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Old 2013-02-18, 20:03   Link #21
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
But as far as I know the new games like FF13 are selling really good, despite the bad critics from many longtime fans about the dumbing down of this series.
XIII sold on the laurels of the series, not the game itself. Its price dropped insanely fast, which is not something you want to have happen, especially in Japan. XIII-2 sold like, half the number of copies of XIII, mostly because of how bad XIII was. I expect XIII-3 to sell even less than that, since it's rare to sell more copies with a second sequel than a first sequel.
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Old 2013-02-18, 20:06   Link #22
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
Of course it's my perception. My perception tells me that since the fusion every game started to suck.
FFX-2 = Dumb story with dumb and annoying charaters. Yuna's personality changing 180? Come one.
FFXII = Flat story with flat charaters with an even more flat main character.
FFXIII and XIII-2= Flat story with flat characters with flat gameplay.
Have you given any time to actually playing these games? Or did you just hear about how much they suck on the Internet?
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Old 2013-02-18, 20:49   Link #23
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Have you given any time to actually playing these games? Or did you just hear about how much they suck on the Internet?
in my case

can't comment on ffx-2 since i didn't ffx
with ffxii, i didn't finish it either
didn't bother buying ffxiii

After stop ffxii halfway. i went and replay ff1, vii and viii and finish all those.
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Old 2013-02-18, 21:59   Link #24
Dauerlutscher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
XIII sold on the laurels of the series, not the game itself. Its price dropped insanely fast, which is not something you want to have happen, especially in Japan. XIII-2 sold like, half the number of copies of XIII, mostly because of how bad XIII was. I expect XIII-3 to sell even less than that, since it's rare to sell more copies with a second sequel than a first sequel.
I see. Didn't knew this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Have you given any time to actually playing these games? Or did you just hear about how much they suck on the Internet?
Of course I played them, I was a huge fan of the series after all.
I should have known better and waited to read player reviews before I bought them and will not make the same mistake again.
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Old 2013-02-19, 00:40   Link #25
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
I'm not talking about linearity here. I have no problem with linear games as long they have a really good plot, good gameplay and interesting characters.
Well those criterias entirely subjective, there are games in 6-10 where I feel some of them lack in those areas, but saying more would just derail this topic.

Quote:
The graphic got better while the rest of the game got dumbed down.
Can't really agree with this. If we're taking in terms of pure combat, I've had far more challenging experiences in XII, and XIII than I did in those aforementioned games. Before them, I felt FFV was last FF game to provide any real strategy besides spam the attack, heal or limit break command.

If we're taking overall gameplay changes, you can make this claim for almost any FF title. For example in some of the games we used have 5 party members and others 3. We also had games where there was a huge range of customization (i.e FFV, FFVII etc) compared to others with ridged linear character growth (i.e FFIV, FFIX).

I don't think SE is trying dumb down anything rather than experimenting with each new game. They don't always get positive reactions, but at least they have the balls to try rather resting on their feet and rehashing ideas like some series.

Quote:
But I just can't agree with this casualization and the dumbing down of this series.

Again, I hope that Versus 13 will go back to the roots or this franchise will be dead for me.
FF has been casual since the SNES era, that's why they're so accessible. The series really isn't any different now. In the end Versus won't be like FFXIII since FF games usually avoids trying to be like the previous game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
XIII sold on the laurels of the series, not the game itself. Its price dropped insanely fast, which is not something you want to have happen, especially in Japan. XIII-2 sold like, half the number of copies of XIII, mostly because of how bad XIII was. I expect XIII-3 to sell even less than that, since it's rare to sell more copies with a second sequel than a first sequel.
The saying next game in a popular series sells off the power of previous title is a moot point though. This how franchises work. That's why FFVIII sold more than FFVII despite there being a large portion of the fanbase declaring it the worse FF ever. It will be the same with FFXV good or bad.
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Old 2013-02-19, 00:41   Link #26
Sassarai
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I must be like the weirdest ff fan. I didn't like 7 all that much and thought it was overrated. There's 2 ff games that I've never finished and that was 9 and 7.

Do good Jrpgs even sell these days? or is the genre pretty much dead? Persona 4 is probably the last one I played that I thought was good. Suikoden V was good despite the loading issues, too bad that series is dead

Last edited by Sassarai; 2013-02-19 at 01:01.
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Old 2013-02-19, 02:00   Link #27
Iron Maw
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So anyone think this going to be the superior international version or just graphical update of the vanilla game?

What kinda of changes/improvements are you hoping to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I must be like the weirdest ff fan. I didn't like 7 all that much and thought it was overrated. There's 2 ff games that I've never finished and that was 9 and 7.

Do good Jrpgs even sell these days? or is the genre pretty much dead? Persona 4 is probably the last one I played that I thought was good. Suikoden V was good despite the loading issues, too bad that series is dead
They still sell, but mainly in Japan on handhelds. Their popularity has waned heavily in west and yeah Suikoden is dead along many classics from SNES and PS1 era.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2013-02-19 at 02:16.
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Old 2013-02-19, 04:37   Link #28
Gundamx
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FFXIII-2 only sell half FFXIII = bad, really?
They still get a lot of profit from it you know....
as long as there is a lot of profit = succeed

It's same logic as resident evil 4 game
Older fan didn't like it but a lot of new fan like it > they get a lot of profit > succeed > 5 use same style as 4 )
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Old 2013-02-19, 05:48   Link #29
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
FFXIII-2 only sell half FFXIII = bad, really?
They still get a lot of profit from it you know....
as long as there is a lot of profit = succeed

It's same logic as resident evil 4 game
Older fan didn't like it but a lot of new fan like it > they get a lot of profit > succeed > 5 use same style as 4 )
Actually, it means 50% of people who played XIII was NOT interested in a sequel. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the sequel because people would have already bought it.

