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Old 2013-04-18, 03:38   Link #101
Hitenma
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sendai, Japan
Age: 29
An updated map? Where?

BTW, I actually enjoy playing Himegari more than Kamidori. Maybe because of the atmosphere (when I was playing Kamidori, I feel like going in a picnic, not crawling a dungeon).

Or maybe because I like sacrificing girls for mana
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Old 2013-04-18, 05:45   Link #102
Hemisphere
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Join Date: May 2006
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That, or because you have a squad full of Raumakarls.

Admit it.

Because I do!

...Honestly speaking, same here. I enjoyed the atmosphere in Himegari more than Kamidori. It was just chock-full of classic Eushully vibes. Plus I also loved Sylphinne's route all the way to her ending. It had a nice deconstruction on her archetype's usual role in fantasy stories, as well as Maou Emilio's, and while not on the level of Genrin 2 and ZERO, it was pretty engaging for me personally.

...I was kind of hoping that Hannah was Sylphinne and Emilio's love child, actually. Ahaha, haha, ha...
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:49   Link #103
Hitenma
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Actually the non-character units I used most are Orcs.

Those sturdy and dirt cheap cannon fodders who can find hidden tiles and unlock doors are just lovely
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Old 2013-04-18, 06:55   Link #104
Hemisphere
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Yes indeed, those expendable grunts served me well when it came to finding teasures and secret paths, as well as being meatshields extraordinaire. Spoken like a true evil overlord, kukuku...

*ahem* I mean I see your point. Why not make the most out of cheap, renewable resources? ...Kukuku.

...I just realized that maybe the reason why I love Sylphinne's route so much is because it reminds me of the relationship between Louie and Eleena. ;_;
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:43   Link #105
Drkz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitenma View Post
Actually the non-character units I used most are Orcs.

Those sturdy and dirt cheap cannon fodders who can find hidden tiles and unlock doors are just lovely
Orcs the cannon fodder of all things evil! Muahahahaha!

Speaking of orc cannon fodder.... May I present!



That or Thief and Troll... cause you know orcs are definitely trolls.
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Old 2013-04-18, 20:53   Link #106
Hemisphere
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Oh man, that game. I should try and finish that sometime. I mean, I managed to finish Dungeon Crusaderz 1 and 2, so I should be able to finish that...I hope.

Damn, I can't believe the music in this fight (ZERO spoilers in that image) still gets to me. It never fails to get me both pumped up, and horribly depressed at the same time (and being a remixed version of Ikusa Megami 1's OP doesn't help at all).

Makes me sad that VERITA's the last mainline Dir=Lyfna title we've had for a while now. Kamidori and Aterial barely added on the worldbuilding, and it never came close to the scope of worldbuilding that the previous titles had. It's depressing to see all this lore and mythos they've painstakingly built from the ground up get ignored.
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Old 2013-04-18, 22:59   Link #107
Key Board
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madou kokaku, seems to be a "proper" Dir Lyfna game

I think they have big plans for this

I still wish it was turn based, though..
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Old 2013-04-18, 23:58   Link #108
Drkz
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Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
Oh man, that game. I should try and finish that sometime. I mean, I managed to finish Dungeon Crusaderz 1 and 2, so I should be able to finish that...I hope.

Damn, I can't believe the music in this fight (ZERO spoilers in that image) still gets to me. It never fails to get me both pumped up, and horribly depressed at the same time (and being a remixed version of Ikusa Megami 1's OP doesn't help at all).

Makes me sad that VERITA's the last mainline Dir=Lyfna title we've had for a while now. Kamidori and Aterial barely added on the worldbuilding, and it never came close to the scope of worldbuilding that the previous titles had. It's depressing to see all this lore and mythos they've painstakingly built from the ground up get ignored.
Oh its nothing like dungeon crusader. They just they hired the artist. Its a completely different company from akaguya.

Maybe they where trying to get more fans? Its understandable I'm pretty sure eushully doesn't have that vast of a following if you compared to them to another company like alicesoft. I'm pretty sure the two games was to "test" the waters. To see what fans like. Since nowadays companys make quick and easy games. Games that are pretty effortless to get cg. Games that have a playtime of 5-10 hours on average? It seems a lot of fans don't care about stories anymore. Companies like Navel and Minori are getting hit pretty bad because fan's don't want a story. They want a game thats easily fappable too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
madou kokaku, seems to be a "proper" Dir Lyfna game

I think they have big plans for this

I still wish it was turn based, though..
I think they're trying to go all out because Soukoku became a flop. The card game system didn't really draw in a new crowd, instead all it did was irk a lot of their old fans. THE WORLD IS NOT READY FOR A SEX CARD BATTLE GAME! The new system seems like a mix of eushully, alicesoft, ninetails and baseson. Its pretty ambitious; if they manage to pull it off it'll be the slg game of 2013.
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Old 2013-04-19, 02:43   Link #109
Key Board
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my problem with Soukoku wasn't the battle system

it was the setting

when I think of Eushully I don't think of (proxy) Japanese high schools.
Soukoku was Eushully trying to be Shin Megami Tensei.
it's not necessarily bad, but it's not what I am used to.

but I'm pretty sure Soukoku wasn't a flop
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Old 2013-04-19, 05:34   Link #110
Hemisphere
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@Drkz: So people just want instant gratification over long-term enjoyment overall? I can see the appeal in short-term easy, quick enjoyment, but if it means abandoning enjoyment in the long run, lack of replayability and easily forgettable stories, then I guess I'll have to disagree.

