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Old 2012-04-15, 20:38   Link #1841
Akito Kinomoto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Wasn't your crux that a company will throw away the source's story if they felt it sucked?
No. My argument was that the reason an adaptation might be bad is because the original source itself is bad.
Quote:
If you are too lazy to do that, well how do you prove your point that there are anime series out there that threw away the plot of it's source and yet still managed to do well?
It's called a tangent for a reason.
Quote:
Besides from having a stupidly high fanbase everywhere on the internet, do you see some other relation between those series that i have mentioned and other random adaptions of 2011 that did not sell well like C^3 , Mashiro iro symphony, Usagi Drop RO-KYU-BU!, Oretachi ni Tsubasa wa Nai, etc. ?
As for the actual sales of 2008, you can't find it online since it never made in any weekly top 30 rankings of that year. Yet it already had a fanbase before 2009 and it's popularity rose tremendously after the anime (similar to what the anime adaption of the idolm@ster did to it's original)
Yes. Well see here's the thing: You keep saying that the reason Fate/Zero, Persona 4, ect. adaptations were commercially successful because of their preexisting fanbase and you seem to be implying the same thing happened to K-On! The keyword here though is that the popularity of the series rose tremendously after the anime started airing. I won't deny there was already a preexisting fanbase but why do you think the manga didn't even make it to the top 30 until 2009?

Edit: Your argument is further exacerbated by the fact that the Usagi Drop anime followed the manga pretty well. What was that about high sales being synonymous with faithfulness to the source material now?
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Last edited by Akito Kinomoto; 2012-04-15 at 20:54.
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Old 2012-04-15, 23:40   Link #1842
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
There are a lot of shows, that take a popular cast of characters and throw them into a completely strange story.
Although I don't know, how many of these are based on a written source originally.

Things like FMP:Fumoffu and Futakoi Alternative come to mind.
Fumoffu was merely the funny bits of the manga/novel, animated. They should have included them in the original Full Metal Panic, but for some reason, didn't.
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Old 2012-04-16, 01:57   Link #1843
Kameruka
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I shamelessly declare myself as a troll mentioning this show: Daily Lives of High School Boys(I don't know its Japanese title and I don't care about it either).

I have no idea why this show get lots of credits in popular sites such as Myanimelist and Anime News Network except it just a (rather bland) copy of Minami-ke and K-ON!, except not as good as both. It is pretty obvious that I isn't its target audience but at same time I also wonder why lots of men at my age like this show except they didn't saw anything quite like it. I have no idea why people say this show is funny but in fact its quite opposite, at least for me. I hate to say this but even the worst and most boring Crayon Shin-chan is many time funnier than the funniest episode of that show.

You can say I were biased and I'm not afraid to claim myself biased. What do you expect from a 27-years old man like me? That is not different to a 16-years old shoujo or yaoi fangirl towards ecchi and moe shows that intended for 20-something years old men.

....And Kimi to Boku too. That ****(was it censored) was even worse Daily Lives of High School Boys, not by much.
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Old 2012-04-16, 02:28   Link #1844
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
No. My argument was that the reason an adaptation might be bad is because the original source itself is bad.


So how many adaptations have you seen that had a bad horrible? Seeing that you still refuse to name some examples, i am still not convinced by your argument.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
Yes. Well see here's the thing: You keep saying that the reason Fate/Zero, Persona 4, ect. adaptations were commercially successful because of their preexisting fanbase and you seem to be implying the same thing happened to K-On! The keyword here though is that the popularity of the series rose
That is something that can be answered with the preorders. All 3 of those series had also a high number of preorders before the series finished airing.
I used this site to track the preorders of some series, but unfortunately it doesn't track more than 120 days. So i don't have the exact numbers now, but it was quite high even for most anime standards.

http://www.rankbank.net/amaran/

Also in my opinion persona 4, Fate/zero and horizon had pretty weak first few episodes. I doubt that the popularity simply came from watching the anime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
tremendously after the anime started airing. I won't deny there was already a preexisting fanbase but why do you think the manga didn't even make it to the top 30 until 2009?


If you think logically, then you know that there are a huge ammount of mangas coming out every month. Most of them are big names like one piece, bleach etc. or had a bigger fanbase at that time like Hayate no Gotoku. So it had strong competiton from existing mangas, some of them already have an anime adaptation. Making it to the top 30 was not feasible.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Akito_Kinomoto View Post
Edit: Your argument is further exacerbated by the fact that the Usagi Drop anime followed the manga pretty well. What was that about high sales being synonymous with faithfulness to the source material now?
My argument never was a true adaptation would sell well. Otherwise almost every anime adaptation would have had decent sales.
My argument was the opposite, a not faithfull adaptation is less likely to sell well.
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Old 2012-04-16, 04:06   Link #1845
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
...
You must have had very sad and boring highschol life to not relate to anything happening in Danshi Koukou. Because one of the points of this show is to recall men their highschool years with lots of "hah, I have been here and have done that back in those days..."

