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Old 2013-01-06, 16:42   Link #1981
kitten320
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Neither is mine but that's a fact in most cases =/
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Old 2013-01-06, 16:42   Link #1982
NoemiChan
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I will not argue with women.. Many think I'm just flirting with them...

Regarding K, I'm still putting some consideration but I'll watch again probably...
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Old 2013-01-06, 16:51   Link #1983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
Oh Christ, I sound like a total feminazi now which SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO isn't my attention....

Men are weird.
Women are even weirder. They can hate moeblob shows like K-On and Hidamari Sketch but at same time indulging themselves something like Kimi to Boku(basically K-On with boys and even less music) and bishounen fanservice shows. Double standard at its finest. How some fangirls defended K amuses me, in bad way.

The only reason why the female-oriented shows are not as hated as most of the male-oriented ones because they aren't many people seeing them. For example most shounen-ai and yaoi shows are rated highly in Myanimelist not because they are good but rather there aren't many people rated low.

Back to topic, I think Hetalia also escalates to this level too. While I may hate its fangirls more than the show itself but I just sick with stumbling upon too many badly-drawn Hetalia fan arts in deviantArt even my search query had nothing to do with Hetalia at all. Proves that women are just as shallow as men are.
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Old 2013-01-06, 17:02   Link #1984
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
That's what seriously pissed me off though about the complaints about K.

Ok, you don't like the show that's cool...it's not the best written series out there, but most of the complaints were seriously just because it focused more on guys than women.

But if Lt. Big Boobs and Neko were the stars, it'd be 'HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWESOME!!!'
Well said! I have noticed this quite a bit as well, K getting a lot of hate just because there isnt a primary female focus. I have even seen people label K as a BL series on seperate forums, which makes me sad and face palm at the same time. It is extremely ridiculous in my opinion but hey, what can you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Women are even weirder. They can hate moeblob shows like K-On and Hidamari Sketch but at same time indulging themselves something like Kimi to Boku(basically K-On with boys and even less music) and bishounen fanservice shows. Double standard at its finest. How some fangirls defended K amuses me, in bad way.
I think this be can applied to anyone and not just women. I for one was extremely bored with Hidamari Sketch and never intend to watch it again but loved both K-On and Kimi to Boku. It all comes down to personal taste really, or so I like to think.
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Last edited by Chandela; 2013-01-06 at 17:13. Reason: Added a response.
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Old 2013-01-06, 17:10   Link #1985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chandela View Post
Well said! I have noticed this quite a bit as well, K getting a lot of hate just because there isnt a primary female focus. I have even seen people label K as a BL series on seperate forums, which makes me sad and face palm at the same time. It is extremely ridiculous in my opinion but hey, what can you do?
You can't blame them. Seeing the characters have weird stares, blushes, gets to close to another guy and all that is missing is a "masculine moan"... Blame it the art director to put that usually scenes on the episodes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Women are even weirder.
This is really funny.. Opposite sex collide.

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2013-01-06 at 17:20.
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Old 2013-01-06, 17:14   Link #1986
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Say anything that you hate about ecchi shows and replaced it with pretty boys, you got yourself K. In the end shows like K are just fangirls equivalent to ecchi shows for guys. End story.

It seems that Ouran High School Host Club for me as well. Not just I loathes the show but it rated so high in Myanimelist, Anime News Network, Anime-Planet and Anime-Source.
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Old 2013-01-06, 17:40   Link #1987
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Won't argue, there are a lot of retarded fan girls that I want to smack myself -_-
Sometimes makes me ashamed for my gender... yaoi fans are the worst ones.

But in order to be back on topic I'll throw in Katekyo Hitman Reborn!.


I seriously don't get how this show became so popular. Author defiantly has no self respect what so ever. For one females are literally living in a kitchen there but ok...
But what the heck is wrong with those characters?! All of them are so stupid it is not even funny! The all famous Hibari is the most plain character I ever met. Even SAO characters have more depth than him! And I find SAO bad so it says a lot.

