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Old 2013-05-01, 16:20   Link #921
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
The basic philosophy of business:

If there's nothing there for me, why bother invest in it?

However, a future space industry? If mankind ever manages to expand in space and reap the resources out there -- today's oil industries would be worth pennies.



Unlike the military, NASA has much greater freedom to divert resources away from unneeded things - like... the Space Shuttle. Oh, how sad it was for that program to go away, but it was absolutely not feasible to keep the Space Shuttle running any longer.
Do you know how long it took for NASA to kill the space shuttle? I took a science/politics course in college, and the teacher told us NASA was just one giant jobs program even though it probably powered our current economy.
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Old 2013-05-01, 16:46   Link #922
kyp275
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Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
NASA is still needed, though. The private sector isn't all that interested in space development because there's no safe profit in it. We need an agency not concerned with profit to figure out enough stuff so that someone can come along later and then use that stuff to make a profit.

Then the space industry will mirror the computer/smartphone industry and the gains and advancements will be ludicrous.

wtb orbital elevators plzkthx
Never said NASA isn't needed, there are tons of pure research and projects which would require government fundings, as the lack of near-term profit that are typical of those type of projects would not attract private capitals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
There is a difference between corruption and Congressional stupidity. A lot of NSAS's facilities/research are under the control of congress. Like Armies who are stuffed with Tanks they don't want, NASA is stuffed with equipment they don't need.
There is no such thing as "congressional stupidity", if you mean to imply that they're actually inept. Whatever they do is done for political reasons. Also, 'a lot of NASA's facilities/research are under the control of congress" doesn't make sense. Congress does not run NASA, the Administrator does, and if you mean control via funding, then ALL of NASA, or for that matter, all of the government is controlled by Congress, which in turn makes your statement so broad as to be meaningless.

Also, I'm sure the rest of us would like to know what are the equipment that NASA is supposedly stuffed with that they don't need.

Quote:
In contrast, Falcon 9 are not burdened with the U.S Congress's political agenda to support their district, and they also benefit from years of research done by NASA. Of course, don't let the free marketeers know about that.
Which was exactly my point? Also, did I detect a hint of dismissal towards SpaceX because they "benefit from years of research done by NASA"? How is that even a negative? were they supposed to start from scratch with paper rockets? That's like saying Intel/AMD or any modern chip makers aren't jack because they didn't invent the transistor
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Old 2013-05-01, 16:52   Link #923
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Also, I'm sure the rest of us would like to know what are the equipment that NASA is supposedly stuffed with that they don't need.
An example was the Space Shuttle. As I mentioned earlier, it contained parts manufactured by all 50 States. This is nuts. Who had the smart idea of making Space Shuttle parts in Hawaii or Alaska?

The reason the Shuttle lasted this long wasn't because it was too good, but that the 50 state job creation is too powerful politically. The Shuttle wasn't what it was suppose to be (too expensive per launch), never did what it was suppose to do (regular launches cheaply), and couldn't be replaced by superior designs earlier because so much had already been invested in it. It worked, but the miracle was that it ever managed to work.
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Old 2013-05-01, 17:10   Link #924
Kyuu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Which was exactly my point? Also, did I detect a hint of dismissal towards SpaceX because they "benefit from years of research done by NASA"? How is that even a negative? were they supposed to start from scratch with paper rockets? That's like saying Intel/AMD or any modern chip makers aren't jack because they didn't invent the transistor
I remember a show on the History Channel. I forgot the show's title, but it was featuring a whole mess of commercial products, whose origin comes from the military.

If there's one thing about government ventures like NASA, it does function as a spearhead. It'll do things -- that business flat out won't do because it's risky. Likewise, a return on investment is not seen in the short run.

In this sense, business and the private sector -- very very short-sighted. However, it is good for being cost efficient (or at least trying to).
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Old 2013-05-01, 17:22   Link #925
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Best way to make sure something is funded? Have there be a benefit to all the Senetors states. While it won't help ever Congressmen's districts, covering that wide a selection of the country's economic base is almost a surefire way to get funded.

