AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Games

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-05-24, 00:00   Link #481
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
Which was then denied by other MS sources. It would be nice if they could get their story straight though.
It was not "denied', they backpedaled and called it "potential scenarios". Note that they didn't say "No, there is no daily-on DRM, or no, there is no used game fee", all they've said since backpedaling are corporate double speak that doesn't mean jack shit.


Quote:
A lot of people don't have gaming PCs, else consoles wouldn't be selling at all. Which goes back to the point that the PS4 and Xbox will likely be better gaming devices for a lot of people doesn't it?
False dichotomy, having one doesn't prevent the other. I have gaming PCs and consoles, the two caters to somewhat different demographics, but there is a lot of overlap as well.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:08   Link #482
Urzu 7
Juanita/Kiteless
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
It was not "denied', they backpedaled and called it "potential scenarios". Note that they didn't say "No, there is no daily-on DRM, or no, there is no used game fee", all they've said since backpedaling are corporate double speak that doesn't mean jack shit.
Yeah, Kyp is right. They are backpedaling and said that PR b.s. "potential scenarios". But it isn't really potential scenarios for MS right now. All those things that people hate about XBO, MS really want to be aspects of XBO. MS doesn't want to go back on them. MS wants things like 24 hour logins with the system and used game fees, or having the Kinect always connected and always on, despite seeing that so many people hate those things.

They are backpedaling now, but MS wants all these things that people are citing in this huge backlash against XBO.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic38963_5.gif
Urzu 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:09   Link #483
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
Which was then denied by other MS sources. It would be nice if they could get their story straight though.

So if the executives themselves don't know what the machine can or can't do, that speaks volumes about their company.

And no, it's not "can't get their story straight", it's obviously damage control from the shitstorm hitting them hard.
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:19   Link #484
problemedchild
_
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
False dichotomy, having one doesn't prevent the other. I have gaming PCs and consoles, the two caters to somewhat different demographics, but there is a lot of overlap as well.
Just because you have the disposable income and are willing to buy multiple gaming devices does not mean everyone will. The amount of overlap according to this Nielsen report is only 30% and that statistic is greatly inflated by tablets/phones. Say what you must, but people owning a gaming PC + consoles are not the majority, they're the minority.
problemedchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:30   Link #485
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
Which was then denied by other MS sources. It would be nice if they could get their story straight though.
Nothing they've said is inconsistent with a steam style account-based license system, and most of what they've said points to that.

The up in the air part is what their mechanism for used games is since they say they have one. Realistically though, I think we can assume that the retailer will be taking a cut from the sale of the physical game and Microsoft will be taking a cut from the transfer of the license - and that means a smaller cut for the consumer.

That's the main thing that differentiates this from Valve requiring people to link their boxed copies of Half Life 2 to their steam accounts in order to play back in 2004. That generated a lot of rage - I was a hardcore PC gamer at the time so I remember - but because few PC gamers resold games, the activation scheme didn't really change the economics of the game. And everyone wanted to play Half Life 2. That got people into the Steam system, which eventually really took off when it became cheaper and easier to get PC games that way.

Microsoft isn't going to get to pull off that kind of trojan horse strategy. They need to convince people to drop $400+ on the console up front.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:38   Link #486
Tong
Now, come at me
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 2014 World cup hoster
Age: 23
Send a message via MSN to Tong Send a message via Skype™ to Tong
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
Just because you have the disposable income and are willing to buy multiple gaming devices does not mean everyone will. The amount of overlap according to this Nielsen report is only 30% and that statistic is greatly inflated by tablets/phones. Say what you must, but people owning a gaming PC + consoles are not the majority, they're the minority.
You're a few years late, otherwise that would be true.
And it's all about users priorities either way, so you can't just generalize and say that only X group will get a console because of Y reason.

The point here is that XBONE is a disvantageous choice for both Console (tries to be a PC with none of the benefits) and PC gamers (no reason to get one at all) alike.
__________________
Tong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:40   Link #487
Urzu 7
Juanita/Kiteless
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
Just because you have the disposable income and are willing to buy multiple gaming devices does not mean everyone will. The amount of overlap according to this Nielsen report is only 30% and that statistic is greatly inflated by tablets/phones. Say what you must, but people owning a gaming PC + consoles are not the majority, they're the minority.
A lot of consumers don't end up with more than one console or a console or consoles plus a gaming PC. However, very many gamers who have more enthusiasm for gaming than casuals have more than one gaming platform, whether it be two or more consoles, a gaming PC and other platforms, or one or more handheld devices along with a console or consoles and/or a gaming PC.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic38963_5.gif
Urzu 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:42   Link #488
problemedchild
_
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
Nothing they've said is inconsistent with a steam style account-based license system, and most of what they've said points to that.

