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Old 2013-05-22, 15:14   Link #381
Spectacular_Insanity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The used game fee won't be an issue if Microsoft quickly moves to a mostly digital distribution model, but that's extremely radical for the console market. The only reason why I raise the possibility is that "account based" licensing for games was pretty radical on the PC at one time too. As I keep reminding people, gamers hated Steam when it first came out because of the DRM it imposed on boxed copies.
Assuming you never, ever want to rent a game or borrow a friend's before you decide whether or not to buy it.

It also gives a big middle finger to retailers. Gamestop primarily, plus any other retailer that sells games for that matter.

A digital distribution model will only work if everyone else does it, too. Otherwise people that prefer buying stuff from retailers (again, used games because they're cheaper), will simply not buy the XBOX One.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:21   Link #382
synaesthetic
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Gamestop deserves a middle finger. They are the only people actually profiting from used game sales.

If Gamestop took a percentage off the top of used game sales and gave that to the developers I don't think we'd be seeing so many draconian runs on the First Sale Doctrine.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:28   Link #383
T-6000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Another nail in the XBOX One's coffin (before it's even born, no less). Sony is promising to have indie development.

Why do I keep getting the feeling that roles have reversed? I used to feel that Microsoft actually cared about the hardcore gamers. Apparently that's no longer the case. I'm glad Sony is deciding to make the PS4 gamer-centric.

If BOTH Sony and Microsoft pulled this crap, we the consumers would be screwed.
If Sony play their cards right, they could have a considerable advantage with the upcoming next generation console. By not having restrictions to used games sales, making the PSN free, not requiring to go online, and giving Indie developers free reign (not to mention not requiring a Kinect to be....errr.....connected) the console could attract more customers (and maybe even divert some potential Xbox One customers to the PC) and thus have a considerably larger user base. And as we know with this generation, this could be a big advantage to either console manufacturer.

If more customers flock to the PS4 this could also be a good thing for me as a PC gamer. Or perhaps bad. The good part is that this could put the pressure on Microsoft to focus more on Windows as a Gaming platform (seriously, this is untapped territory that Sony hasn't focused on much, and thus a potential money maker for Microsoft!) and maybe bring some exclusives to Windows. But on the flipside of things, seeing more people flock to the PS4 could make Microsoft.....desperate. Very desperate. They could pressure (or even buy out) even more developers to make even more exclusives for the Xbox One in a desperate attempt to bring in a larger user base.

Of course, what will really happen we'll have to wait and see. It will be interesting to see how things will turn out.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:31   Link #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The used game fee won't be an issue if Microsoft quickly moves to a mostly digital distribution model, but that's extremely radical for the console market. The only reason why I raise the possibility is that "account based" licensing for games was pretty radical on the PC at one time too. As I keep reminding people, gamers hated Steam when it first came out because of the DRM it imposed on boxed copies.
I remember a lot of hate for steam back in the day because it was mostly crap. It was slow as molasses, unstable and would suck quite a bit of frames per second off the games. Oh and the pain it was to unlock HL2 with the servers completely overloaded.

There was however a bit of a hub-hub with lan play but Valve eventally fixed that with the offline mode and the cybercafé accounts.

And do people remember how many years it took until the friends feature actually worked?

PS: don't forget that Steam was replacing WON which also prevented a single cd-key from being used at more than one computer online.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:46   Link #385
Angelic Cross
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
If Gamestop took a percentage off the top of used game sales and gave that to the developers I don't think we'd be seeing so many draconian runs on the First Sale Doctrine.
What? So tell me, if you sell your used car, do you give a percentage back to the automakers too? Or if you sell your house, do you give a percentage back to the contractors who built it? No other industry does this. Look, Gamestop's got a shitty system, but why the hell should the video game industry be the special snowflake when it comes to resales of used items?
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:49   Link #386
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Well at any rate. Until they show off some juicy ingame footage for a new upcoming Halo game that impresses me, I probably won't be getting this for awhile.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:51   Link #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelic Cross View Post
What? So tell me, if you sell your used car, do you give a percentage back to the automakers too? Or if you sell your house, do you give a percentage back to the contractors who built it? No other industry does this. Look, Gamestop's got a shitty system, but why the hell should the video game industry be the special snowflake when it comes to resales of used items?
I'm not saying they should; I'm just saying it's a method Gamestop could use to prevent publishers and console makers from conspiring to make the sale of used games IMPOSSIBLE. Which they are trying their best to do.

Gamestop doesn't have the power console makers and big publishers like EA have; they can't defend against it if they go crazy-protectionist mode and make reselling video games completely impossible. They've already been trying to make it illegal (fortunately not successfully).