And Tsuna... don't get me started on him. His character is screaming "take drugs and you'll be cool" because that's how it is. Without medicine he is a cowardly loser, once he takes a table he becomes cool and fearless.
It really is the lamest "character development" I ever saw x_x
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Old 2013-01-06, 18:04   Link #1988
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Oh, forgot OnePiece, can't stand the animation. When will they improve.
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Old 2013-01-06, 18:04   Link #1989
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Won't argue, there are a lot of retarded fan girls that I want to smack myself -_-
Sometimes makes me ashamed for my gender... yaoi fans are the worst ones.

I don't like yaoi....I actually find yuri to be better written than yaoi. The only yaoi series that I really enjoyed was Gravitation.

I just find most yaoi to be horribly done.

Quote:
But in order to be back on topic I'll throw in Katekyo Hitman Reborn!.


I seriously don't get how this show became so popular. Author defiantly has no self respect what so ever. For one females are literally living in a kitchen there but ok...
But what the heck is wrong with those characters?! All of them are so stupid it is not even funny! The all famous Hibari is the most plain character I ever met. Even SAO characters have more depth than him! And I find SAO bad so it says a lot.

And Tsuna... don't get me started on him. His character is screaming "take drugs and you'll be cool" because that's how it is. Without medicine he is a cowardly loser, once he takes a table he becomes cool and fearless.
It really is the lamest "character development" I ever saw x_x

I got thru about five episodes before I dropped that one...because I hated everyone in that show so so much....

Except Lambo. He cracked me up with his goofiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Oh, forgot OnePiece, can't stand the animation. When will they improve.
Speaking of retarded fans, I hate the Oda fanboys who diss every single mangaka out there because he's not Oda...

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-01-06 at 19:53. Reason: merged the double-post
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Old 2013-01-06, 19:09   Link #1990
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Code Geass. So much hype, the best anime ever, nothing like this will ever be made again, this is godlike, etc. Then guess what, I watch it, and it's not the best ever, just a "normal" anime. I wouldn't hate it if my expectation didn't rise to the moon before watching it, but like this I can't stand it. The second season being worse than the first didn't help it either...

About One Piece, the animation will never improve. Look at the latest episode, it's worse than ever. It's true the good animators are working on the movie right now, but still, even with them there, it wasn't that much better. I'm fine with just reading the manga, it's better than the anime anyway.
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Old 2013-01-06, 19:11   Link #1991
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I just find most yaoi to be horribly done.
Both of them.
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Old 2013-01-06, 22:58   Link #1992
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Sword Art Online. A show that started off good, then went downhill after ep3. It became cliche in every sense of the word.
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Old 2013-01-07, 03:26   Link #1993
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Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Women are even weirder. They can hate moeblob shows like K-On and Hidamari Sketch but at same time indulging themselves something like Kimi to Boku(basically K-On with boys and even less music) and bishounen fanservice shows. Double standard at its finest. How some fangirls defended K amuses me, in bad way.
Most of my female friends are moe fans at some level, particularly my girlfriend who is a major Hidamari Sketch fangirl. I'm the one who suggested to her we should try watching Kimi to Boku some time.

Of course, given that the group being surveyed here are my friends, there may be some selection bias at work.
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Old 2013-01-07, 03:59   Link #1994
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Well to be honest romance isn't that well written in anime, doesn't matter yuri, yaoi or hetero. Takes a lot of effort to make a love story good.

Hetero most of the times has girls falling over the guy like leaves in autumn. Yuri(of which I'm a fan) doesn't have guys most of the time(wtf? Are lesbians from another world or something?)

Back on topic,
Shakugan no Shana 2 - I don't if this is well loved or not but, I sure as hell don't like it. Characters were irritating to the point where I was having to control myself to smash my tv. The only reason I even watched half of it was because I watched it on tv and not on the internet.
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Old 2013-01-07, 04:19   Link #1995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Women are even weirder. They can hate moeblob shows like K-On and Hidamari Sketch but at same time indulging themselves something like Kimi to Boku(basically K-On with boys and even less music) and bishounen fanservice shows.
Dude, what. K-On! was actually the popular crossover show. Phenomenon, unusual airing slot, Japanese women liked it, etc.