Also, before you say anything, I have seen both K-on and Minami-ke. Danshi Koukousei is different from many shows in its genre because it did the opposite of what most of "Cute Girls Doing Cute Things" shows did in the past decade. Not only it give back highschool boys their much needed spotlight, it also did it without making the opposite gender a non-factor. Both genders drives the show, and are as mean as they are each other to their peers as any. Also, it doesn't cater to fujoshi.

Then again why argue with someone thinking that some incest show is a masterpiece, right?
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Old 2012-04-16, 04:17   Link #1846
Kameruka
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Then again why argue with someone thinking that some incest show is a masterpiece, right?
At least I'm pretty open to everyone what my biases are, not like some posers who happened to be Legend of Galactic Heroes or Hokuto no Ken fanboys who hates anything "cute" in the internet but also happened to be huge moe fanboys in real-life.
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Old 2012-04-16, 04:37   Link #1847
ahelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
I shamelessly declare myself as a troll mentioning this show: Daily Lives of High School Boys(I don't know its Japanese title and I don't care about it either).

I have no idea why this show get lots of credits in popular sites such as Myanimelist and Anime News Network except it just a (rather bland) copy of Minami-ke and K-ON!, except not as good as both. It is pretty obvious that I isn't its target audience but at same time I also wonder why lots of men at my age like this show except they didn't saw anything quite like it. I have no idea why people say this show is funny but in fact its quite opposite, at least for me. I hate to say this but even the worst and most boring Crayon Shin-chan is many time funnier than the funniest episode of that show.

You can say I were biased and I'm not afraid to claim myself biased. What do you expect from a 27-years old man like me? That is not different to a 16-years old shoujo or yaoi fangirl towards ecchi and moe shows that intended for 20-something years old men.

....And Kimi to Boku too. That ****(was it censored) was even worse Daily Lives of High School Boys, not by much.
Wasn't the biggest point of Daily Lives of High School Boys and why it gets so much critical acclaim is to mock the exact shows you just compared it with? It's a mockery of a lot of High School anime tropes. If you took the show seriously, then you might have missed the point though I highly doubt you'd miss the point so maybe you're just trolling.

I mean seriously you compared this to K-ON. There's always a segment in Nichibros in which you would have girls do stuff Yui and co. would do, then turn it 180 and see how horrible women are.

If I were to insult Daily Lives of High School Boys then it would be that it isn't always consistently funny but to compare it to the exact thing that it mocks is just. . . troll

Meh opinions.
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Old 2012-04-16, 04:57   Link #1848
Kameruka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
Wasn't the biggest point of Daily Lives of High School Boys and why it gets so much critical acclaim is to mock the exact shows you just compared it with? It's a mockery of a lot of High School anime tropes. If you took the show seriously, then you might have missed the point though I highly doubt you'd miss the point so maybe you're just trolling.

I mean seriously you compared this to K-ON. There's always a segment in Nichibros in which you would have girls do stuff Yui and co. would do, then turn it 180 and see how horrible women are.

If I were to insult Daily Lives of High School Boys then it would be that it isn't always consistently funny but to compare it to the exact thing that it mocks is just. . . troll

Meh opinions.
Yeah anime fans are sexists, both male and female. They can label K-ON!, Hidamari Sketch, Manabi Straight, Zettai Karen Children, Nichijou, Taishou Yakyuu Musume, Minami-ke and some more as "otaku crap" and such but when it was replaced with boys instead of girls, people actually gave very different response.