50% dissatisfaction. Glass half full?
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Old 2013-02-19, 06:29   Link #30
Gundamx
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Actually, it means 50% of people who played XIII was NOT interested in a sequel. It doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the sequel because people would have already bought it.

50% dissatisfaction. Glass half full?
FFXIII-2 sold more than 3 millions (world wide) = profit ( many games producers will be happy with just 300 k)

it's not same as FFXIII = yeah
but was it nonprofit game? = no
(If it was half of 300k they might change but to sell 30000 k copy = I doubt it)
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Old 2013-02-19, 12:34   Link #31
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
XIII sold on the laurels of the series, not the game itself. Its price dropped insanely fast, which is not something you want to have happen, especially in Japan
I remember this was discussed before and some poster said it was normal for square rpgs or something like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
FFXIII-2 sold more than 3 millions (world wide) = profit ( many games producers will be happy with just 300 k)
Yeah especially considering jrpgs don't sell at all these days and the dlcs must of made it a ton more money.
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Old 2013-02-19, 13:07   Link #32
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post

Do good Jrpgs even sell these days? or is the genre pretty much dead? Persona 4 is probably the last one I played that I thought was good. Suikoden V was good despite the loading issues, too bad that series is dead
i like the Disgaea series

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
FFXIII-2 sold more than 3 millions (world wide) = profit ( many games producers will be happy with just 300 k)

it's not same as FFXIII = yeah
but was it nonprofit game? = no
(If it was half of 300k they might change but to sell 30000 k copy = I doubt it)
that depends on the development cost. I would think FF games cost more to produce then most rpg. I don't know if the FFxIII was profitable or not but we do know SqEn lost money the last couple of years.
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Old 2013-02-19, 13:29   Link #33
GDB
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
The saying next game in a popular series sells off the power of previous title is a moot point though. This how franchises work. That's why FFVIII sold more than FFVII despite there being a large portion of the fanbase declaring it the worse FF ever. It will be the same with FFXV good or bad.
I was mostly using that statement to counter a claim of "It sold well, so it couldn't have sucked!"

And we don't even know if a FFXV will come out anytime soon, let alone ever (if they keep bleeding money). The next new game is FFXIII-3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gundamx View Post
FFXIII-2 sold more than 3 millions (world wide) = profit ( many games producers will be happy with just 300 k)
Many games cost fractions of percentages of the cost of Final Fantasy games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I remember this was discussed before and some poster said it was normal for square rpgs or something like that.
Eventually, they come down, yes. However, it happens somewhat slowly, and in a linear fashion. FFXIII was a week or two after release, and it plummetted in price by around 80%+. It was not a usual drop at all.
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Old 2013-02-19, 14:00   Link #34
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post

Eventually, they come down, yes. However, it happens somewhat slowly, and in a linear fashion. FFXIII was a week or two after release, and it plummetted in price by around 80%+. It was not a usual drop at all.
I dunno, I just remember having this argument awhile back and the guy backed it up with numbers showing that they do tend to plummet in sales dramatically.

edit: oh yeah here it is. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1927 Holy cow a 2009 posts, I have no idea how I remember this stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i like the Disgaea series
Never played it. The graphics didn't appeal to me. Judging a game by its cover


The two series that I still sort of look forward to is Persona (played 3+4) and Tales (Abyss + Vesperia). I was thinking about getting Tales of Graces but the reviews didn't make it seem all that good. The Last Story and Xenoblade looks like my type but it's for the Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.

Last edited by Sassarai; 2013-02-19 at 15:02.
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Old 2013-02-19, 14:06   Link #35
Gundamx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i like the Disgaea series
that depends on the development cost. I would think FF games cost more to produce then most rpg. I don't know if the FFxIII was profitable or not but we do know SqEn lost money the last couple of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Many games cost fractions of percentages of the cost of Final Fantasy games.
If it was FFXIII = sure
But it was FFXIII-2 >>> use same engine as FFXIII = they didn't use a lot of money to build it as building new FF game from ground.

+
SE lost money because of FFXIV
They release uncomplete game just because the fan demand it... it was pure nightmare... let's hope they learn that with ARR 2.0 that beging late is a lot better than buggy game...
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:03   Link #36
Bonta Kun
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Meh wasn't overly keen on FFX, infact don't think I ever got round to completing it, so really all I can say is "just give me my FF versus already!"
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:21   Link #37
Benoit
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
The Last Story and Xenoblade looks like my type but it's for the Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.
So what? Just get them!
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Old 2013-02-19, 15:50   Link #38
GDB
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I dunno, I just remember having this argument awhile back and the guy backed it up with numbers showing that they do tend to plummet in sales dramatically.

edit: oh yeah here it is. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1927 Holy cow a 2009 posts, I have no idea how I remember this stuff.
Those are sale numbers. I'm talking price point.
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Old 2013-02-19, 16:10   Link #39
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Those are sale numbers. I'm talking price point.
Maybe they just over estimated the demand? When/How often has a jrpg sold even half a mil to a mil?
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Old 2013-02-19, 17:12   Link #40
GDB
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I don't see how that would have anything to do with a week 2/week 3 price plummet. The price dropped so hard and so fast because it was bad, and people were trading their copies in and people weren't even buying those used games. For the most part, this was an isolated incedent that was about quality vs expectations, not supply vs demand.
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