AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-12, 05:02   Link #1
frivolity
My posts are frivolous
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 26
To what extent do commercial factors affect the plot?

I read the post below on another forum some time back. My view is that manga and light novels tend to be more influenced by commercial factors because of the uncertainty of publication. Readers are often a fickle lot, and any story could be shelved at any time, so authors often have to put in various "checkpoints" at which the story could end prematurely without looking incomplete. At the same time, stories sometimes get extended beyond the author's plans.

Now, I don't subscribe to the "death of the author" theory, which loosely states that the story means what it means to the reader and the author's intentions should be ignored. I don't believe, however, that the intentions of authors and mangaka are absolute when interpreting the story, because they can and do change their stories depending on what will sell.

Discuss.

Spoiler for Ichigo 100% analysis:
__________________
frivolity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 05:23   Link #2
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
I really thought it was "commercials" like Cola or something... So you meant external factors like polls or fandom or something like that....

It depends on the author. If he is wiling to follow the "consumer demand" but not sacrificing the intergrity of the plot/story.. it would be ok... But I could disagree if when there is already a manga/novel before the anime and we already have a closure in those versions. If changing the ending just because the fans" want it then screw him...
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 05:57   Link #3
GreyZone
"Senior" "Member"
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
all those anime/manga adaptions of "dating sims" or "harem visual novels" have this. Multiple endings to choose from and I think the producers usually go for the most popular "route".

Problem is you only find out very late into the adaption which route was chosen and since I never played 1 of the originals in my life, the anime/manga is all I can experience... but this led me to drop a show after 3/4th was already over...
__________________
GreyZone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 08:36   Link #4
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Bleah.

Here I thought we were gonna discuss Akazukin Chacha and its TV original Magical Princess aspect tacked on for toy franchise purpose.

Carry on.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:11   Link #5
Shyni
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: nowhere
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I really thought it was "commercials" like Cola or something...
The biggest example of that I can think of right now is Pizza Hut appearing in Code Geass. Even then, it was more of an amusing detail than anything important.

Quote:
At the same time, stories sometimes get extended beyond the author's plans.
That happened with the Dragon Ball manga, right?
Shyni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 09:24   Link #6
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Watching the Sawks!
Age: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
The biggest example of that I can think of right now is Pizza Hut appearing in Code Geass. Even then, it was more of an amusing detail than anything important.
These kinds of product placements appear in other shows like the Nike "swoosh" in Basquash and the subway billboards for an energy drink in Hataraki Man. The latter had no influence on the content beyond Hiroko drinking one every now and then, but in the case of Basquash, I think Nike was a principal financier for the series.
__________________

Last edited by SeijiSensei; 2013-03-12 at 09:36.
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 16:53   Link #7
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 26
I'm not sure about the Ichigo 100% example being viable (the argument always did strike me as being lacking in terms of actual proof, but I never was that interested in that series or it's history to really give it much research) but in general, JUMP is a magazine which is pretty notorious for its cut throat policy for what makes the cut to success (whatever measure they use to figure it out) so I would imagine that the desire to gain a high amount of commercial success is a very important factor when authors are published for the magazine. (Though that could be a result of the editorial involvement)

The thing is, unless there is actual evidence that proves that Mizuki Kawashita had indeed decided to go with the popular option rather than what made sense in-series (or would've changed her mind if the scales were tipped in favour of another option etc.), we can never know for certain why she went with that direction. For all we know, it could've been what she really though was best and just wanted to write the story in that fashion.

The one example that jumps to my mind of a series that had been affected greatly by commercial factors is the Yu-Gi-Oh manga, and by extension the franchise that spawned from it. From the moment where Kazuki Takahashi changed the focus of the manga to what his readers liked from the array of games he showed, to the end where he changed the focus and had to beat the deadline to finish the manga due to the lack of popularity, and to where the property became a vehicle to the CCG and moved beyond it's original concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Bleah.

Here I thought we were gonna discuss Akazukin Chacha and its TV original Magical Princess aspect tacked on for toy franchise purpose.