The up in the air part is what their mechanism for used games is since they say they have one. Realistically though, I think we can assume that the retailer will be taking a cut from the sale of the physical game and Microsoft will be taking a cut from the transfer of the license - and that means a smaller cut for the consumer
That's what I'm thinking as well. It's obviously not the most consumer friendly system out there, but it's possible that used game royalty could draw in developers currently unhappy about the used games market. Which is what I'm thinking MS is banking on.
problemedchild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:44   Link #489
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
It's rather comical watching people gushing about how amazing Steam is and while mocking Microsoft's rumored used game policy.
People don't expect to resell things that are digitally distributed. That's because there's nothing tangible (i.e. "physical media") to sell. It's also because digital distribution is a bit of a new frontier, so people are naturally willing to have new standards set for it.

With tangible products, people expect to be able to resell them, because that's how tangible products have operated throughout the entire history of human civilization. There's no compelling reason (especially from a customer perspective) for this to be different for "hard copy" video games.


There's also the fact that Steam has a vast gaming library, and often makes good on the ideal of digital distribution being cheaper than the hard copy alternative.

If Microsoft came out and said "Yes, you can't resell your XBox One games, but in return for that, all of our games will cost 25% less than comparable XBox 360 games" then people might consider that a reasonable trade-off. But there's no trade-off here. It's just limiting the customer's options without giving him/her anything in return. So of course it's getting a massive backlash.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:53   Link #490
kyp275
ZA ZOMBIE!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Somewhere in the EVE cluster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
That's what I'm thinking as well. It's obviously not the most consumer friendly system out there, but it's possible that used game royalty could draw in developers currently unhappy about the used games market. Which is what I'm thinking MS is banking on.
What developer? the ones that incessantly whines about the used game market after taking a page from the MPAA/RIAA handbook are the large studios that will be developing games for the major systems anyway.

Meanwhile they've already said that indie support on the X-1 is going to be the same as it was on X360, which is the equivalent of shitting on top of small devs, and then force feed them said shit.
kyp275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 00:55   Link #491
Urzu 7
Juanita/Kiteless
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
That's what I'm thinking as well. It's obviously not the most consumer friendly system out there, but it's possible that used game royalty could draw in developers currently unhappy about the used games market. Which is what I'm thinking MS is banking on.
This is absolutely why MS is doing what they are doing with used game fees. Video game publishers don't like second hand sales on consoles and MS wants to please them so that publishers will go crazy for XBO. However, very many gamers are hating what MS wants to do with blocking used games. Like Triple R just said, with Steam, it is digital distribution, so it is pretty different, but with XBO, you will buy a physical hard copy of a game at full price ($60), and then you have to punch in a license key for every new game you get and then it is mandatory that you install all your games (so for one, this takes away the "pick up and play" aspect that is great about consoles), and then with your physical copy of a game, reselling it is blocked. Basically, once you buy a game disc at full price and install it, your disc is a coaster or frisbee.

XBO is too restrictive on consumers and it takes a bunch of bad things from PC gaming while not adding the great things of PC gaming. XBO isn't even a "video game console", either. It is a stripped down PC for your living room.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic38963_5.gif
Urzu 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 01:08   Link #492
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
This is absolutely why MS is doing what they are doing with used game fees. Video game publishers don't like second hand sales on consoles and MS wants to please them so that publishers will go crazy for XBO. However, very many gamers are hating what MS wants to do with blocking used games. Like Triple R just said, with Steam, it is digital distribution, so it is pretty different, but with XBO, you will buy a physical hard copy of a game at full price ($60), and then you have to punch in a license key for every new game you get and then it is mandatory that you install all your games (so for one, this takes away the "pick up and play" aspect that is great about consoles), and then with your physical copy of a game, reselling it is blocked. Basically, once you buy a game disc at full price and install it, your disc is a coaster or frisbee.

