AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > Forum & Site Feedback

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-13, 02:30   Link #1
Triple_R
Ho Ho Honoka!
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Create "Generalized Anime Complaints" sticky thread on General Anime.

Over the past couple months or so, I've noticed a big upsurge of what you could call "complaint posts" on the General Anime subforum. In other words, posts that are critical of modern anime in general.

Now, I tend to be pretty libertarian about this. I think that the opinions of critics should be given the same consideration that the opinions of fans are given. This is why I'll sometimes defend critics when I feel that they're not getting a fair shake.

But even so, there does come a point when redundancy and sheer quantity becomes a factor.

I think the moderators themselves recognize this, given how this thread was recently closed.


Consider we also have What do you hate about anime?, and Growing out of anime, and Anime cliche that you hate, with a good reason.

Do we really need all of these? The first and the third of those three are clearly redundant. If there's an anime cliche that you hate, well that's something you hate about anime. "Growing out of anime" is somewhat different, but still, if you feel that you're "Growing out of" something, you probably don't view that something in much of a positive light anymore. You may even hate it now.

Then every so often, almost like clockwork really, you'll get some newcomer to Anime Suki that'll throw up a complaint thread. Which tends to read like every complaint thread we've had here since 2009, if not earlier.

Again, I agree strongly with freedom of expression and in critics having their say. But at some point, this sort of repetition and redundancy carried through numerous threads can create an overwhelming sense of negativity on the General Anime subforum.


So, with all of that wrote, why not have a sticky thread on General Anime for "Generalized Anime Complaints". This would be the thread that members go to if they want to voice a generalized complaint or criticism about modern anime. "What do you hate about anime?" and "Anime cliche that you hate, with a good reason" would be both moved en masse into that thread. Perhaps "Growing out of anime" should be moved en masse into that thread too. Doing this would significantly cut down on repetition and clutter, leaving more space on the front page for a wider range of topics.


Now, I do think Anime you hate but everyone seems to like should stay separate, because it's fairly specific, and it strikes me as fair to have it separate when you have Anime you love but everyone else hates?

But other than that, I think the other generalized criticism/complaint threads should perhaps be folded into one stickied thread. And by making it stickied, you can better deal with the next fly-by-nighter that wants to list off everything he or she dislikes about modern anime. Just direct him or her to the generalized criticism/complaints thread.


So, what do people think of my proposal here?
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 02:39   Link #2
Archon_Wing
Throw it on the ground
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The Mists
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
I agree with you 1600% Triple. That's because I traveled back in time to prevent these threads from being made but failed.

But yes, redundant topics are redundant, and should be stickied or something. We get it, anime no longer suits you [the complainer, not anyone in particular].

I'm not for censorship. If someone has a well thought out and specific complaint that is worthy of reasoned discussion then there's no reason why it can't. But otherwise it's just everyone airing out dirty laundry. And it stinks.
__________________
You just try again... through the darkness.You just go away... the future is waiting for us!
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 02:44   Link #3
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 23
Honestly this isn't just limited to complaint threads. There are so many list threads in general that plague that subforum. A lot threads where there's no actual discussion, just people posting lists. At least the growing out of anime thread provoked some discussion, even if a lot of it in my view was misguided.
Reckoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 03:06   Link #4
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
I do think an issue is that the threads may have started with somewhat-dissimilar premises, but they end up devolving into the same complaints in all the threads. Whether or not they started in different directions, they end up converging. I think part of this is because these threads weren't all created at the same time, but they were mostly bumped from different points in the past. Normally you get a topic like this once every so often, but now a bunch of these "so oftens" are side-by-side.

I will say that I have had my fill of "awkward breakup letters to the anime industry". The real issue there is that most of the people who make these sorts of posts/threads don't really want anyone to challenge them or to suggest they may be wrong/misguided/overly-biased. They basically want sympathy and support from people who feel the same way. It's like a support group of sorts. I'm not sure it's really well suited for this Forum the way it's usually presented.

Anyway, I'm not sure about the proposed solution at this moment (need to think about it some more), but it's probably worth doing something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Honestly this isn't just limited to complaint threads. There are so many list threads in general that plague that subforum. A lot threads where there's no actual discussion, just people posting lists.
This is why I posted the sticky about 'No More "Favourite/Best/Worst <x> in anime" threads' because, yes, it can sort of overwhelm the forum and it doesn't really provoke deep discussion. We do try to tell people to post reasons not lists... but not everyone follows that guideline, and I'm not sure it's so well-suited to "strict enforcement".
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 03:08   Link #5
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Yeah, this is one of the downsides of free thread creation. People making redundant topics and fly by night newbies creating threads about pointless stuff.

General is pretty crammed anyway, and it's not just the complaint topics. We're working on a plan to mitigate that, but nothing is set in stone for the moment.
__________________
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 06:29   Link #6
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
It's not directly related to the thread topic, but stickied general recommendation threads would also be a good idea for the Suggestions sub-forum. A huge number of requests are essentially redundant, especially when the poster asks for anime that fall within broadly defined genres.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 08:53   Link #7
Haiprbim
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Visual Dream Panire
I personally think a thread like that would be good, however, if there is one for Complaints, here should be one for Compliments as well, or even better, both in one thread.
Of course, the thread would focus on Anime overall in general, not a specific Anime.
For a specific Anime, we already have "Overall Opinions/Impressions" threads located on that Anime's Forum/Subforum.

