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Old 2013-06-13, 22:14   Link #1361
Nightengale
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PSN did game sharing first. With 5 people.

It got cut to 2.

I wonder why...
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:16   Link #1362
takai
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And that's why it won't likely happen.
Microsoft has already announced it, so it's going to regardless.
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:19   Link #1363
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takai View Post
Spoiler:
If this is true, it can't even be call sharing anymore. The "family" member pretty owns it. Seems too good to be true.

There must be a catch that Microsoft isn't revealing. Taking the policy above and the comments at face value, I don't see how games sales would not go down when people can just leech off a friend's shared game library instead of buying a new copy of a game.


http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mis...any-ten-people

Last edited by Sassarai; 2013-06-13 at 22:54.
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:25   Link #1364
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by takai View Post
Microsoft has already announced it, so it's going to regardless.
Fine print is important when it comes to these things.

Publisher opt-in?
10 or 'up to 10'?
Commitment that it'll stay that way.

These features already existed for PSP and PS3, but it was dumbed down within a few years.
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:26   Link #1365
Triple_R
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In fairness to takai, that is a nice feature. It would represent Microsoft offering at least something to customers in return for what customers are being asked to sacrificed. So at least it's a step towards a more equitable "trade-off" approach.

That being said, implying that gamers who share their games through loaning out physical copies are living in "the dark ages" is pretty snarky and condescending. I've been content with it all my life - Both as the loaner and the person getting the loan. Something being non-digital does not mean its necessarily bad or outdated.
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Old 2013-06-13, 22:36   Link #1366
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takai View Post
Microsoft has already announced it, so it's going to regardless.
Is this your first time on the internet? There are many thing that have been announced and never got implemented as what people expected.

But sure, people could just be optimist all they want. I'm waiting to see the result, because clearly MS is turning around 180 degrees to the publishers.
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Old 2013-06-13, 23:01   Link #1367
takai
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Is this your first time on the internet? There are many thing that have been announced and never got implemented as what people expected.

But sure, people could just be optimist all they want. I'm waiting to see the result, because clearly MS is turning around 180 degrees to the publishers.
You spent so much time contemplating insults I guess you didn't read all of my posts. I've already predicted that it could possibly be game specific. I'm still awaiting more news before I start banking on it however. I've just been reporting the news that's been released so far, and what they've said sounds like a real game changer considering all this DRM news. So stay mad I guess?
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Old 2013-06-13, 23:12   Link #1368
Nightengale
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Digital gamesharing has always been an interesting and potentially game changing feature.

The problem is that its an extremely sensitive feature to promote.

I've never seen Sony ever making any attempt to market PSN digital sharing. It was a great feature, but so understated and only came to more spotlight when it was reduced.

Even Microsoft is clearly postioning this as a family play. They don't want this tone associated with friends sharing.If not for all these controversy, I highly doubt eyes would on-record to come out and say it doesn't have to be family..
Even though it's promoted as one.
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Old 2013-06-13, 23:18   Link #1369
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takai View Post
I've just been reporting the news that's been released so far, and what they've said sounds like a real game changer considering all this DRM news. So stay mad I guess?
Because Sony hasn't been doing that?

I guess that Dark Age sharing isn't insult, then. And I have the right to stay mad, because I belong to the countries group that MS decides to abandon. I guess to you it's not a problem, because people who are in the warm place shouldn't bother with those who are thrown out in the cold.
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Old 2013-06-14, 00:12   Link #1370
CJ_Walker
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
The gaming industry at large has been engaging in this behavior recently.

The abandoned customers are us... oldschool, long-time gamers, the ones in our thirties, forties and fifties. The ones who expect games to be good, to be labors of love by their developers who forsook higher-paying jobs in the business or application software market to work on sweet, sweet games.

Those of us who remember floppy diskettes, who remember the screeching sound a modem made when connecting to the internet over a phone line, who remember the dot-com bubble and DOOM and Wolfenstein 3D and The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall.

We grew up in a gaming environment in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s, before gaming was really mainstream, when it was almost entirely about love of the craft. We got used to big boxes and new games costing $49.95 at launch, and maybe if the game was really popular we'd see an expansion pack or two for 20-30 bucks. We've got high standards and low tolerance for failure--if a game sucks, we say it sucks and we don't buy it. We scratch our heads and wonder what on earth they were thinking when they tack multiplayer XBL modes onto every game imaginable (even if multiplayer makes no sense).

We remember the good ol' days of subscription-based MMOs like Ultima Online, EverQuest and Final Fantasy XI. We remember the keepers of our favorite games engaging us, busting their ass trying to win our loyalty. We made our favorites and stuck with them for years and years, a mutually-beneficial relationship.

We're being abandoned in favor of the new generation of "gimme kids" who whine and whine about wanting to have everything now, now, NOW, and will happily fork out dollar after dollar for DLC, cash shop microtransactions on top of $60 game prices.

We're being abandoned in favor of the gullible, easy-to-please, easy-to-fleece "F2P kiddie" who would gladly play a broken, horribly imbalanced pile of shit that the developers rarely touch or even patch for bugfixes than pay a subscription fee... despite the fact that they spend more in the fucking cash shop than they ever would on years of subscribing!

We're being abandoned in favor of the new generation of gamers, the "fast food gamers" who, in their innocent naivete, accept the lubeless ass-reaming the video game industry administers unto them and beg for more.

And these are the kinds of people who will be buying the xbone.
This is why I'm a PC gamer.