I'd much rather see Gamestop take a hit when it comes to profits by arranging to give some of the money back to the developers and publishers, than having it be completely impossible to sell a stack of console games on Craigslist because the new systems all have lockouts and DRM to totally prevent used games from functioning.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:56   Link #388
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There is hope: Hackers.

I dont doubt they will be able to arrange a method to install games in multiple xbox.
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Old 2013-05-22, 15:57   Link #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Assuming you never, ever want to rent a game or borrow a friend's before you decide whether or not to buy it.
Point. I'm PC only (time and money limits, especially the former) so that didn't come to mind for me.

A digital distribution model will only work if everyone else does it, too. Otherwise people that prefer buying stuff from retailers (again, used games because they're cheaper), will simply not buy the XBOX One.[/QUOTE]

It also occurs to me, when I think about it more, that digital distribution probably doesn't work well work for digital distribution because the condition of the used goods will always be "like new" because it isn't physical and push new prices down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
PS: don't forget that Steam was replacing WON which also prevented a single cd-key from being used at more than one computer online.
True, but I do remember some "on principle" complainants about having to activate single player games rather than simply being able to install at will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty_Harry View Post
I dont doubt they will be able to arrange a method to install games in multiple xbox.
Based on the clarifications from Microsoft installing on multiple Xbox won't be a problem. It's an account based license, the issue is installing it using a friend's account. (probably explains the 24 hour check in thing, they don't want accounts/games being used two places at once)
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:08   Link #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Based on the clarifications from Microsoft installing on multiple Xbox won't be a problem. It's an account based license, the issue is installing it using a friend's account. (probably explains the 24 hour check in thing, they don't want accounts/games being used two places at once)
But I think this barrier hackers will also overcome allowing install on any account.
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:15   Link #391
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I'm surprised you think Microsoft is going to permit any sort of hacking at all without consequences.
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:19   Link #392
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http://kotaku.com/heres-what-people-...-one-509246328

So Japan has plans to jump ship from Microsoft, and are coming up with clever insults to add more salt to the wounds. This Xbox One fiasco keeps getting more and more funny by the minute, seriously.

Oh well, as I say Dwarven Vow #5: The more you add, the worse it gets!
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:27   Link #393
Spectacular_Insanity
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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
I'm surprised you think Microsoft is going to permit any sort of hacking at all.
Speaking of hacking, how do you think people discovered on-disc locked content "DLC" that Capcom is guilty of? Capcom certainly didn't tell people about that in a press conference, I can assure you of that.

Again, I'm not so concerned about digital distribution (I do use Steam, after all), I'm concerned about having to always buy games new. Or I'd have to go to a friend's house that already owns it and play it there in order to try it (instead of just borrowing the disc). Quite the inconvenience, and frankly even that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't a blatant attempt to make people pay more money.

I don't get the "war on used games" spiel. They've already gotten the money from someone else buying that game. I don't see why they think that they would even have the right to charge another person extra for a product that they have paid for and thus rightfully own. It's like paying $40,000 for a used car then being told you have to pay another $15,000 to the original owner/dealership before you can receive the paperwork and keys for that car. It's ridiculous.
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:29   Link #394
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Oh, that's rich.

===

"Put together a presentation for gamers."

"Western internet forums are on fire. lol"

"I wonder how Americans are gaming at home. Whenever I'm playing a game, I never feel like I want to watch TV, so the ability to switch between the two makes no sense to me."


My answer to this one: games suck so much these days, such that I'd actually rather watch TV.

"Even if the functionality is increased, what you end up with is an old PC. It's okay they are putting effort into TV and video services. I don't need that, though, because I'm enjoying my PC gamer life."
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Old 2013-05-22, 17:16   Link #395
T-6000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarami View Post
http://kotaku.com/heres-what-people-...-one-509246328

So Japan has plans to jump ship from Microsoft, and are coming up with clever insults to add more salt to the wounds. This Xbox One fiasco keeps getting more and more funny by the minute, seriously.

Oh well, as I say Dwarven Vow #5: The more you add, the worse it gets!
"They [Microsoft] are not looking at Sony or Nintendo, but are frantically coming up with countermeasures for Apple and Google."

The Japanese person why stated this definitely has a point. It seems like that the XBox One is trying to be a sort of "Jack of All Trades" and a sort of counter to Google and Apple. The PS4, during it's presentation, came off as a console focusing mainly on games. It did have some social aspects, but those are optional. The Xbox One looked like it's trying to be too many things in an attempt to bring in some non-gamers. Hell, it looks like they're trying to bring in as many non-gamers as gamers.
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Old 2013-05-22, 17:36   Link #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
If you look at the chart there are two areas that are To Be Announced that could give the PS4 the ability to utterly crush the XBOX One in the upcoming console war.

