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Old 2013-08-11, 21:28   Link #261
Myssa Rei
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You know what's been bothering me about Akari's ability to "hear" the voices of the turned-Daemonia: why hasn't she asked the obvious question yet (Who turned you into this)? Is it because they're all going with the (what we know is a mistaken) assumption that people turning into Daemonia is a natural occurence (see the lecture on infection percentages)?
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Old 2013-08-11, 23:12   Link #262
Diveman
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Well yeah this episode was pretty "ok", better than last week for sure. It still feels like "monster of the week" which is probably what I really dislike about it now.

Next week is something about vacations? beach episode incoming?
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Old 2013-08-12, 11:57   Link #263
Dawnstorm
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
But in fairness to Shadow5YA, he's been proven very right about the Akira/Seira ideological conflict. Akira's overall position ("Yes, the Daemonia must die, but we should hear their final words before we exterminate them") is clearly the one that the anime is supporting, and it looks like Seira will be won over to it if she isn't already.

Ok... but now what? Where can the anime go from here?
We're not done yet with the set up. The show is fairly formulaic, so far, so we're going to get a Luna episode in the near future. And I'm certain there's a reason why she's been left for last: there's a Sun vs. Moon dichotomy going on here.

I'm not sure it's about an ideological conflict, so much, as it's setting up the motivations for the girls:

Akari is fairly new to fighting and learned about it through killing her cousin. She now thinks she can never hear her voice - a lost opportunity. This is sort of the catalyst behind the changes that make the story happen (whatever it will turn out to be).

Ginka herself is fairly empty. She claims to be fighting for money, because that's a plausible goal, but I suspect she has no real reason. She's been shaken from one extreme (poverty) to another (filthy rich). We've seen her engage in social banter with her father's business partners, with charm and confidence. But what's her motivation to go through with it? The obvious, superficial motivation is money.

Luna has several moments of jealousy: first, when she sees Ginka with her father, and then (not conclusive, but I think so) when she sees her with Akari. I suspect this will lead to a grass-is-always-greener-over-there episode for Luna (would jive with the Moon card), but we'll know more once she gets her episode.

Seira's problem is resolve. She doesn't have confidence to face what she's doing head on. It's not so much an ideological conflict, as it is a personal issue - much like Ginka.

Here's the thing. So far, I'd say Akari's card is the right way up, but the other girls may have their card reversed. Lack of grounding for Ginka (a Temperance problem), lack of resolve for Seira (a Star problem). I suspect that Luna's problem will be something along the lines of false idols (a typical Moon problem).

There are two things this points towards:

Currently, Akari is facing the truth for unrelated people. That may not be easy, but you can close yourself off. How will she think about revealing the truth, once she finds out that Fuyuna's dead because she was jealous of her? Will her card go into reverse?

The second aspect is Luna: if Luna becomes aware of the fact that she's been "praying to false idols", this might very well be a game changer. The sun may be too bright for the moon: they may not be able to co-exist. I can't quite tell yet, but it's possible that she'll fall to complete despair, or even turn over to the other side (though they don't seem to want the "blood lines" - as we've seen with Ginka's dad).

Spoiler for Madoka comparison:


The biggest problem I have with the show is pacing, in particular scene transitions: very often it's not clear how much time passes between scenes; or you don't have enough time to deal with the fall-out of the previous scene. There's too much abrupt re-orientation. That works in books, where I can set the pace; it doesn't work for me in anime, where I'm left behind and feel a little disoriented.

We'll see where this goes.
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Old 2013-08-12, 16:45   Link #264
Dark Wing
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Wow Dawnstorm you just did a better job explaining characters and their motivations then the smoke has in past 6 episodes.
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Old 2013-08-17, 10:05   Link #265
MisaoFan
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Old 2013-08-18, 18:11   Link #266
Triple_R
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Hhmmm... Luna seemed to have been developing jealousy issues over Akari growing closer to Seira, but it kinda seemed like this episode resolved them. I'm also a little bit surprised that Luna didn't get an episode dedicated to her after Ginka and Seira did (unless that comes later, although I have some doubts about that now).