And I have no idea who'd be particularly offended by Hidamari Sketch of all things. Ignore, yeah, but hating on it?

There are plenty of boobs and bitches type shows out there to annoy people. These two ain't it. Get your examples straight.
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Old 2013-01-07, 06:12   Link #1996
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I Forgot to add "non-Japanese" in previous post but I do remember how I was attacked by them when K-On was popular. I also learn that most of them are fujioshi and shoujo extremists who hates anything moe. Hypocrisy at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
It seems that Ouran High School Host Club for me as well. Not just I loathes the show but it rated so high in Myanimelist, Anime News Network, Anime-Planet and Anime-Source.
Finally my prayers has been answered. It's nice to see people other than myself hating that show. Because of the absence of reputation system means I can write spicy rant on that show. Perhaps this is the blessing that I have waited for so long.

There just too many things I hate about Ouran but pretty boys and homo-erotica are definitely aren't. No other anime that personally offended my than this one except School Days, which also offended millions. I also know that I'm not its target audience but how it is popular among 20-something males is beyond me except they hates harem shows. I'm just out of words to describe it except how crappy Ouran is, which I'm about to flesh out.

First the bullying issues. Even in first episode we already at least two cases of bullying. First Haruhi was bullied by the read-haired girl for some unknown reasons, maybe she thinks Haruhi don't deserve to be in that School. Later she was bullied by Tamaki and his gang for accidentally broke an expensive vase. She also forced to do menial tasks while Tamaki and his gang sit on their expensive couch sipping expensive tea. While she may know she was bullied by the red-haired girl but not by Tamaki? It can be explained that she broke the vase and she deserves to be their slave and had to pay on what she did. To sum it all she knew she can fight that redhead back but not Tamaki. This could my next reason why I hate Ouran...

Second the sexism. It is funny and sad at same time to see how the target audiences(16-years old girls and older) are completely oblivious the sexism issues of that show or just being ignorant(just pretend they never know about it). Plato was right, ignorance is the root and stem of all evils. There's no better example which one of the Myanimelist user points out, just ignore(no pun intended) the parts which I striked:

Quote:
This is officially the first negative review of Ouran High School Host Club on MAL... which is weird, considering how terrible a show it is.

Now before all else, let me just say that I'm a guy. That means I'm MALE, and that this show's target demographic does not include me. I am well aware of this fact, and all the more baffled because of it.

I'm going to skip over the "humor" and the characters and the plot and everything else and go straight for the one thing that made me hate this anime: Ouran is quite possibly the most sexist anime I've ever seen. It discriminates and bashes on women more than any other show I've ever seen, including those stupid slave/maid hentai shows.

One scene in particular illustrates this very well:
Haruhi sees some of the Host Club's clients getting bullied by a couple of men, and she stands up to the bullies. The rest of the Host Club rush to her aid, protect her, and then scold her for taking things into her own hands. If that weren't enough, the show villainizes Haruhi afterwards, making it seem as if she did something wrong. She is forced to (rather, guilt-tripped into) apologize for acting "rashly" (aka "doing something").

Why does this happen?

Oh right, because Haruhi is a woman. And women are supposed to do nothing but sit around all day at the top of castles and wait for their knights in shining armor to rescue them. Yeah.

That's the VICTORIAN AGE, people. This is the 21st century. Here, we have women screaming their lungs off about women's rights. There's women's suffrage. Women have been working their asses off for this past century to establish themselves in Americ-

OH, THAT'S RIGHT. This was made in JAPAN, the land of the Office Lady and tentacle porno, where women are treated like dirt and paid accordingly. Apparently, animation companies think they like being treated like dirt. And with the insane popularity of this series, you'd think women actually feel that way.
See, its clear as a day and yet they didn't see it. Even those who did say "it's a flaw and every good shows had flaws". Why nobody besides this guy and myself complaining about it? Just because there aren't many haters. Whoever wrote that review is my hero. In fact it is only one of the 2 bad reviews of Ouran while the rest are sea of false praises and harem-bashing rants, which are too one-sided to begin with.