Carry on.
Mind sharing that story? It sounds interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
but in the case of Basquash, I think Nike was a principal financier for the series.
From what little I recall of Basquash, outside of the setting and occasional product placement, the sponsors had little influence on the actual content of the show (sadly, it seemed the behind the scenes disputes with the directors was what had the greatest effect).

There was also that huge push by Pizza Hut to appear in any anime that was massively popular a few years back, and recently how car manufacturers such as Nissan and Honda sponsoring shows to promote their products. Though that seemes less about the OP is talking about (those sort of advertisement are made to create an association with what is popular and trendy and help sell more cars/pizza without hiring a real actor or model)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyZone View Post
all those anime/manga adaptions of "dating sims" or "harem visual novels" have this. Multiple endings to choose from and I think the producers usually go for the most popular "route".
Do they? Don't they just go for the default option and only in exceptional circumstances change it to another option?
__________________
Arabesque is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 20:03   Link #8
frivolity
My posts are frivolous
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 26
Lol, dating sims work on a different model. The way I see it, dating-sim-type anime work based on NTR - build up the relationship with one girl who's likely to be very popular and take it away by letting a very annoying/disliked/unpredictable/unpopular girl finish at the end through some unforeseeable or unexplained factor. The idea is that by using NTR, the audience will end up feeling very dissatisfied and unfulfilled, and go purchase the game in order to get the ending for the popular girl.

That seems to be the most likely explanation to me regarding the endings of Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka and Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate.
__________________
frivolity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 21:20   Link #9
hyl
reading #hikaributts
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
That seems to be the most likely explanation to me regarding the endings of Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka and Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate.
The choosen heroines in both series are both the most canonically heroine in the VN (eventhough the heroine choosen in Akasaka can be somewhat debatable if she is actually the more canonically one, but i have less doubts seeing that "that heroine" makes 2 appearances as a cameo (with H-scenes nontheless) in Feng's Hoshikaka and it's fandisc AA)
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 21:24   Link #10
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
That seems to be the most likely explanation to me regarding the endings of Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka .....
Just found out that the endings in the anime and manga are different.... I like the anime better....
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 21:25   Link #11
hyl
reading #hikaributts
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Just found out that the endings in the anime and manga are different.... I like the anime better....
I liked the original VN better than both the manga and anime .....
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-12, 21:29   Link #12
NoemiChan
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philippines
Age: 27
Send a message via Yahoo to NoemiChan Send a message via Skype™ to NoemiChan
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I liked the original VN better than both the manga and anime .....
I have no access to the VN.. but still if I will to play the game... I'll still choose the anime's route..
NoemiChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 01:23   Link #13
aohige
( ಠ_ಠ)
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
Mind sharing that story? It sounds interesting.
The original manga Akazukin Chacha was a cute comedy of red-riding hood girl.
But when they made the anime, since the original manga wasn't as "marketable", the anime director added tons of "sellable toys" to the plot.
Meaning, they turned ChaCha into a transforming magical girl heroine, who uses a wand to transform into a grown-up "Magical Princess".

It was a prime example of commercialism making massive changes to the plot to turn it into profitable franchise.
__________________
aohige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 03:47   Link #14
brocko
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
The Ga-Rei manga was similarly influenced by the anime in much the same way, if you take the view point that an anime is a glorified commercial to sell the original source material anyway. After having her popularity sky-rocket from the anime, the manga recurred Yomi Isayama back into the story, having her as one of the central characters again.
__________________

http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.
brocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 04:24   Link #15
Arabesque
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
It was a prime example of commercialism making massive changes to the plot to turn it into profitable franchise.
Was there a reason why decided to make these changes to the anime? I could understand the reasoning behind it (since Magical Girl and its subtypes are always good places to try and sell to the market) but why not just go and adapt a Magical Princess manga from the get go, or just make an original anime instead?