This latest episode was a pleasant one, but it also definitely had a foreboding "calm before the storm" tone to it. While I'm still not sure about the central ideas or themes of this work, it does appear like the plot is going to soon thicken and pick up at least. I'm hoping we'll get a clever antagonist or two that'll really challenge our magical girl heroines.
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Old 2013-08-18, 20:12   Link #267
gaiar31
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Nice Tarrot!
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Old 2013-08-18, 23:37   Link #268
J the Drafter
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This episode had a fillerish feel to it, though I don't think that's what the creators were going for. It looked like the writers wanted to establish the girls' bond with each other before kicking into high gear, but the outing just felt bland to me. I thought the writers had a good idea with this episode--show that the girls like are and try and make us care about them--but it just made me impatient. The problem was that we--or I, at least--weren't shown too many things that were actually interesting. I'm going to use a quote I got from somewhere and say that if the show wasn't advancing the plot when it was focused on the girls it should have taken a deeper look at their characters. They did that with Ginka, extrapolating her monetary-focused upbringing by revealing that she makes sure to have money on hand, and that she pays attention to debts. They continued to show Luna's jealousy, but a single personality trait does not a character make. Seira and Akari were both their usual selves for the most part, with nothing new shown and no existing traits elaborated upon outside of that one scene where Akari asks Seira how to exercise.
I think the problem goes back deeper than this one episode. This episode is the culmination of everything we've seen of the girls up until now, and unfortunately, the girls have all had holes in their character development.
Whoever it was on this thread who said that Akari's unwillingness to kill Daemonia completely disappears after that one dude tells her to kill him is correct. (Akari does have a different subplot with her wish to remember the Daemonia's motives for falling to temptation, but that's a totally new character thread.)
The incident with Ginka's very treasured uncle is treated like a plot of the week.
Seira's opinions were explained, but the show never gave them the examination they deserved. Instead, Seira's focus episode treated those opinions like a mistake that needed to be corrected. That portrayal is horribly un-nuanced. The show should have discussed the downsides and merits of Seira's beliefs and the downsides and merits of Akari's beliefs. Even better would be if the anime allowed us viewers to make up our own minds about the two different approaches and still showed why the characters eventually chose the philosophy they did.
It seems clear to me that the show is holding back much of Luna's character until we reach the main event. There's nothing wrong with that, but it means Luna's character is pretty thin so far. Sure, we're getting hints, but we can't fully analyze Luna until we're given enough information to understand her.
All told, Day Break Illusion is being hamstrung by its poor character development. I think the writers wanted to give their characters depth, and I think they've actually done that a little (the different ways Ginka's money fixation affects her life and Akari's notebook of the Daemonia's motivations come to mind), but there have been a huge number of cases where ideas were either never properly explored or were presented and then resolved, with no follow-up. (I have to give Korvaal over at Wiki Tropes credit for his point about resolutions. He harps on resolutions constantly, and he's right.) I think this show has the potential to be interesting, but I don't think the characterization is going to be as solid as could be hoped.
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Ein: “There’s nothing. Dreams are illusions. All they do is interfere with reality.”
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“Phantom: Requiem for the Phantom” and “Superman vs. the Elite”

(Mostly accurate dialogue, but with a little editing to make it mesh better.)
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Old 2013-08-24, 10:01   Link #269
MisaoFan
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Spoiler for Episode 8:
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Old 2013-08-24, 17:00   Link #270
Triple_R
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Well, I'll give this to Gen'ei's latest episode - It's pretty shocking.

Gen'ei has become more ambitious with this latest episode, but time will tell if that ends up helping the show or not.
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Old 2013-08-24, 22:26   Link #271
Dark Wing
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Don't get me wrong I'm glad the story is starting to feel like it's going some where it's just too bad it took so long to get the ball rolling.
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Old 2013-08-25, 02:43   Link #272
novalysis
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Sorry. I don't get it.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica Spoiler:
than Ginka's death. Though, throughout the episode, the Death Flags were flagging really hard for Ginka.
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Old 2013-08-25, 05:50   Link #273
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Sorry. I don't get it.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica Spoiler:
than Ginka's death. Though, throughout the episode, the Death Flags were flagging really hard for Ginka.
Well, there's three key differences at play here, I think.