Third most people fail to realize Tamaki is a biggest jerk of all time, except Makoto Itou who canonically dead anyway. Disagree with me? I already mentioned that he bullied Haruhi by making her to work as an indentured servant and more of that, forces Haruhi to wear a dress because he had no male uniform left. It's true Tamaki don't realize Haruhi is a girl in that time but if Haruhi was really a guy then it could her(or his) worst day of her(or his) life. The redhead who bullied Haruhi earlier, was treated even worse. She has embarrassed and ridiculed right on front of public. Much like she was stripped naked front of public and rest of her clothing was burned and she had no choice but to run away naked with zero dignity and all other women are free to call her "slut". Her life will never be the same again unless she commits suicide. Maybe that's why we never see her again. It's true she deserves it but at same time I also felt sorry for her. She's also the victim like what she did to Haruhi earlier. Haruhi in other words is a very unsympathetic character I ever met which also the fourth and last issue with Ouran...

Fourth and last Haruhi is an unsympathetic character with zero personality. What's worse than that most people actually love about her. I would call her as empty eggshell, brittle and had nothing inside. The only prominent feature is the shell itself. At least it had color, even just bland brown or white. Perhaps Haruhi is the reversed-gender version of every nerdy, unpopular guys in most harem shows who also at same time attracts numbers of pretty and cute girls but have no idea how. At least those guys had more personality than her and obviously had sexuality, which I also learn that Haruhi is an asexual and it was confirmed.

Feel free to hate me for doing this but I don't care unless you can give me some good counter-critism. I don't want to read those that say I don't like romance because there's no romance in Ouran to speak of. Of course this is a rant and rants are not facts. My rants does not speak for the others.

Last edited by NK_500; 2013-01-07 at 06:24.
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Old 2013-01-07, 07:15   Link #1997
Traece
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Dat Ouran hate. I can certainly see some truth in a lot of those criticisms. I found Ouran to be an interesting watch just because I felt that it was developed well. I was a bit more focused on the whole story rather than some of the characters and some of the implications of their roles. Ouran is an average show, to be frank. One of the things I found myself enjoying about it was how it was a nicely balanced romance/comedy. I think that might be what causes it to be popular. It's easy to watch for that reason. Plus you have to give it a little respect for having been a male harem for a female character, which is kind of rare. But yeah, it does have some questionable implications.

Let's see... Ah, right, Bleach.

A lot of people like Bleach. It's a long-running manga and anime, and that provides ample evidence to its popularity. What strikes me as odd is the fact that it ended up being popular. A lot of my focus when watching anime goes to the writing, and a little bit of it goes to the art. I'm constantly bothered by Bleach in most every way in regards to how the series was written. I do not understand the direction Tite Kubo took with the Ichigo character. I hate that he wrote Ichigo into a state of independence from Soul Society and refused to place him as a true member of their ranks. I feel like that series would have had so much potential if Ichigo had been part of a group, and had been engrossed in that community and that hierarchy. Instead, Ichigo would go around getting himself into all sorts of trouble with enemy groups, and occasionally save the Soul Society which was written as being seemingly non-existent. For a character who can't win his own fights, Ichigo seems to save an entire society of well-trained and well-organized fantasy fighters with the same attributes as himself. This wouldn't be so bad, except it just does not make any sense at all. If the Ichigo character had been a strong and independent character, he would absolutely be expected to run around and save people. Instead he's a perpetual weakling who wins his fights on plot armor and random bouts of strength from seemingly nowhere, and he constantly depends on those around him to supplement his lack of strength. When the Ichigo character needs to become more powerful, he is more often than not handed this strength by plot devices that seem to have been developed specifically to make him more powerful. Even then, his character continues to be incapable.