As a side note, with the anime and manga of Akazukin Chacha being so different, how did this end up affecting the perception of the series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
The Ga-Rei manga was similarly influenced by the anime in much the same way, if you take the view point that an anime is a glorified commercial to sell the original source material anyway.
I think that's another valid example but ... even if that's one of the anime core goal to promote the success of its parent story, that view point is quite extreme since it would mean that ultimately anime exists as a byproduct to raise awareness of manga, etc.
__________________
Arabesque is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 05:23   Link #16
frivolity
My posts are frivolous
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
The choosen heroines in both series are both the most canonically heroine in the VN (eventhough the heroine choosen in Akasaka can be somewhat debatable if she is actually the more canonically one, but i have less doubts seeing that "that heroine" makes 2 appearances as a cameo (with H-scenes nontheless) in Feng's Hoshikaka and it's fandisc AA)
With regard to Koi Choco,
Spoiler:


The same goes for AkaSaka.
Spoiler:
After all, it worked for me.

I wonder, though, how would School Days fit into all this? I suppose it could also be NTR.
__________________

Last edited by frivolity; 2013-03-13 at 07:54. Reason: Added spoiler tags
frivolity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 05:40   Link #17
hyl
reading #hikaributts
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Spoiler for IMO these are Koichoco anime spoilers:
Spoiler for koichoco spoiler:


Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Spoiler for IMO Akasaka spoilers:
Spoiler for Akasaka spoilers:


Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
I wonder, though, how would School Days fit into all this? I suppose it could also be NTR.
Spoiler for spoiler:

Last edited by hyl; 2013-03-13 at 05:50.
hyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 07:47   Link #18
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Watching the Sawks!
Age: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabesque View Post
even if that's one of the anime core goal to promote the success of its parent story, that view point is quite extreme since it would mean that ultimately anime exists as a byproduct to raise awareness of manga, etc.
It was the original motivation for televised anime productions intended for audiences other than children from what I have read. It's still a pretty important factor today. I doubt we would have seen a second round of 48 episodes for Space Brothers or a second season for Chihayafuru if those shows hadn't boosted manga sales substantially.
__________________
SeijiSensei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-13, 11:34   Link #19
synaesthetic
blinded by blood
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Oakland, CA
Age: 30
Send a message via AIM to synaesthetic Send a message via Skype™ to synaesthetic
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocko View Post
The Ga-Rei manga was similarly influenced by the anime in much the same way, if you take the view point that an anime is a glorified commercial to sell the original source material anyway. After having her popularity sky-rocket from the anime, the manga recurred Yomi Isayama back into the story, having her as one of the central characters again.
Since I read/watched both, I'd like to mention that Ga-Rei -Zero- is entirely capable of standing on its own as a story--being a prologue, rather than a sequel, though mostly because it actually ended on a note of finality rather than a huge cliffhanger--at least, as long as you ignore the end credits stinger.

If someone watched GRZ and never heard of or saw the Ga-Rei manga, they'd be satisfied with the ending--I was. I didn't know there was a manga that went along with it. I figured the end-credits stinger was a lead-in to a sequel, not an existing manga property.

GRZ resolves itself internally, and the Big Bad appears defeated at the end, so it's a self-contained story.

Whether or not it affected the source material (read: it totally did, Yomi kept coming back from the dead over and over) and possibly was a result of the source material dying off (I think it was), is a whole other can of worms.
__________________
synaesthetic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-14, 03:05   Link #20
brocko
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
Ga-Rei Zero does a very good job of being a self-contained, stand-alone prequel. But that's besides the point of the thread which is why I didn't mention it. What's relevant is that it clearly influenced the direction of the manga afterwards and was able to draw more attention back towards the original source material. Granted some of those attention may've been misguided and were disappointed as a result since the manga doesn't quite carry the same tone as the anime did, but the influences are still there regardless. Both commercial and narrative.
__________________

http://www.freerice.com/ - For each word you get right, 10 grains of rice is donated through the UN to help end world hunger.

Last edited by brocko; 2013-03-14 at 03:55.
brocko is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.