XBO is too restrictive on consumers and it takes a bunch of bad things from PC gaming while not adding the great things of PC gaming. XBO isn't even a "video game console", either. It is a stripped down PC for your living room.
Exactly. From a customer perspective, it's the worst of both worlds.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 01:09   Link #493
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
There's also the fact that Steam has a vast gaming library, and often makes good on the ideal of digital distribution being cheaper than the hard copy alternative.
Steam is also mainly a PC distribution platform. The used game market for PC games was weak even when the platform launched in 2004. If the game was multiplayer and used CD keys, you never had a guarantee that you wouldn't get a "cd key in use" error when you tried to take your used game online. And Steam is actually less restrictive than some of the bullshit DRM schemes PC gamers have had to content with over the years.

Quote:
If Microsoft came out and said "Yes, you can't resell your XBox One games, but in return for that, all of our games will cost 25% less than comparable XBox 360 games" then people might consider that a reasonable trade-off. But there's no trade-off here. It's just limiting the customer's options without giving him/her anything in return. So of course it's getting a massive backlash.
The fact they're planning to take a cut of used game sales at all makes it pretty clear that the customer will be taking it hit because that money has to come from somewhere. Though the "end of used games" theatrics some people are pulling are kind of over the top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
(so for one, this takes away the "pick up and play" aspect that is great about consoles)
I thought the need to patch your games had kind of killed this aspect of console gaming to begin with. At least for online games.
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 01:15   Link #494
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
The fact they're planning to take a cut of used game sales at all makes it pretty clear that the customer will be taking it hit because that money has to come from somewhere.
So they're basically offering the customer a worse deal than they did with the XBox 360.

Why would anybody be surprised at the backlash? The fact that the gaming media are upset at that backlash, and trying to talk customers into being happy about what Microsoft is doing, is frankly laughable.

Customers expect products to get better over time, if anything, not worse.
__________________
Triple_R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 01:23   Link #495
Urzu 7
Juanita/Kiteless
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post

I thought the need to patch your games had kind of killed this aspect of console gaming to begin with. At least for online games.
It is pretty bad with some devs. They feel that they don't have to delay games as much now. If they are trying to get a game out for a deadline, they can release a game with questionable quality and then they will just patch the crap out of the game down the line.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic38963_5.gif
Urzu 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 02:41   Link #496
Kyuu
=^^=
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42 10' N (Latitude) 87 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 35
Quote:
Wii U Sales Rank On Amazon UK Jumps 875 Percent After Xbox One Reveal
http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/24...ox-one-reveal/

LOL.

So, I guess it seems... many people were waiting on the new XBox to decide upon the next console system to buy.

Kyuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 02:45   Link #497
Angelic Cross
Soul-eating Librarian
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Within the stacks. . .waiting to devour you. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
The fact that the gaming media are upset at that backlash, and trying to talk customers into being happy about what Microsoft is doing, is frankly laughable.
I can't say I'm surprised at the corporate apologists in games journalism. Because, hey, consumer rights and one's integrity is a small price to pay for that exclusive access to the latest info, right?
Angelic Cross is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 02:57   Link #498
Chaos2Frozen
"Where mah Justice go?!"
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Asylum beyond the Mirror
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Why would anybody be surprised at the backlash? The fact that the gaming media are upset at that backlash, and trying to talk customers into being happy about what Microsoft is doing, is frankly laughable.
It's been like this ever since... Mass Effect 3?

It continues to DmC and now the new Xbox.

I'm surprised Aliens wasn't under their white knight protection as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/24...ox-one-reveal/

LOL.

So, I guess it seems... many people were waiting on the new XBox to decide upon the next console system to buy.

Christmas came early for Nintendo as well I see
__________________
Chaos2Frozen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 03:52   Link #499
Sides
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 32
Xbone release of Deep Down not certain, source gematsu.com
I don't think it is a big deal, since even if they have a xbone version in the making, they are probably not allowed to release any information, due to NDAs.
However would be interesting to see how other japanese publishers react to the xbone.
Sides is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-24, 08:38   Link #500
amaterasu4
CAUSE I FEEEEEEEEEEEEEL!!
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Shame Car
Video game developers are disappointed too.
http://www.destructoid.com/devs-expr...r-254326.phtml

Tommy Refenes, co-creator of Super Meat Boy. made a good one: "So as someone who doesn't play Forza or any EA Sports game and already has a computer hooked to my TV, what does Xbox One offer me?"
amaterasu4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:18.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.