually fairly easy to use it to analyse the show. I didn't properly think it through, I admit, but what does that say?

I could read up on the heroe's journey to refresh my memory, and then I could write a detailled analysis of Log Horizon with that in mind. And then you can disagree with my interpretation of it (or agree, maybe, who knows). But what does any of this have to do with whether the story is flawed or not?

My main problem with the heroe's journey isn't that I think it's wrong. It's that I think it's either too vague, or too restrictive (depending on how strict and literal you are with the categories) to be useful.

Considering this, I'm not even sure how to approach making such a list. I mean what about Pride and Prejudice? All Quiet on the Western Front? Waiting For Godot? At what point is putting a story on such a list obviously silly? (Listing Waiting for Godot would be silly, since it's obviously designed as an anti-story. But where do I draw the line?)

I do think applying the heroe's journey to Log Horizon is easier than applying it to any I've mentioned above. It's just that I don't know whether you'd even attempt to apply it to any of them. Many wouldn't.

If you're really interested in the conversation, send me a PM. I'll reply as best I can.
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Old 2013-10-30, 20:19   Link #1006
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Originally Posted by ZabiLegacy View Post
I actually agree with you on the fact that the show has had some character development, but this notion that "if you don't like something about the show you should just leave' is one of the most grating around. There are alot of reasons to dislike a show. Simply declaring that critism is invalid because someone can choose to stop watching implies that all critiques are meaningless. Which is absurd and a horrible mindset for anyone who consumes media.
It's the truth though. Criticizing a media is fine and all but there's a point where you might as well step back and let it be. I'm sorry if it came out as "If you don't like it, step away, your crit is invalid". What I meant to say is that, yes, your crit stands but can you let people enjoy it for what it is?

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By this point Shinsekai Yori set up it's conflict ages ago. Samurai Flamenco has done miles more with it's charachter and set up a conflict and remain intiresting. Kill La Kill has certainly done so. Even the etnerally reviled SAO did much more in it's first four episodes. If we are going to compare this only to two cour series in terms of pacing, then I'm game with you. But we're 1/6th of the way through the series and the clock is ticking.
I find the comparisons irritating too. This show isn't those shows. The point of this show is probably different from those shows too. It's fine if you think it's terrible. I admit, on its own it falls short in a lot of things. The novels- the more I hear about them - certainly handle things a lot better. But at this point the comparison and criticism just feels excessive.

tl;dr I get that you don't like this show. You have your standards. Your crit is valid. But please stop comparing this show from other shows so much and trying to convince everyone and their moms that this show is so absolutely terrible.

As they say, one man's trash may be another man's treasure and all that. Let them enjoy it the way they want to
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Old 2013-10-30, 20:25   Link #1007
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tl;dr I get that you don't like this show. You have your standards. Your crit is valid. But please stop comparing this show from other shows so much and trying to convince everyone and their moms that this show is so absolutely terrible.
To be fair though, no one is trying to convince anyone of anything. What all Zabi is doing is voicing his opinions. He keeps replying because you people keep attacking him.

Also let's make this clear.

Zabi, do you actually think this show is absolutely terrible?
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Old 2013-10-30, 20:32   Link #1008
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Of course not. The charachters are nice, the animation isn't amazing but ignores everything I actively dislike, the direction is pretty good, and the sense of internally consistent logic is top notch. It ignores most of the annoying moeisms strangaling anime, the entire cast is college students, it understands the importatance of sociology, economics, and politics, and there are alot of other things I like about it.

I don't rip apart shows I think are iredeemably bad. You will never see me show my face in the Walkure Romanze thread. It just grates on me when potential is lost to huge glaring flaws the like that keeps this series mediocre.
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Old 2013-10-30, 20:37   Link #1009
Puu
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
To be fair though, no one is trying to convince anyone of anything. What all Zabi is doing is voicing his opinions. He keeps replying because you people keep attacking him.

Also let's make this clear.

Zabi, do you actually think this show is absolutely terrible?
I feel like I have to apologize now if I sounded antagonistic. Sorry!
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Old 2013-10-31, 00:07   Link #1010
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Why not let's just all agree that there are flaws in the work that can be possibly done better but it felt lacking. The studio tried to adapt the novel into anime but they can't do all the internal monologue of Shiroe. It will be boring and the huge info dump of the novel will be bad in transition to anime. So they improvise and change a bit. Though some are glaring flaws like the battle in Susukino. But at least they do average in the development and stay true to the character.
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Old 2013-10-31, 00:35   Link #1011
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
The studio tried to adapt the novel into anime but they can't do all the internal monologue of Shiroe.
Actually, judging from what Aohige's revealed in the LN thread, and the running translation of book 2 right now in 4chan, Log Horizon is surprisingly low on first person monologues. In fact, its written in the 3rd person, which is another surprise (many LNs take the first person point of view because it's easier).
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Old 2013-10-31, 00:39   Link #1012
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Actually, judging from what Aohige's revealed in the LN thread, and the running translation of book 2 right now in 4chan, Log Horizon is surprisingly low on first person monologues. In fact, its written in the 3rd person, which is another surprise (many LNs take the first person point of view because it's easier).
You can still have internal monologue from a 3rd person perspective
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Old 2013-10-31, 02:49   Link #1013
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Actually, judging from what Aohige's revealed in the LN thread, and the running translation of book 2 right now in 4chan, Log Horizon is surprisingly low on first person monologues. In fact, its written in the 3rd person, which is another surprise (many LNs take the first person point of view because it's easier).
Aohige said that in vol 1. Shiroe has lots of inner monologue pertaining the current situation. Like all his theories on what happen to them, how they ended there and all the paranoia stuff. And also his hate for the current situation which reflect in vol 2 translation.

There are monologue though its probably not limited to Shiroe. Its probably proper to call it more narration to the situation.
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Old 2013-10-31, 04:03   Link #1014
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Originally Posted by ZabiLegacy View Post
Why would two cours of absolve a show of needing a hook? The first thing they teach you any sort of college that teaches writing is that you need a hook. WHy would that absolve you of needing good conflict.
I meant that the hook can end up coming later. And if you aren't intrigued enough to keep watching after them setting out on a journey on gryphons, going through a labyrinth, and rescuing a girl from a town overran with bandits ... I guess it's not for you?

Also, there's a new arc when they get back to Akiba next episode that does with a sticky issue.
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Old 2013-10-31, 05:22   Link #1015
Estavali
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Preview shots for episode 5 is out. Touya confirmed for next episode: http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime-blog/0120/171565.html
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Old 2013-10-31, 06:38   Link #1016
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I figured they'll follow the manga mostly, so I was surprised.
The last episode ended exactly at the end of chapter 7, but that preview shot is from chapter 10.

They might shuffle some things around though.
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Old 2013-10-31, 07:07   Link #1017
Estavali
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I figured they'll follow the manga mostly, so I was surprised.
The last episode ended exactly at the end of chapter 7, but that preview shot is from chapter 10.

They might shuffle some things around though.
Mmm, well, I guess this means they're still using the novel's pace as a standard while adding in manga-only segments when necessary =3
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Old 2013-10-31, 07:43   Link #1018
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Preview shots for episode 5 is out. Touya confirmed for next episode: http://www.nhk.or.jp/anime-blog/0120/171565.html
Touya is the little samurai-class kid showed in both OP and ED??
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Old 2013-10-31, 08:24   Link #1019
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Yes, and the girl is Isuzu, another key character of the series. She's also in OP & ED
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Old 2013-10-31, 09:38   Link #1020
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Who isn't in the OP and ED? There must be twenty or thirty characters between them.
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