Spoiler for Madoka Magica/Gen'ei comparison:
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Old 2013-08-25, 12:21   Link #274
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Spoiler for Episode 8:
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Old 2013-08-25, 20:25   Link #275
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Spoiler for Episode 8:
Spoiler for episode 8:
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Old 2013-08-25, 21:19   Link #276
Diveman
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hmmm I have mixed feelings with this episode, first it was good at establishing the "fear" that even if they win vs Daemonia they'll dissapear from existence. And you could feel the "despair" from Luna about the whole situation.

On the other hand, Genei does it again at showing super obvious death flags, so we all could see Ginka fighting her "clone" from a mile away.

Again, I don't dislike this new development but I think it either came too late or it hasn't been handled correctly.

PD: Apparently next week is Luna's episode or her turn to fight. We'll see how that goes.
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Old 2013-08-26, 00:55   Link #277
Kismet-chan
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I have weird feelings about the episode.

Spoiler for Episode 8 Thoughts:

But man, I still find myself looking very forward to the next episode week after week. I really want to see how the other girls are impacted by this as they push forward... Not to mention that I've been really eager for Luna's episode.
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Old 2013-08-26, 10:32   Link #278
Triple_R
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My issue with Ginka's actions are two-fold.

1) It seemed a bit sudden and rash. In the course of one episode she completely changes her mind. And what seemed to change her mind is a chat with her father, which is kind of odd to me. I mean, did it occur to Ginka how much her death will negatively affect her father?

2) The matter didn't seem pressing to me. I mean, it didn't seem like an innocent life was immediately being imperiled by Ginka's counterpart card. If Ginka's counterpart card was on the verge of killing a couple kids, say, then Ginka's actions would come across as much more understandable and a bit more heroic, imo.


Also, at a meta-level, I'm a bit worried that the anime has now placed itself into a catch-22 situation. Let me explain what I mean in the spoiler space below.


Spoiler for Includes implied Madoka Magica and Mai HiME spoilers:
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Old 2013-08-26, 16:53   Link #279
Dawnstorm
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Unlike TirpleR and Kismet-chan, I didn't find Ginka's decision sudden at all, and I also don't view it as an about-face. She's always been looking to fill a perceived emptiness inside, and to go all-out all of a sudden actually makes sense: Her protestations of running away have really only been keeping up a facade; it's the standard fear, but there was no conviction behind it. She's been saying it, pretty much because nobody else said it.

That said, I'm a bit unsure how came to her decision after her father told her she was balancing out the troupe. She notices something and removes herself? Maybe she realised that all her decisions came from the desire to bridge everything rather than from within, and that her emptiness comes from fitting in too much? That would make some sort of sense, but I'm not convinced. That's something I haven't really worked out.

Ginka was my favourite of the girls. I'm sad to see her go, but I do share novalysis' experience: the scene itself lacked emotional punch. It's also main-character syndrom that the most vehement and camera-centric reaction to her death comes from Akari (a rather clichéd "no"). I do think the series is interesting, but emotional resonance is not one of its strengths for me.
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Old 2013-08-26, 18:12   Link #280
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
Unlike TirpleR and Kismet-chan, I didn't find Ginka's decision sudden at all, and I also don't view it as an about-face. She's always been looking to fill a perceived emptiness inside, and to go all-out all of a sudden actually makes sense: Her protestations of running away have really only been keeping up a facade; it's the standard fear, but there was no conviction behind it. She's been saying it, pretty much because nobody else said it.
"Protestations" strikes me as a bit too strong. Who is she protesting against? Even the head of the organization very clearly told them that they should run for it if they encounter their counterpart card. It's not like Ginka's superiors expect her and her allies/friends to boldly go to their death for the greater cause. Quite the contrary, in fact.

Ginka's initial opinion of wanting to stay alive and not throw her life away seemed quite sensible and sincere to me given the overall circumstances. I certainly didn't see any reason to think she was being insincere there. I don't know what you mean by "no conviction behind it". You need conviction simply to want to stay alive? It's the opposite that calls for conviction, imo, and building that up in such a short span of time is, yes, a bit hard for me to swallow.

So yeah, her completely changing her opinion in the course of one episode on a literally life and death matter struck me as quite sudden.

You speak of Ginka having a certain emptiness to her. And at a meta-level, I can see that. Her character lacked pathos, especially relative to Akari and Seira. But Ginka nonetheless seemed like a believable and basically normal person to me. I didn't get the impression that she was missing something essential.
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