Those are: Used Game Fee and Subscription Service. If those are No and Free respectively, it's no contest. Secondary concerns would be Mandatory Game Installs and Storage. If we have mandatory installation, they better give us lots of storage.

But if the PS4 is more in-line with the PS3 (i.e. free online subscriptions) than the XBOX One is with the XBOX 360, things are looking quite grim for Microsoft.

I'm still not happy about zero backwards compatibility for either. It's like both Sony and Microsoft are TRYING to piss gamers off. They're certainly on their way to fully succeeding with flying colors. Well, at least Sony is at least attempting to hide their corporate greed. Microsoft isn't even bothering to make the attempt.
Well, BC would make things more expensive and they would have to accommodate hardware/software in their new console to run with it. I do feel bad to those that don't have a PS3 or the such already and if the PS4 is their first console than they will miss out on good games from the PS3 unless they're resold for digital in the future,
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Old 2013-05-22, 17:55   Link #397
Sakuranbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarami View Post
http://kotaku.com/heres-what-people-...-one-509246328

So Japan has plans to jump ship from Microsoft, and are coming up with clever insults to add more salt to the wounds. This Xbox One fiasco keeps getting more and more funny by the minute, seriously.

Oh well, as I say Dwarven Vow #5: The more you add, the worse it gets!
I love the Kaz Hirai comments, who jokingly made a #dealwithit tweet in reference to Microsoft. But all in all everything I'm seeing is just cementing the fact that the PS4 is going to be the next-gen system for me.
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Old 2013-05-22, 19:30   Link #398
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Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
You can buy a $300 GPU that'll last you a good 4-5 years while still looking better than the consoles.
Who do you know that's still running a mid-range geforce 200 series or a radeon 4000 series these days?

Quote:
Why are you including the cost of monitors into the equation. You might as well add the price of a HDTV to the console then.
Because the guy included it in the equation, literally.

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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
My definition of high end is best bang for buck.
Then it's not high end, it's simply a cost-effective built. You don't see people who go out and buy a Camry for its combination of performance, mileage, and cost, and claim they just bought a Nissan GTR.

Quote:
The fact is is that this was for someone else and not me. I do not need 3 monitors but it doesn't change the fact that it's not that expensive when you look around. It's no more different than say going to Walmart or Bestbuy to find a good priced TV.
Yes, and like I said earlier, you'll end up with a bunch of TN-panel screens which have terrible color and viewing angles. And unless you're running 3x sub 20" screens (why bother?), you're going to spend at least over 100 on each of the monitors.

Quote:
As others have pointed out, technology becomes obselete very quickly as newer ones are always coming out so there's very little reason to spend over $150 for a new GPU card. There are always deals lying around that you can take advantage of.
Feel free to go for a 650/660 Ti level card if you feel that's what you want, just don't try to claim a system running those as "high end"

Quote:
I mean do you really need to spend $5000 on a GPU card? No you don't because as VCV pointed out most games will never reach that level. Plus do you need to keep everything on Ultra? No you don't as most wouldn't even notice the difference.
5000? no, 500? if it's good enough to justify the cost. And yes, it IS needed, my GTX580 gets pushed and strained all the time these days, and don't presume to tell me what i can and can't see.

Quote:
Like I said you don't need to spend that much on a GPU unless you have tons of money to spend and very picky. I'm not as I'm content with most settings on normal.

For me, as long as the game runs decent that's good enough for me.
Great, and that's perfectly fine. The only issue I take is your attempt to put the 'high end' label on those systems, they're not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
I'm not saying they should; I'm just saying it's a method Gamestop could use to prevent publishers and console makers from conspiring to make the sale of used games IMPOSSIBLE. Which they are trying their best to do.
That'd just be giving into blackmail. Imagine if automakers threatened to make it so every driver who is not the original purchaser of the car have to pay a fee before they drive it. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying that used car dealers need to give a cut of their profit back to the automaker so they don't go down that route.

Not to mention where does that leave the right of the consumers?
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Old 2013-05-22, 19:35   Link #399
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http://www.destructoid.com/devs-expr...r-254326.phtml

Devs seem pretty worried about X1.
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Old 2013-05-22, 19:38   Link #400
Kirito
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http://www.joystiq.com/2013/05/22/mi...will-work-wit/

That's fine and good, but what about the fighting game fans? If you're a fighting game fan I hate to say it, but it looks like fight sticks will most likely be useless on this console next gen. Whether they plan to make sticks next gen, but for now stick users future on the Xbox One looks pretty grim at the moment.
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