The main plot of the Bleach series is equally shoddy. The twist of the traitor characters was certainly interesting, but it was also somewhat meaningless because these characters had never really been introduced. Those traitor characters and the people they were close to don't get a proper back story until much farther into the series in some cases. On that note, a positive appears: The writing for the Soul Society characters and the Soul Society in general is better than most of the writing in the entire series. A lot of the aspects of the Soul Society have obviously had thought put into them and are engaging. I like the Soul Society. I like the idea of Soul Society. I suspect that the majority of people find these characters and their lives to be interesting. Yet for all its potential, it's not as explored as it should be. It should have been the focus, somewhat like D.Gray-Man which has a similar premise to Bleach. Unless the Ichigo character has some redeeming qualities, which he really doesn't, I don't want to have him be the focus. I'd like him to be the proxy by which I get to experience this vast and fascinating society of shinigami that go around slaying hollows and have all of these really interesting abilities and swords to do so with.

Which brings me to yet another point. Zanpakutos. What happened to those things? I'll take this moment to admit that I dropped Bleach deep into the series at the duel in the city between the two forces (people that far in will know what I'm referring to). At this point it seemed like Bleach became focused on character transformations, and started ignoring the zanpakuto element which had been a huge part in the very beginning. Swords with special powers that are as varied as the cosmos, and less than half of the shinigami even have their "bankai" figured out. Some of them barely had any development in regards to their zanpakutos beyond acting as a plot device. Why? It's like Soul Eater where all of the weapons are unique and have their own pros, cons, and a multitude of creative application. Now, in defense of the author, several of the zanpakutos are very creative and very interesting. A couple low-key shinigami characters were gifted with some amazing zanpakuto that had some of the more creative abilities I've seen in this kind of franchise. But on the down side, those characters maybe get one good duel and then stop existing. For almost the entire cast, development of skills and abilities tends to be almost absent. Some of the characters do train and legitimately work at their abilities, such as the soul society rival character (red-hair guy with the rat flail). Actually, a lot of the soul society characters hone their skills in one way or another and I do respect that. The issue I have is that it literally serves no purpose for almost all of them. When push comes to shove a lot of those characters were portrayed as being just as weak after training as they were prior to training. Chad, Quincy-kid, Orihime, and rat-flail guy are the only characters that I felt truly gained something from training themselves in their respective abilities. But as I said before, when the time for them to use those abilities comes around they tend to flop just as easily as they did before, because there's never really a good showing of that progression. They train, and then they get annihilated and plot armor their way to victory.

That leads me to my final bit of rant. Support cast. I'm not even going to mention the Orihime character, as I think she flaunts her own terribleness sufficiently. What disappointed me the most was Rukia. Rukia is the Hinata (Naruto) of Bleach. You go a grand portion of the series without the character really doing much or having a particularly strong role, and then suddenly the character swoops in and gets their own fighting style and back story and does all this cool stuff and you ask yourself: "Why did the author wait so long to come up with such an interesting character?!" The difference is that Hinata continues to be a raving badass, and Rukia immediately returns to the sidelines. There was no reason for her character to be sidelined for so long. The excuse was "soul injury" and that she was weak, but there's no real basis for it taking such a long time and it's all pretty arbitrary. To make matters worse, she was given a really potentially cool zanpakuto that paralleled another character's and allowed for a lot of development of her character both as a fighter and as an individual. But, this is Bleach, and apparently development is complicated. I mean, we also have the highschool rival Quincy character who is the "super-genius" and "jack of all trades" trope who starts playing a part rather suddenly after a little bit of him being worked into the series. You know, this isn't really so big of a deal since he's given some proper development and backstory. Then we have the impoverished Christian Mexican who is good-natured and dependable, and was raised by his ultra-humble and righteous Christian Mexican uncle. OK, seriously? I'm not going to lie, I actually don't have a clear memory of why he has powers. He has super strength and a demonic arm sort of thing, but no matter how hard I try I can't remember why or how. For me that lack of memory is shocking, and especially so when you consider the fact that I actually liked Chad at the time I watched Bleach. Moving away from the supporting cast, there's the shinigami squadrons of the Soul Society. I've already talked a lot about how interesting and varied they are and all the potential that was wasted here.

