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Old 2013-06-20, 09:26   Link #1661
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Wait, then what happens with the power of the cloud now?
The "power of the cloud" never made any sense. You can use it to store files (like the idea of streaming PS3 games on PS4), but using it to increase processing power is impractical.

Hypothetically, having a computer in a server doing calculations for your console, could mean the end result of the console having greater processing power than it actually possesses. However, in reality the game company isn't going to dedicate a computer's worth of processing power for each and every playing customer; when you have potentially a million players, you know it just isn't going to happen.

The Cloud allows data sharing, and file transfer. That's what it is used for already. But making your console more powerful? Not going to happen.
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:31   Link #1662
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The "power of the cloud" never made any sense. You can use it to store files (like the idea of streaming PS3 games on PS4), but using it to increase processing power is impractical.

Hypothetically, having a computer in a server doing calculations for your console, could mean the end result of the console having greater processing power than it actually possesses. However, in reality the game company isn't going to dedicate a computer's worth of processing power for each and every playing customer; when you have potentially a million players, you know it just isn't going to happen.

The Cloud allows data sharing, and file transfer. That's what it is used for already. But making your console more powerful? Not going to happen.
This was how the Titanfall devs explained it:

Their game offloads parts of AI/bots calculation onto the cloud.
The 'cloud' will recognise in what regions/country is the game being played on.
The 'processing' is then done in one of MS's many datacenters nearest to the region, which will then apparently create a virtual server to process that AI.
Process goes back to the game.
Because the processing is done at a nearby server, there's minimal lag.

Basically, MS's cloud advantage is the 'scale' of their servers around the world, and the ability to tap into them across all regions, reducing lag time.

Nothing magical, just lag reduction thanks to geographical advantages.
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:31   Link #1663
Sakuranbo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
But I don't see how that'd make people foolish for ripping the DRM policies, or having to eat their own words for saying they wouldn't buy one when they were saying such because of the DRM policies. With those policies no longer in effect, there's no reason that they'd look foolish for buying one if they so choose. In fact, they'd be able to puff out their chest a bit for thinking they contributed to removing said policies.
I'm just going to agree with you, I jumbled up my wording -- anyway you worded it better yea, so moving on now?


I wonder if the revised XB1 will still require monthly/yearly gold subscriptions or if that was just part of the original DRM/strict sharing policies OR if that's the whole point of "the power of the cloud" (keep paying to keep it going)?
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:36   Link #1664
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
This was how the Titanfall devs explained it:

Their game offloads parts of AI/bots calculation onto the cloud.
The 'cloud' will recognise in what regions/country is the game being played on.
The 'processing' is then done in one of MS's many datacenters nearest to the region, which will then apparently create a virtual server to process that AI.
Process goes back to the game.
Because the processing is done at a nearby server, there's minimal lag.

Basically, MS's cloud advantage is the 'scale' of their servers around the world, and the ability to tap into them across all regions, reducing lag time.

Nothing magical, just lag reduction thanks to geographical advantages.
I still think this would cause problems if Titanfall ever took off. I just think they are assuming a certain number of players at any one time, and if they become too successful it would cause issues. I am not worried about lag, but the assumption that there is enough processing power for every single match being played.
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Old 2013-06-20, 09:44   Link #1665
Nightengale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I still think this would cause problems if Titanfall ever took off.
I really liked what I saw of Titanfall, but part of me really wonders if it's got what it takes to 'really' take off.

No doubt it'll sell a lot, but MS seems to be under this assumption that Titanfall will be a huge system mover for XB1 come its launch...

... It's launching for the PC for X360, both with many many millions of install base.

MAJORITY of the gamers do not buy consoles just for one game, especially if it's yet to develop a huge fanbase like Halo. I can see majority of the players going to just buy the 360 or PC versions.

And this is just a personal thing, but the fact that it has no single-player mode really riffs me. To me, part of building a strong title and franchise is building the narrative of the setting, and Titanfall's relying entirely on... multi-player FPS to do that.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:11   Link #1666
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
This was how the Titanfall devs explained it:

Their game offloads parts of AI/bots calculation onto the cloud.
The 'cloud' will recognise in what regions/country is the game being played on.
The 'processing' is then done in one of MS's many datacenters nearest to the region, which will then apparently create a virtual server to process that AI.
Process goes back to the game.
Because the processing is done at a nearby server, there's minimal lag.

Basically, MS's cloud advantage is the 'scale' of their servers around the world, and the ability to tap into them across all regions, reducing lag time.