Even if the project is worthless.
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Old 2013-05-01, 17:22   Link #926
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
An example was the Space Shuttle. As I mentioned earlier, it contained parts manufactured by all 50 States. This is nuts. Who had the smart idea of making Space Shuttle parts in Hawaii or Alaska?

The reason the Shuttle lasted this long wasn't because it was too good, but that the 50 state job creation is too powerful politically. The Shuttle wasn't what it was suppose to be (too expensive per launch), never did what it was suppose to do (regular launches cheaply), and couldn't be replaced by superior designs earlier because so much had already been invested in it. It worked, but the miracle was that it ever managed to work.
The space shuttle wasn't something NASA "didn't need", it was a good project that never panned out due to the politics that got involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
In this sense, business and the private sector -- very very short-sighted. However, it is good for being cost efficient (or at least trying to).
Indeed. SpaceX did their designs from scratch, aiming for efficiency in all aspects of the entire process - manufacturing, operation, scalability etc. I would even venture to say that even the traditional players like Boeing and Lockheed also strived for cost-efficiency - except they were aimed at the company's bottom-line, instead of NASA's.
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Old 2013-05-01, 19:24   Link #927
Badkarma 1
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Originally Posted by achirist View Post
The US military is a terrorist organization, a racist colonial front that needs to be shut down. Right wing war criminals need to be put in jail, the foreign bases closed.
And The Hague is ringin my phone right off the hook too.
So lemme ask you this brain trust, if not US then who?
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Old 2013-05-01, 20:56   Link #928
ganbaru
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Thousands call for immigration reform in Los Angeles May Day march
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...94017B20130502

Gitmo closure elusive, Obama looks at other steps
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...05-01-16-42-46
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Old 2013-05-03, 14:21   Link #929
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
The space shuttle wasn't something NASA "didn't need", it was a good project that never panned out due to the politics that got involved.



Indeed. SpaceX did their designs from scratch, aiming for efficiency in all aspects of the entire process - manufacturing, operation, scalability etc. I would even venture to say that even the traditional players like Boeing and Lockheed also strived for cost-efficiency - except they were aimed at the company's bottom-line, instead of NASA's.
Actually, the Shuttle got "redesigned" thanks to repeated political budget cuts until it resembled a crippled griffon. About the only thing on it that was done 'right' were the engines themselves. Everything else was a "you said it was going to cost $10, here's $5 and it still has to work"

The budget cuts on the front end guaranteed the cost per flight were going to be ridiculous. "cheap up front, pay for the life of operations"
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Old 2013-05-03, 14:23   Link #930
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, the Shuttle got "redesigned" thanks to repeated political budget cuts until it resembled a crippled griffon. About the only thing on it that was done 'right' were the engines themselves. Everything else was a "you said it was going to cost $10, here's $5 and it still has to work"

The budget cuts on the front end guaranteed the cost per flight were going to be ridiculous. "cheap up front, pay for the life of operations"
but Vexx, didn't the savings went those Satellite Lasers your group was working on?
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Old 2013-05-03, 17:27   Link #931
kyp275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Actually, the Shuttle got "redesigned" thanks to repeated political budget cuts until it resembled a crippled griffon. About the only thing on it that was done 'right' were the engines themselves. Everything else was a "you said it was going to cost $10, here's $5 and it still has to work"

The budget cuts on the front end guaranteed the cost per flight were going to be ridiculous. "cheap up front, pay for the life of operations"
that's part of what I mean by "the politics got involved"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
but Vexx, didn't the savings went those Satellite Lasers your group was working on?
they were stolen by sharks.
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Old 2013-05-03, 19:04   Link #932
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
they were stolen by sharks.
With freaking lasers on their heads!
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Old 2013-05-03, 19:09   Link #933
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
but Vexx, didn't the savings went those Satellite Lasers your group was working on?
Too bad than thoses aren't working yet.
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Old 2013-05-03, 21:46   Link #934
Vexx
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
With freaking lasers on their heads!
And they were special gene vat land sharks.
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Old 2013-05-03, 22:43   Link #935
Kyuu
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Quote:
Politics of emotion, she argued, won't make the country safer. "It's the opposite of leadership. It's the manipulation of the people by the politicians for their own political ends. It's not just self-serving. It's destructive and it must stop."
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...town-families/

Rarely would I ever quote Sarah Palin... but... here, she's right.