The short of it is: Bleach had a lot of great ideas and vast potential, but the author limited himself severely and went in a strange direction that just didn't pay off. Well, except for Bleach being popular among the masses.

Also, who needs "sv_cheats 1" and "god" when you have plot armor?
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Last edited by Traece; 2013-01-07 at 07:16. Reason: No edit. I just wanted to appreciate that this is literally the longest and harshest critique I have ever written.
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Old 2013-01-07, 07:54   Link #1998
relentlessflame
 
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Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
See, its clear as a day and yet they didn't see it. Even those who did say "it's a flaw and every good shows had flaws". Why nobody besides this guy and myself complaining about it? Just because there aren't many haters. Whoever wrote that review is my hero. In fact it is only one of the 2 bad reviews of Ouran while the rest are sea of false praises and harem-bashing rants, which are too one-sided to begin with.
I haven't watched the show in question, so I can't really address the specific criticism. (Although it seems to me that the very particular example quoted may be being misconstrued; how is it smart for *anyone* regardless of gender to stand up to a group of bullies like that? I mean, sure, it's somehow noble, but it's also rash and dangerous. If they had decided to start attacking her instead, now things are even worse. Sometimes being the "hero" isn't the wisest course of action. Maybe that was the real point of the scene? Then again, like I said, I haven't seen the show, so feel free to ignore this if it doesn't apply.)

But I will say this: it is completely and entirely possible to understand what some people consider a flaw, but not have it negatively impact your own enjoyment at all. That doesn't mean the problem is that there "aren't many haters" (being a "hater" is not the solution). That also doesn't means that criticisms are being drowned out in a sea of "false praises" -- the praise could easily be genuine. Part of having different perspectives isn't just "seeing things differently" (which implies that you can open people's eyes to things they didn't see), but also "valuing things differently". An issue may be a big deal to one person, and not a big deal at all to someone else. In one context, someone might consider something problematic, but in another context they may not consider it so bad.

And that's really the heart of this thread. All those "good reasons" people think they have for hating a show? Someone else could just look at that and say "that's nice; I don't care -- I liked it for totally different reasons, and the things you dislike don't affect that". And the most critical part is: that doesn't make anyone wrong. Your mountain, my molehill, and vice-versa.

That's why this sort of attitude:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
It is funny and sad at same time to see how the target audiences(16-years old girls and older) are completely oblivious the sexism issues of that show or just being ignorant(just pretend they never know about it). Plato was right, ignorance is the root and stem of all evils.
...is not very helpful in the end. Rather than just present the problem you have, you're attacking the fans as if they either are ignorant or are feigning ignorance. You're not considering all the many reasons why this may not be as big a deal to them as it is to you (because perhaps they didn't see everything the same way you did). This tends to degrade quickly from "hating a show" into "hating the fans of a show", and I've yet to see anything good come from that.

Anyway, this isn't an attempt to dismiss your criticisms by any means (as I said, I haven't seen the show, and besides this isn't really a thread for people to argue back). But I do think your rhetoric is pretty borderline in terms of its respect towards other people with differing views. If you waited for the rep system just to disappear to leave this rant, you might consider why some may have considered it worthy of neg rep in the first place. Not because "I don't want to hear any legitimate criticism of my favourite show!" (I haven't even seen the show), but because nobody likes to be accused of being either ignorant or a liar just because they won't acknowledge whatever it is you consider so awful about a piece of entertainment.
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Old 2013-01-07, 08:11   Link #1999
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@relentlessflame:

Maybe you just worry that this thread could turn into a fans-haters battlefield but as an ecchi fan myself I'm already used being thrown shit at. Do I fight them back? No. I hope shoujo fans can do the same.
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Old 2013-01-07, 08:18   Link #2000
Fuyuno
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Two long rants in a day. That's something you're not going to see everyday.

Ouran High School Host Club for me as well though I don't hate it. "Dislike" is more accurate word. The only issue I had with Ouran is it tried to be a shoujo deconstruction but at same time wants to be an average fanservice-y shoujo show. It just confused which direction it should become.

I also wonder if reversed-gender Ouran could work...
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