There's a reason why I still enjoy the lore and mythos of Dir=Lyfna, and why I look back on Eushully's older titles with fondness and nostalgia even up to now, even if their gameplay has not aged well. I don't enjoy "bite-sized" games which companies cram out fast and without effort so they can milk me silly and make me forget that they add up to nothing significant in the long run and that their value is only "entertainment for the moment".

Also, I'm surprised that someone else knows about Dungeon Crusaderz. Did you by any chance play it? Just out of curiosity.

@Key Board: High schoolers! With special abilities! Fighting for the sake of the world!

FFS Eushully, please do what you do best and don't try to emulate others just because it's the general trend.

I'm not exactly sure where I heard this, nor do I have the figures to back it up, but I think I read somewhere that Aterial sold less than Kamidori, and Eushully tried making up for it with merchandise? Don't quote me on that because I'm not certain.

I'm really hoping that Madou Koukaku is a proper Eushully game, and I'll be waiting with bated breath.
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Old 2013-04-19, 10:16   Link #111
Key Board
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I'm pretty sure Soukaku sold less, but that's because of the economic times we are in

http://otoknights.com/2010-hentai-game/

As this chart shows, nowadays breaking 10K is not an easy feat

I'm not familiar with Dungeon Crusaderz, Hemisphere.

When it comes to eroge that have actual gameplay I only pay attention to a few brands: Alicesoft, Eushully and every once in a blue moon Softhouse Chara

I'm generally too scared or lazy to try out a new brand unless they really really make a big splash
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Old 2013-04-19, 10:42   Link #112
Drkz
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Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
@Drkz: So people just want instant gratification over long-term enjoyment overall? I can see the appeal in short-term easy, quick enjoyment, but if it means abandoning enjoyment in the long run, lack of replayability and easily forgettable stories, then I guess I'll have to disagree.

Also, I'm surprised that someone else knows about Dungeon Crusaderz. Did you by any chance play it? Just out of curiosity.


I'm really hoping that Madou Koukaku is a proper Eushully game, and I'll be waiting with bated breath.
Yeah I play a wide range of stuff. Even nukige lulz. kaguya has such nice art .

A lot of people are imouto-cons. Nowadays its instant gratification + pillows + extras + you know what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I'm pretty sure Soukaku sold less, but that's because of the economic times we are in

http://otoknights.com/2010-hentai-game/

As this chart shows, nowadays breaking 10K is not an easy feat

When it comes to eroge that have actual gameplay I only pay attention to a few brands: Alicesoft, Eushully and every once in a blue moon Softhouse Chara

I'm generally too scared or lazy to try out a new brand unless they really really make a big splash
Its a dungeon crawler Key. Kill a monster rinse and repeat. Its excess grinding. Not really a strong story haha. Kaguya for the big-breasted lover in you~. Softhouse makes those quick and easy cash games. Nowadays the market for SRPG games is pretty tuff. Everyone is coming out of the woodwork to make their own version. You need a fanbase backing in order to survive.
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Old 2013-04-19, 11:26   Link #113
Flying Dagger
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I don't think Soukoku is that bad: art, music, and story wise I feel is an improvement from kamidori. I personally liked the card system as well, its a nice change of pace from the various SRPGs out there (the opinion of "everyone are making SPRGs vs I don't like how they made a card game" seem to be somewhat conflicting).

I think someone on HF forums said Soukoku did good enough which allow them to hire male voice actors for kokakou?

Having only played kamidori and SnA, I enjoy the gameplay elements of those games the most: at least that's the big thing which keeps me playing. The demo for me is rather disappointing in terms of game play element. Sure, its fun to manage your own simcity, but the battles themselves seem rather... stupid. I just cannot see much depth into that: especially if battles run on real time with a limit of 3 units controlled by the player.

The art in the Kokakou demo is horrible as I pointed out earlier in the thread (notice the difference in background, the lack of detail on armor, and how antialiasing isn't turned on for the black line in the middle). This is something I am really worried about.

The only thing left is to hope they wrote a real asskicking story to go with the game - which is something I failed to see in the demo - as the story can be summarized as "let's brute force our way through conquered lands and pay back for what they have done" instead of using a much smarter approach involving diplomacy and battle tactics such as terrain/weather advantages.

One week left til release (minus whatever time it takes for it to show up over the internet...).
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Old 2013-04-19, 15:50   Link #114
Drkz
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Well the few don't really have a say. Eushully games are considered in the "epic" category. The release a game once a year. If the game doesn't do well the company can go over so they need to cater the taste of the masses. I'm a card game freak so I enjoyed it. The demo was released pretty early... considering how much work they need to put into the game. I thought it was more of a can my setup run this kind of demo + user feedback. It was still better than the rance eight demo. Never cared for male characters so....
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Old 2013-04-20, 01:25   Link #115
Hemisphere
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I've found that card games can be extremely polarizing. They can be fun for some people, while others find the arbitrariness of them off-putting, for starters.