Nothing magical, just lag reduction thanks to geographical advantages.
This really does make me wonder how this is supposed to be compatible with the Xboxone being playable offline. If they DO actually use the cloud to do computational stuff like that, I get the feeling that certain Xboxone games won't work offline.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:14   Link #1667
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
This really does make me wonder how this is supposed to be compatible with the Xboxone being playable offline. If they DO actually use the cloud to do computational stuff like that, I get the feeling that certain Xboxone games won't work offline.
Multiplayer games are generally not considered offline games these days, only Nintendo do split screen much as of late.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:21   Link #1668
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Multiplayer games are generally not considered offline games these days, only Nintendo do split screen much as of late.
Considering Halo's multiplayer origins being split screen lan parties, I certainly hope they don't cut that from Halo 5.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:22   Link #1669
Nightengale
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http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

If this is real, then the family game sharing is a 'time-restricted limited-attempt demo only.'

Yes, the touted, holy grail of the XB1 family sharing plan.. ( if real ) is a DEMO sharing feature.

Basically, you're allowed to 'play for an hour, then prompted to buy the game.'

If real, fuck you Microsoft.
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Old 2013-06-20, 10:28   Link #1670
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

If this is real, then the family game sharing is a 'time-restricted limited-attempt demo only.'

Yes, the touted, holy grail of the XB1 family sharing plan.. ( if real ) is a DEMO sharing feature.

Basically, you're allowed to 'play for an hour, then prompted to buy the game.'

If real, fuck you Microsoft.
Doesn't that sound like a feature from PS+? The one allows you to play a full game for 1 hour then prompt you to buy the game. I'm not sure even Microsoft will sugarcoat such feature into "family sharing plan" as they said.

Well, no one knows what is the truth now, as the plan is taken down already.
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Old 2013-06-20, 11:19   Link #1671
4Tran
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Dropping DRM has increased the Xbone's long term viability, but the debacle has done intractable damage and Sony looks to be solidly in the lead. The biggest differences are that people who have wouldn't have looked at the PS4 to begin with have started doing so (mindshare), and that a lot of early adopters have already placed pre-orders for PS4 and they're not coming back. Compound these with Microsoft's supply issues and higher price, and Redmond has a lot of problems to deal with. To top it off, the same people in charge of Xbox two days ago are still in charge today. They've only been able to generate anti-PR to date, and that's going to take a long time to fix.

I think that the most optimistic forecast for Microsoft right now would be to draw even in the U.S., be competitive in the UK and Canada, and be obliterated in the rest of the World. It's not great, but it's still better than what it was looking like before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarami View Post
Xbox One Slim sounds likely but I still have doubts that they won't remove the Kinect because the concept of the console sort of is built to support it in its entirety. Which is dumb because it's a useless tool anyway, I don't know about most Xbox supporters, but it just doesn't sit well with me.
I'm pretty sure that Kinect and TV integration is more important to Microsoft's vision of the Xbone than the game-playing component. What this means is that even if Kinect doesn't have any real game use application, it'll still be touted as part of the complete package. We've already seen Microsoft dismantle a large portion of their vision; if they de-bundle Kinect, then we'll know that they've given up on it altogether.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaito-kid View Post
Yeah I understand that, but I was just wondering HOW this was supposed to work.

And also, It actually sounds like a bad deal for the developers and publishers, as less people would have had to buy the actual game If you could share a game with 10 people and if two people could play a game at the same time. I'm sure a lot of their partners would have left them if this happened... It would have been a sweet deal for the consumers though. It might have even justified the extra 100 dollars.
It was never going to work as advertised because the publishers would have turned on Microsoft. In fact, I have a feeling that they did just that, and that this factored into Microsoft's decision to toss all of its policies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
As am I. Note that Microsoft only reversed gears after E3, and yet claim that "our feedback matters." They had our feedback. They had it looong before E3. And yet it wasn't until after E3, after their competitors were butchering them and kept kicking them while they were down gaining free PR with each kick that they pulled their 180.

It wasn't until they realized that they were actually going to massively crush their own sales that they reversed gears.

Microsoft changed their stance, but it wasn't for us.
It was totally about the consumers, but I think that the decision was made more on the basis of consumer spending than any amount of messages on the internet. The publishers and retailers turning on Microsoft probably played a big factor as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Yeah, that's the difference. MS kept using marketing double-speak to force what they want through, thinking they don't really have to care about "customers", who are just people who give them money for no reason.

Sony at least take it upon themselves to try and sell their product to the customers. MS was trying to sell their product to Publishers instead.

Then the MS customers got mad, and the Publishers fled, blaming Microsoft for everything.