She may be talking about the "other side" from her perspective. However, mirror mirror on the wall. These very same words apply to the NRA and any other reactionary group to particular issues.

I confess. I am not immune to this principle either.

===

And in other issues:

Quote:
States try to tackle 'secret money' in politics

With campaign donations up and a lack of federal action, a joint effort aims to lift the shadows on tax-exempt political advocacy groups and trade associations.

WASHINGTON — Early last month, state lawyers and election officials around the country dialed into a conference call to talk about how to deal with the flood of secret money that played an unprecedented role in the 2012 election.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...521,full.story

And per tradition... if the Federal government is inept... then it is up to the states to get things going:

Quote:
The unusual initiative was driven by the lack of progress at the federal level in pushing those groups to disclose their contributors if they engage in campaigns, as candidates and political action committees are required to do.

"There is no question that one of the reasons to have states working together is because the federal government, in numerous arenas, has failed to take action," said Ann Ravel, chairwoman of California's Fair Political Practices Commission, who organized the call with officials from about 10 states.

Last edited by Kyuu; 2013-05-03 at 23:04.
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Old 2013-05-05, 09:59   Link #936
ArchmageXin
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http://news.yahoo.com/texas-plant-bl...204535308.html

So, my toyota had 250,000$ Insurance policy as required by state law.

270 tons of high explosives? Only 4 time of that.

Nice isn't it? The physical damage alone is predicted to be $100 million.
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Old 2013-05-05, 17:16   Link #937
Kyuu
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One more gun related article. Yea, yea, I know the deal with this forum and this issue.

However, this letter, addressed to Wayne Lapierre, are words written by a lifetime NRA member:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-w...p_ref=politics

If TL;DR, this is really the basic jist of the letter:

Quote:
maybe the time has finally come when most Americans are more worried about ending the 100,000+ firearm deaths and injuries than whether you and your NRA cult of followers can Stand and Fight.
And also this part:

Quote:
I just watched your speech. I think it's time you dropped this nonsense about protecting our "rights." Be honest and tell it like it is. The reason you're opposed to background checks has absolutely nothing to do with the Second Amendment. It's about making it as easy as possible for everyone to own a gun. More guns means more profits for the gun companies, and that's who you (Wayne Lapierre) really represent.

In 2011, Ruger's stock was trading at $21 a share, now it's at $51. Smith & Wesson's stock was three bucks a share, today it's almost nine.
So, if you are a "responsible gun owner", it is best to read this letter and take it to heart.
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Old 2013-05-05, 17:21   Link #938
synaesthetic
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Gun show loophole needs to be closed badly.

If you want a gun, you should have to submit to a background check through NICS. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Even if you buy the gun from an individual rather than a dealer, you should still have to go through the process.
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Old 2013-05-05, 18:46   Link #939
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
Gun show loophole needs to be closed badly.

If you want a gun, you should have to submit to a background check through NICS. No ifs, ands or buts about it. Even if you buy the gun from an individual rather than a dealer, you should still have to go through the process.
Here's a specific example of what needs to be addressed. I sold my mother a .38spcl revolver last year. All I had to do was take it to an FFL dealer to ship it to an FFL dealer near her. And that's only because I can't ship it myself due to mailing regulations.

No check or nothing. Yeah, it's convenient but it's stupid.

And yeah, I started characterizing the NRA as a cult in the late '90s (ex-member, dropped it in '96). Took me a little longer to catch the corporate connection to arms manufacturers.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2013-05-05 at 18:56. Reason: calendar math sucks today
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Old 2013-05-05, 19:17   Link #940
synaesthetic
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They aren't even a fun cult, either. You don't get awesome sinister-looking robes and nobody chants ominous-sounding Latin in a dark room only illuminated by candles.
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