In my opinion K-ON!, Hidamari Sketch, Lucky Star and Nichijou is actually mocking shoujo anime and manga rather than real-life women. Much like "Why don't you do something other than finding a perfect boyfriend?".
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:05   Link #1849
Akito Kinomoto
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Quote:
My argument never was a true adaptation would sell well. Otherwise almost every anime adaptation would have had decent sales.
My argument was the opposite, a not faithfull adaptation is less likely to sell well.
Eh, fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
So how many adaptations have you seen that had a bad horrible? Seeing that you still refuse to name some examples, i am still not convinced by your argument.
That, of course, should be left for each viewer to decide. Me naming examples of adaptations that I thought were bad because of the source material being bad would probably just incite someone to correct me.
Quote:
If you think logically, then you know that there are a huge ammount of mangas coming out every month. Most of them are big names like one piece, bleach etc. or had a bigger fanbase at that time like Hayate no Gotoku. So it had strong competiton from existing mangas, some of them already have an anime adaptation. Making it to the top 30 was not feasible.
If anything, your reply for why K-On! didn't break into the top 30 only affirms my other point on how the anime was responsible for making the series very popular instead of the manga which you seemingly objected to when you said it was already quite popular which turned out to be false. Taking into account how much the anime superseded the manga, being faithful to the source material becomes irrelevant (referencing back to when I said I don't find it productive making a sweeping statement that attributes the quantity of sales of any adaptation to being related, or unrelated, to the source material); if the source material itself was not able to make it into the top 30 against its competition until the adaptation bolstered it, then what little audience it must have had would be an insignificant loss anyway. In other words, faithful to the source material or not, the lofty profit K-On! made for KyoAni would hardly show any significant difference.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:16   Link #1850
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
Yeah anime fans are sexists, both male and female. They can label K-ON!, Hidamari Sketch, Manabi Straight, Zettai Karen Children, Nichijou, Taishou Yakyuu Musume, Minami-ke and some more as "otaku crap" and such but when it was replaced with boys instead of girls, people actually gave very different response.
You have not been browsing the actual thread so much then. People who liked Nichibros did or did not like any of the shows you listed. They have been able to take Nichibros for what it is, something between a slice of life and satire. They liked it not just because it replaced girls with guys. It's liked because it's not above being cruel to BOTH genders, it didn't put the guys on a piedestal, and neither it did with the girls. Something that somehow flew over your head and did not see because your mind is so set on " RRAAAAAAAR FUJOSHI!! RAAAAR SHOUJO FANS HATE HATE HATE HATE!!!*hiss hisss*" kind of mode. Something that you have been going on for a while and that I would suggest to tone the hell down. And I speak as one who would be the last to defend fujoshis, but I think someone need to call you out on that behavior of yours. Because it gets tiring to see it spilled all over the forums.
Quote:
In my opinion K-ON!, Hidamari Sketch, Lucky Star and Nichijou is actually mocking shoujo anime and manga rather than real-life women. Much like "Why don't you do something other than finding a perfect boyfriend?".
K-on, Hidamari are satire? You are just so stuck in this weird shoujo fans and manga hating that you are so desperate that you force yourself to see mockery of those in those anime that are anything but that.

Now, that's fucking rich.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:29   Link #1851
Kameruka
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And I speak as one who would be the last to defend fujoshis
That's fucking funny. Thanks.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:36   Link #1852
Sheba
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Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
That's fucking funny. Thanks.
Is that all you can come up with? Do you even read the whole message? I guess that's just letters that you cannot process in your brain. Or maybe it did not even leave your optic nerve. To the ignore list you go, I am done talking to you, since you have shown nothing worthwhile.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:36   Link #1853
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Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
Any bishounen fanservice shows like Kuroshitsuji and 07-Ghost. I'm a guy so what do you expect from me?
Man, bishounen plays a important part in modern shounen these days and you are obsessive with that hate.
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Old 2012-04-16, 05:37   Link #1854
Dhomochevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post
I shamelessly declare myself as a troll mentioning this show
You are doing it wrong!
You are not supposed to flat out tell them that.
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Old 2012-04-16, 21:09   Link #1855
Chiibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameruka View Post

You can say I were biased and I'm not afraid to claim myself biased. What do you expect from a 27-years old man like me? That is not different to a 16-years old shoujo or yaoi fangirl towards ecchi and moe shows that intended for 20-something years old men.
I may not be a very typical fangirl but I can tell you when I was a 16-year-old shoujo fangirl, I was watching ecchi and moe shows too and enjoying them immensely.
They were just so f*cking FUNNY!!
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Old 2012-04-17, 08:39   Link #1856
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Originally Posted by MisaoFan View Post
Man, bishounen plays a important part in modern shounen these days and you are obsessive with that hate.
While I don't speak for Kameruka but I think he just afraid when someday the shounen shows are no longer "shounen" anymore. Just my wild guess.
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Old 2012-04-17, 08:49   Link #1857
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Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
While I don't speak for Kameruka but I think he just afraid when someday the shounen shows are no longer "shounen" anymore. Just my wild guess.
You are right. If anything in the future, the next mainstream shounen shows are just full of nothing but bishounen fanservice that was taken from shoujo mangas and totally lack female department, despite the fact that female characters are still here and are still cute and attractive.
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Old 2012-04-17, 10:37   Link #1858
Ichuki
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Originally Posted by Fuyuno View Post
While I don't speak for Kameruka but I think he just afraid when someday the shounen shows are no longer "shounen" anymore. Just my wild guess.
I think that might happen since bishounen fanservice is becoming more popular these days
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Old 2012-04-17, 10:54   Link #1859
Sheba
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Tbh, bishounen have been existing for a while now. Saint Seiya is full of them, and Yuyu Hakusho have served us Kurama, Karasu and a lot of pretty boys I forgot. And Rurouni Kenshin's author complained in his author's notes that he was making too many pretty boys. You shounen enthusiasts should more worry about how manly macho muscle men like Raoh are rarer.
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Old 2012-04-17, 10:56   Link #1860
MisaoFan
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Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Tbh, bishounen have been existing for a while now. Saint Seiya is full of them, and Yuyu Hakusho have served us Kurama, Karasu and a lot of pretty boys I forgot. And Rurouni Kenshin's author complained in his author's notes that he was making too many pretty boys. You shounen enthusiasts should more worry about how manly macho muscle men like Raoh are rarer.
If the producers are gonna making more mainstream shounen shows with bishounen fanservice in the future like Black Butler, then only fujoshi should be served for this kind of shows.
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