In short, answering the first post, I think that creating a thread General Compliments & Complaints about Anime Overall would not be such a bad idea. Of course, that is mostly because of the recent actions the members of the AnimeSuki community made, expressing their feelings about Animes changing over the years, about Anime's focusing, etc. That kind of threads/topics usually do not really have a useful containing for the other members to gain from, they are only pushing good and visited threads back. However, giving a shot in creating a thread that would focus just on that, allowing "overall expression" thread creators to post their opinions on it instead of creating a new thread about it probably wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Thanks, have a good day.
Haiprbim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 11:16   Link #8
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Considering how few fansub-consumers actually spend any money on anime, I don't really think the studios actually care if we break up with them, awkwardly or not.

An all-inclusive complaint thread might work but I think it'd be a little like "free speech zones," and would probably alienate a lot of users.

Better to just lock/delete threads that have no real purpose on a case by case basis.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 18:59   Link #9
Kameruka
Hen-Tie
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hen-Tie pen
Any complained threads that had nothing to do with Animesuki like this one should have been locked if not erased.
Kameruka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 19:13   Link #10
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by P3tr View Post
In short, answering the first post, I think that creating a thread General Compliments & Complaints about Anime Overall would not be such a bad idea.
Agree but that makes me want a General Anime Overall Appreciation Thread too...
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 05:01   Link #11
Haiprbim
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Visual Dream Panire
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Agree but that makes me want a General Anime Overall Appreciation Thread too...
Well, what is the difference between Appreciation and Compliments? ;)
Well, maybe you are right. It could be General Appreciation & Complaints about Anime Overall instead of General Compliments & Complaints about Anime Overall, hehe.
Anyhow, I think we could decide on the name later, what we should be discussing is if that kind of a thread would be necessary or not and look at the possibilities of what may happen/change if one is created.
Haiprbim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 05:40   Link #12
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by P3tr View Post
Well, what is the difference between Appreciation and Compliments?
Well, maybe you are right. It could be General Appreciation & Complaints about Anime Overall instead of General Compliments & Complaints about Anime Overall, hehe.
Anyhow, I think we could decide on the name later, what we should be discussing is if that kind of a thread would be necessary or not and look at the possibilities of what may happen/change if one is created.
Sorry, I'm weak in English... hehehe....
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 16:42   Link #13
Dhomochevsky
temporary safeguard
 
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Germany
Age: 33
Ehh...?
If there is one negative point I'd have to bring up about moderation, it would be the frequent obstruction of interesting discussion.
Sure, it's a mod's job to keep a certain degree of order and sometimes things may be offtopic, heating up, in the wrong place and so on. But please try to keep in mind this is a discussion board... If there is a discussion going on, that's a good thing in itself.

Here's the thing: even if there may be certain redundancies in the topics, there is a distinct discussion going on, in each of them, right now. (They are active and on the front page of GA after all). If you mix them, the room for broad discussion is gone and most current arguments are killed off. The number of arguments you can have in a single thread at the same time are limited by the fact, that everyone only reads the last 2-3 posts.
-> there is a use for several slightly different threads, if the topic is of big interest.

In this respect, please don't touch these threads. Currently they are the few active discussion threads on general anime topic, that are left (not counting list topics...). No reason to kill that forum, right?

Last edited by Dhomochevsky; 2013-03-16 at 16:53.
Dhomochevsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 17:34   Link #14
Haiprbim
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Visual Dream Panire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
Ehh...?
If there is one negative point I'd have to bring up about moderation, it would be the frequent obstruction of interesting discussion.
Sure, it's a mod's job to keep a certain degree of order and sometimes things may be offtopic, heating up, in the wrong place and so on. But please try to keep in mind this is a discussion board... If there is a discussion going on, that's a good thing in itself.
This thread was meant to focus on where the complaints towards animes should be posted, not judging the Moderator's actions. Moderators only act on behalf of what the rules state. What you are disagreeing with here are the current AnimeSuki Rules that apply, not Moderator's actions.

Quote:
Here's the thing: even if there may be certain redundancies in the topics, there is a distinct discussion going on, in each of them, right now. (They are active and on the front page of GA after all). If you mix them, the room for broad discussion is gone and most current arguments are killed off. The number of arguments you can have in a single thread at the same time are limited by the fact, that everyone only reads the last 2-3 posts.
-> there is a use for several slightly different threads, if the topic is of big interest.