I plan on leaving the country again soon so there's no way that Ill be buying Xbone.

I mostly play league of legends on my pc and while yes they have microtransactions, you can just buy what you need for the same price that you would a game in the 90's and early 2000's and pretty much be set (as you can "buy" everything else from just playing the game) They balance and patch the game constantly, and actually have their main devs communicate with the players on their forums.

There's a reason why its the most played game on the planet.

For PC games I played mass effect I and II, and other games I dont remember the name of. I may try to get a PS4 later (I skipped the PS3) but that's probably all I'm going to get.
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Old 2013-06-14, 00:32   Link #1371
Urzu 7
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So did MS make lending and borrowing games better? As far as we can tell, at least. There may be catches. I know some of the details. Something about lending up to 10 people under certain conditions.
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Old 2013-06-14, 01:16   Link #1372
Jazzrat
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I don't really miss the old age of gaming. Big boxes are dust magnets and are a pain to keep. Dicking around with my mem setting on my IBM was a pain in the ass just play games. F2P? sure, I don't have to pay for shitty games just to try them out. Floppy disc? CD technology was a god send after having my games corrupted because floppy disc was unreliable and tends to wear out quickly.

While nostalgic to think back of my days of camping out in spawn camps & grinding away at mobs to hit max level on DAoC, it's something I'll never do nowdays because it's just takes too much time that i don't have these days and it was fucking boring.
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Old 2013-06-14, 01:30   Link #1373
synaesthetic
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They just changed the grind from grinding mobs with your friends to grinding mobs on your own, since grouping while quest-grinding makes you take an XP hit...

So yeah. Not seeing the improvement, really.
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Old 2013-06-14, 01:39   Link #1374
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
They just changed the grind from grinding mobs with your friends to grinding mobs on your own, since grouping while quest-grinding makes you take an XP hit...

So yeah. Not seeing the improvement, really.
People that complain about grind shouldn't be playing mmorpgs to begin with anyways. There's no way a mmo can keep up with the content demand.
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Old 2013-06-14, 02:37   Link #1375
synaesthetic
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
People that complain about grind shouldn't be playing mmorpgs to begin with anyways. There's no way a mmo can keep up with the content demand.
No, but there are a lot of ways designers can make the grind enjoyable. This is something a lot of MMOs fail at because they seem to isolate the player through systems that punish being gregarious. This is apparently a knee-jerk reaction to first- and second-generation MMOs that essentially required a group to do anything, and now the newest generations of MMOs actually seem to glorify solo play. In a genre specifically intended for multiple players. Insanity.

The thing is, MMO designers keep thinking "negative reinforcement" instead of "positive reinforcement." Most systems in most MMOs are designed to waste your time in a way that demoralizes you--this should be the opposite. They should waste your time while putting a smile on your face--isn't that the entire point of gaming?

If you group with friends to grind quests, you shouldn't lose XP from kills--it should be the same, regardless of the size of your party. Gives you incentive to group up, while not punishing the solo types.
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Old 2013-06-14, 02:53   Link #1376
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
\

The thing is, MMO designers keep thinking "negative reinforcement" instead of "positive reinforcement." Most systems in most MMOs are designed to waste your time in a way that demoralizes you--this should be the opposite. They should waste your time while putting a smile on your face--isn't that the entire point of gaming?
I don't know, getting hand outs after hand outs doesn't really put a smile on my face. Like giving me xp for just finding an area which is pretty linear to reach doesn't put a smile to my face. Then you have games that give you loot upgrades every 10 minute or so which makes them feel like they are nothing special. Somewhere in between would be best for me. Definitely can't do games like FFXI the early years again and definitely don't like all the new cookie cutter mmo types.
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Old 2013-06-14, 03:01   Link #1377
synaesthetic
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Feeding you constant streams of loot and XP isn't reinforcement; you just get jaded to it all. But this is off-topic.
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Old 2013-06-14, 03:04   Link #1378
majestix1988
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always online policy will backfire on the future for gamers who like old games or anythiin(if you remember teh original xbox now its not supported by Live) if you think of this...all of your xbox one games will not playable if MS shutdown support for xboxone all of your current games will be regarded as "non-playable"(+ MS will do this insert that xbox one game to the new xbox(with no Backward) then pay another "fricking fee" on that old game to download (with 50% off or something)


its my speculations...
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Old 2013-06-14, 03:46   Link #1379
kenjiharima
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/14/44...rted-countries

Unsupported in other countries.
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Old 2013-06-14, 07:34   Link #1380
GDB
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Originally Posted by takai View Post
Microsoft has already announced it, so it's going to regardless.
Put together the conversation, not just the most recent thing said. My original point is that publishers decide whether to allow it or not, and almost surely won't. You said you'll be optimistic because it'll save you money, which is why I said it won't happen. Not that the feature won't exist, but that publishers will not allow it. The whole DRM thing in the first place is because they believe, for some reason, that used game sales decrease profits. So why would they allow literal cross-country sharing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
In fairness to takai, that is a nice feature. It would represent Microsoft offering at least something to customers in return for what customers are being asked to sacrificed. So at least it's a step towards a more equitable "trade-off" approach.
Yet, despite all the backlash they've been taking for their policies, they never thought it'd be a good idea to make this a key note in any presentation. Why is that? There's definitely something about it that they don't want people to look further into, even if it's just that they don't want people doing it like how Sony doesn't make a big deal out of theirs.
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