That's been their release schedule for some time now, though. Game comes out April, Trial comes out March. So they were just following their schedule.

As to how unpolished the game was, judging from the trial, on the other hand...

At this rate, I'm scared if they ever come out with a IM1/2 remake/s and new Eushully decides they want to "tweak the story a bit".
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Old 2013-04-20, 01:57   Link #116
Flying Dagger
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I don't think its necessary a card game issue: going beyond the comfortable zone of RPG (and variants) may already be polarizing enough.

Saw a set of SoA cards somewhere on a jp site b4 (was it on their team lead's twitter? forgot), I wonder if soukoku profits were boosted by its other goods.

Having male voice actors really feel like a waste of cash if they "aren't doing too well".

I guess there is also a brandname factor to kokakou: Eushully might be established enough to sell a good amount of copies even if the gameplay is crap. I can see Eushully trying to sell figures of the four dolls (there is one shown on twitter).

I think Eushully is going to take massive flame if they remade their earlier games. I mean, I am already looking forward to their future games without knowing what they are -_-.

I think a simple "fix" would be to allow more battalions to be deployed (8 sounds like a good number). Implement collision among friendly forces, and also smoothen out the control.

Bigger maps might also help (even if sections are only opened up during combat).

Well, 6 more days... maybe game will get leaked 2 days in advance so maybe 4 more days?
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Old 2013-04-20, 02:31   Link #117
Hemisphere
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True enough. Though, card game issue aside, some JP players took issue with how Aterial's story was pretty much "teenagers with special powers" (like that nico video I linked to before) like some typical shounen battle manga. It really doesn't mesh well with Dir=Lyfna's atmosphere, and I agree with them on that part.

As to why they went with a card system...mere speculation on my part but they've used cards as representations of character portraits and such in their old games like Meishoku no Reiki, and the Ikusa Megami series (save VERITA; see here for sample). Maybe they just thought "hey, since we used cards before as portraits, why not adopt a card system?", or something.

Regarding old remakes, the only reason I brought it up was because Eushully's president mentioned something of the sort back then - I don't recall the specifics, but they hinted to the possibility of remake/s for their old titles like Ikusa Megami. This is the reason why some JP Eu fans also mention IM remakes from time to time.

I'm hoping that Madoukaku carries an atmosphere, tension and story that's reminiscent of Genrin 2 (or at the very least, something reminiscent of it), even if the gameplay ends up disappointing. Aside from gameplay being a basic and core element of SLGs, I can see where the people who are just newly introduced to Eushully's stuff (via Kamidori) are coming from, and why they place a huge emphasis on the gameplay; because that's been the hook since Kamidori and Aterial. In my case, I would probably be more than willing to overlook any gameplay faults, as long as they deliver with the Dir=Lyfna lore - as long as they aren't footnotes, like it has been with the past two games, at least.
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Old 2013-04-20, 07:36   Link #118
Drkz
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Ah. That explains why someone told me about remakes. I don't think they really need it... I mean it not like the games where 8-bit. Well now i'm pretty sure they'll probably never do a card game again . I liked the card game it was fun. It was neat finding ways to break the game. .
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Old 2013-04-20, 07:42   Link #119
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Originally Posted by Drkz View Post
Ah. That explains why someone told me about remakes. I don't think they really need it... I mean it not like the games where 8-bit. Well now i'm pretty sure they'll probably never do a card game again . I liked the card game it was fun. It was neat finding ways to break the game. .
True, but unfortunately, some people find it dated and just tedious to play compared to contemporary titles. I don't have that problem, but others do, and I guess recognizing that is just half the battle...? Or something.

Then again, maybe I'm just weird. I tend to have a lot of fun with Wizardry-ish games (hello, Dungeon Crusaderz 1 and 2), and even barebones simple SLGs (Venus Bloods, mmmm) and other stuff (on the eroge side, as examples). Even if they were nothing to write home about, I still had fun playing them, though the level of enjoyment is a different matter altogether.
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Old 2013-04-20, 08:11   Link #120
Drkz
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True, but unfortunately, some people find it dated and just tedious to play compared to contemporary titles. I don't have that problem, but others do, and I guess recognizing that is just half the battle...? Or something.

Then again, maybe I'm just weird. I tend to have a lot of fun with Wizardry-ish games (hello, Dungeon Crusaderz 1 and 2), and even barebones simple SLGs (Venus Bloods, mmmm) and other stuff (on the eroge side, as examples). Even if they were nothing to write home about, I still had fun playing them, though the level of enjoyment is a different matter altogether.
Dungeon Crusader is considered a dungeon crawler. Monmusu quest made monster girl dungeon crawlers pretty popular.... yeah slgs are fun, but pretty long. Sometimes a normal vn is good for breaks or nukige .
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