In this respect, please don't touch these threads. Currently they are the few active discussion threads on general anime topic, that are left (not counting list topics...). No reason to kill that forum, right?
Well, as far as I saw, the posts that focused on complaining towards a specific anime did receive from 2-3 responses, not more.
However, if what you say would be true, that a rant/complaint over a specific anime would get multiple responses, I may would have think about it. If I would be an Administrator of AnimeSuki Forums, I would create a whole new Forum section that would focus on Compliments & Complaints about anime overall if the current compliments and complaints threads would have a lot of posts/responses. However, if they wouldn't, which I see is the current case, I would create a thread on the General Anime section focusing just on that. The complaints wouldn't get messed up if one would only get 2-3 responses, meaning that it would be a swift solution.
Haiprbim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 03:56   Link #15
Traece
:cool:
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Idaho
Age: 22
Part of the issue is best explained when you look at the newly split "The Death of Evolution of Scifi and Mecha Genres" thread. This thread was created out of a multi-page, tangential discussion as part of one of the threads being discussed in this topic. This was deemed necessary (and was clearly necessary) because of how quickly people latched on to that topic.

Not just on Asuki, but on any discussion board of any sort, a broad topic with a lot of people posting in it will always result in the creation of tangential discussions that run a similar course, but with a narrower topic that will become its own entity. This is the reason why you can't just make a broad topic. This is especially an issue since this is a very linear forum where the posts are categorized by posting time. If this were Reddit, for example (or if we used a discussion board that worked similarly to that one), a broad topic could be posed and people could have hundreds or even thousands of different discussions simultaneously, while still occupying a larger topic. At the same time though, that makes it extremely difficult for newcomers to enter the discussion.

The issue as I see it is, how do you create the most efficient range of topics that fills the needs of Asuki members and simultaneously meet their needs for narrower fields of discussion? If you wanted to temporarily mitigate these issues you could create those broad topics and allow them to trend, then create splits whenever it becomes clear that discussion trends have evolved beyond the capacity of the topic. The effectiveness of that system could be quite great depending on the scrutiny of moderators, but eventually there would be a wide range of narrow topics that enjoy a large quantity of constant discussion as there are right now.

More or less, it's not an issue that can be solved permanently. Every time it gets sizable it has to be crunched back down again. It's a very vicious cycle that can't be avoided.

Of course, the most monstrous suggestion I could pose is creating child forums under General Anime for these problem topics, thus segregating them from the general anime list. This would allow them to flourish without being distracting to other methods of discussion. I can't say it would particularly solve the issue of having redundant topics appearing constantly, but I suspect another layer of organization would have an effect. This is especially true if that child had additional moderation attached to it with clear guidelines, and even a need for approval prior to thread creation.
Edit: In line with some of what Triple_R mentioned, this would also serve well for "stickying" topics. Since you would be dealing with, likely, a very controlled list of topics or at least a smaller list, it becomes clearer what topics do exist and would result in the creation of less topics since people clearly know what's already there.
Edit2: Since creating a child would also mean that many commonly used topics would be moved to that child, it also means that moderators can inventory effectively and even create a list with links to each topic so that it is very clear which ones already exist. Newer users who looks at a sticky'd library could simply check to see if the topic they're interested has already been posted (Trick question, it already has and they're not going to look at the sticky anyhow, but I dare to dream). Hilariously I just looked at the general anime forum and what do I see? An index of studio discussions. Precedents are fun!

-
__________________
Traece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 05:18   Link #16
Haiprbim
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Visual Dream Panire
I kind of agree with you, Traece.
However, keep in mind that these kind of threads are not like the others.

When most of the threads on AnimeSuki Forums focus on a certain Anime/Manga/Light Novel and are discussing it's story-line, hip & happening... people may learn new new things from it, also, share the enjoyment of it. In it, they exchange all the newest info about it and make things clearer about them for some others.
However, threads that focus on complaints are usually purely one-sided, plus, no one can gain anything from them. Unless, of course, they are in that kind of production business as well, in that case, they might look at what the customers think, which I do not think is the case.

I hope you see what I mean, sharing something you know about a certain anime or sharing a link to a site with merchandise/news/gadgets is way more useful than just ranting off about how bad the animes of a certain genre have become.
Quite the opposite, someone who hasn't watched that kind of genre in the past might leave the thread with a negative feeling of that genre getting worse, although he/she liked it before looking at the thread very much.
Haiprbim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 17:18   Link #17
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
I would heartily sign up for a "Miscellaneous" type of thread to chunk the majority of redundant threads of this type in. The occasional exception (like the "evolution" thread) would stand out enough to warrant being left alone. The OP really does set the tone for most threads.

But otherwise, Syn's and Relentflame's comments are aligned with my observations.
__________________
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-17, 22:30   Link #18
Akuma Kinomoto
木之本 悪魔
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by P3tr View Post
In short, answering the first post, I think that creating a thread General Compliments & Complaints about Anime Overall would not be such a bad idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by synaesthetic View Post
An all-inclusive complaint thread might work but I think it'd be a little like "free speech zones," and would probably alienate a lot of users.

Better to just lock/delete threads that have no real purpose on a case by case basis.
Bingo. A neatly packaged complaint thread reminds me of one of those customer service criticism ballots that makes it feel like nobody really gives a damn about what you're saying. Creating a thread to house both compliments and whining would at least make it make it look like we're not just shoving all of the haters onto the Hipster Express.
__________________
My MAL
Akuma Kinomoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.