You can probably make a gripping TV-movie about the behind the scenes events in the time between the Adam Orth tweets and yesterday.
I look forward to reading the book in 5-7 years time. I wonder how much Microsoft has lost on this project already - I'm guessing about $500 million. It also looks like I was right about how scared Microsoft has sounded over the last few days.
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Old 2013-06-20, 11:27   Link #1672
Freeter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
http://pastebin.com/TE1MWES2

If this is real, then the family game sharing is a 'time-restricted limited-attempt demo only.'
Like Angry Joe said in his rant, "every feature is a restriction". Guess someone forgot to relay that to MS

Can't wait to see what his reaction will be to all this. I also hope that article is real, just to pour more salt on the wound to the protestors who wanted that feature not realizing what it truly was
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Old 2013-06-20, 11:57   Link #1673
blakstealth
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Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Considering Halo's multiplayer origins being split screen lan parties, I certainly hope they don't cut that from Halo 5.
They better not lol.
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Old 2013-06-20, 16:13   Link #1674
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
MS almost had 'third console curse'.
If the Xbone moves 40 million units compared to the 80 million the 360 did than yes they had a curse. I mean after all the ps3 was cursed and it still moved near 80 million units.... but than again Sony is on another level when it comes to home consoles, noone comes close.

PSX - 104 million
PS2 - 157 million
PS3 - 80 million.

That's a 113 million avg they sell at.

MS is 25 + 80 for 52.5 avg, Nintendo is 62+50+33+22+100 for 53.5 avg...

But yeah noway MS do as well in America this gen as they did with the 360, it basically doubled the ps3 sales in america but now it's the more expensive console, isn't on market for a year earlier and is the less viable multplat system.
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Old 2013-06-20, 16:28   Link #1675
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
I really liked what I saw of Titanfall, but part of me really wonders if it's got what it takes to 'really' take off.

No doubt it'll sell a lot, but MS seems to be under this assumption that Titanfall will be a huge system mover for XB1 come its launch...

... It's launching for the PC for X360, both with many many millions of install base.

MAJORITY of the gamers do not buy consoles just for one game, especially if it's yet to develop a huge fanbase like Halo. I can see majority of the players going to just buy the 360 or PC versions.
What any cool exclusives do is to increase the value proposition of the base platform. For example, I have some interest in the Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2 and X. But as I have no interest in the Wii U to begin with, it only raises the value proposition to about $100. As long as the console is priced higher than that, I'm not going to be interested in it.

One of the reasons the PS4 is such a hot seller is that its value proposition is about $300-400 for most of the early adopters. And so even if the launch titles aren't all that appealing, it's still worthwhile to pre-order. I imagine that the value proposition of the Xbone is about the same $300-400 - the Kinect adds very little value here, but the lack of power doesn't detract very much either. Titanfall might raise that value a bit, maybe to $350-450 but that $500 price tag is always going to be hard to swallow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
If the Xbone moves 40 million units compared to the 80 million the 360 did than yes they had a curse. I mean after all the ps3 was cursed and it still moved near 80 million units.... but than again Sony is on another level when it comes to home consoles, noone comes close.

PSX - 104 million
PS2 - 157 million
PS3 - 80 million.

That's a 113 million avg they sell at.

MS is 25 + 80 for 52.5 avg, Nintendo is 62+50+33+22+100 for 53.5 avg...

But yeah noway MS do as well in America this gen as they did with the 360, it basically doubled the ps3 sales in america but now it's the more expensive console, isn't on market for a year earlier and is the less viable multplat system.
Do you have the US and EU sales figures? I'm sort of curious about them, but I can't find a handy source.
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Old 2013-06-20, 16:42   Link #1676
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Do you have the US and EU sales figures? I'm sort of curious about them, but I can't find a handy source.
Going by vgchartz (yes I know, but it's there weekly and "npd" data that's mostly bullshit) looking at this current gen....

America

Wii - 44.7 million
360 - 44.07 million (And Kinect is a massive reason it will end up the best selling console of this gen in America)
PS3 - 26.75 million (thought it was 22 million, so not exactly double but an asskicking regardless, especially when ps2 did 54 mil..)

Europe

Wii - 33.02 million
PS3 - 31.02 million (will go past the Wii within a year, another price drop, Gran Turismo 6, Grand Theft Auto 5, nuff said)
360 - 24.24 million

Japan

Wii - 12.72 million
PS3 - 9.33 million
360 - 1.64 million
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Old 2013-06-20, 18:13   Link #1677
kenjiharima
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speaking of AngryJoe

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Old 2013-06-20, 19:07   Link #1678
Sakuranbo
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So long as Microsoft gets rid of or makes a kinect-free model and doesn't require a subscription fee I might seriously consider getting one in the future depending on their game collection (and if I can at least pick out 3 titles that i must have).
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Old 2013-06-20, 19:24   Link #1679
Westlo
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MS are not going to part with Kinect period, they went from well behind the Wii in America to being on the verge of the #1 american console because of the momentum Kinect built.

You might not like Kinect but don't forget a lot of people thought the Wii's waggle was a load of horse shit as well, didn't stop it from selling like hotcakes.
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Old 2013-06-20, 19:27   Link #1680
GDB
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My main issue with the Kinect is that it has soooooooo much potential, but they didn't even come close to it. I assume the same will be true of the Kinect2, but time will tell. If unrelated parties could use the original Kinect to do such amazing things, I can only imagine how ridiculous things could get with the Kinect2.
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