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Old 2013-04-13, 19:32   Link #1
ReddyRedWolf
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Chinese poachers grounded at Tubbataha reef... Spies?

The pieces of the USS Guardian was just removed this happens.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story...ataha-incident
Quote:

Poaching charges filed vs. Chinese fishermen in Tubbataha incident

Philippine authorities on Wednesday afternoon lodged poaching charges against 12 Chinese fishermen whose vessel ran aground in Tubbataha Reef before midnight last Monday.

The Tubbataha Management Office plans to lodge at least three more charges against the fishermen on Thursday, radio dzBB's James Viernes reported.

The charges were based on Section 27 of Republic Act 10067, the Tubbataha National Park Act. Under Section 27 of the law, "poaching by foreigners" involves the entry of any foreign fishing vessel in the Tubbataha Reef area "shall constitute prima facie evidence that the vessel is engaged in fishing in the area."

It is punishable by imprisonment of six to 12 years in prison, and a fine of $100,000, as well as the forfeiture of the catch, fishing equipment and fishing vessel.

Republic Act 10067 mandates the protection of Tubbataha Reef, a UNESCO World Heritage Site and popular diving destination.

During the inquest proceedings at the provincial prosecutor's office in Puerto Princesa City in Palawan, the Chinese fishermen appeared hungry and munched on crackers, the report said.

Representatives from the Chinese Embassy were present during the proceedings.

After the inquest proceedings, the fishermen are expected to be detained at the Palawan Provincial Jail, the dzBB report said.

Second grounding incident

Shortly before midnight Monday, the Chinese fishermen's vessel ran aground at Tubbataha Reef, three months after a similar incident involving the US Navy minesweeper USS Guardian.

The US vessel was finally extracted two weeks ago and four of its crew members were relieved of their duties for failure to follow standard US Navy navigational procedures, but the Philippine government did not press charges against the ship's sailors.

In a separate report, radio dzBB's Palawan affiliate James Viernes said the Chinese fishers admitted that they were on a fishing venture at the time they entered Tubbataha Reef, after coming from Malaysia.

Speaking with the aid of an interpreter, the fishermen identified the boat captain as Ki Jian Ji but declined to give further details about their intrusion, the report added.

Buffer zone expansion

In a related development, the Philippines is studying the possibility of expanding the area in Tubbataha Reef that is considered restricted after the latest grounding incident, President Benigno Aquino III said Wednesday.

“The bottom line is that we have a law, it’s Republic Act 10067. ‘Entering within the zone, there is presumption poaching is your objective, there are penalties—there is imprisonment, there is a fine—and our job as the executive department is to execute this law,” Aquino told reporters on the sidelines of the groundbreaking of the Roxas Airport Development Project in Roxas City, Capiz.

“There is contemplation to add more lighted buoys and to expand the so-called buffer zone,” Aquino added. — KBK/YA, GMA News
And the twist...

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/tubbataha-m...061004375.html
Quote:

Tubbataha mystery: Some facts don't add up

Puerto Princesa City (Philippine Daily Inquirer/ANN) - Defense officials and investigators in the Philippines looking into the grounding of a Chinese fishing boat on an atoll in Tubbataha Reefs Natural Park may not be dealing with an accident but an intrusion.

A defense official told the Inquirer on Friday that the investigation has found "some facts that don't add up."

For example, the 48-metre Ming Long Yu is supposed to be a fishing vessel but it is not fitted to hold fish.

"It is not even loaded with ice, which is normal to a fishing operation," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, as he had no authorisation to talk to journalists about the investigation.

Angelique Songco, Tubbataha marine park superintendent, confirmed that the Ming Long Yu had no equipment and facilities for fish storage, such as ice makers and refrigerated holds.

The absence of those capabilities indicates that the Ming Long Yu is not a fishing vessel and that the 12 men who have been arrested and charged with poaching and bribery are not fishermen but intruders who have come with a purpose other than fishing.

Are they spies?

But the defense source said the investigators were not ready to make that conclusion or decide the nature of the vessel's grounding on the northern atoll of Tubbataha Reefs, a protected marine sanctuary in a remote area of the Sulu Sea.

Reporters asked Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin if he thought the 12 Chinese nationals were spies. He said that might be the subject of an investigation.

Gazmin said it would be unfair to accuse the 12 men of being spies without sufficient basis.

He said he hoped the grounding of the Ming Long Yu days after the removal of the USS Guardian, a US Navy minesweeper, from Tubbataha was only "coincidental."

But the grounding of two foreign vessels one after the other in Tubbataha should be looked into, Gazmin said.

The Philippine Navy is investigating the January 17 grounding of the USS Guardian and the April 8 grounding of the Ming Long Yu but the intelligence community may also investigate, Gazmin said.

As for what the 12 men of the Ming Long Yu really are, Gazmin said: "We also have our intelligence community that can look into these and analyse and see if indeed they are genuine fishermen or disguised as fishermen."

Francis Chua, the interpreter hired by the Philippine Coast Guard to talk to the 12 Chinese nationals, stated in his affidavit, a copy of which was obtained by the Inquirer, that the men claimed they were sailing to China from Indonesia but lost their way and ended up with their vessel jammed onto an atoll in Tubbataha.

Chua stated that the Chinese claimed they were based in Fujian, China.

"I asked them many questions but they were hesitant to answer," Chua said.

He said the 12 men had no passports or identification cards.

Not like fishermen

Songco said the 12 men did not look like "typical poachers" familiar to marine park rangers. Their physical features are different from Chinese fishermen arrested in the past for poaching in Palawan, she said, but did not elaborate.

Songco said the investigators have sent samples of chemical substances found on the vessel to a laboratory for examination "to determine if those are noxious substances."

The 12 men are detained at the provincial jail in Palawan, which has jurisdiction over Tubbataha Reefs, where the supposed fishermen claimed their vessel was tossed by rough seas on Monday night.

The Tubbataha Management Office brought poaching charges against the 12 men on Tuesday. The next day, it brought bribery charges against them for offering marine park rangers US$2,400 to release them.

Two officials from the Chinese Embassy traveled to Puerto Princesa City on Tuesday and tried but failed to secure the release of the 12 men.

Just helping

The Palace on Friday played down the reported intervention by two Chinese embassy officials. Strategic Communications Secretary Ricky Carandang said Chinese Consul General Shen Zicheng and Third Secretary Li Jian were only trying to help the fishermen, who were charged with poaching in the protected marine sanctuary.

"The Chinese officials were only trying to assist their citizens," Carandang said in a text message.

"For our part, we are only enforcing our laws in our territory," he added.

Shen and Li tried to talk marine park and security officials into releasing the fishermen, whose 48-metre, steel-hulled boat ran aground on the northern atoll of Tubbataha Reefs on Monday night.

But the pleas of the two diplomats were "quietly turned down," a member of the Tubbataha Management Board said.

Songco said by phone that she did not see the visit of Shen and Li as an overture to get the 12 men freed.

She said, however, that she approached Shen during the inquest proceedings at the prosecutor's office on Wednesday to ask him for help in removing the Ming Long Yu from Tubbataha.

She said Shen told her that the vessel owner was a private company and that he did not know how to get in touch with the company.

Salvage operations

A Coast Guard ship and a salvor vessel are sailing to Palawan to look at the Ming Long Yu and plan its extraction from the reef.

Commodore Enrico Efren Evangelista said the weather at Tubbataha remained favourable for the salvage operations, which were expected to take a week to complete.

Evangelista said one option was to refloat the vessel by lightening its load, including siphoning off 80,000 litres of diesel fuel.

He said the vessel's hull was intact and there was no sign of an oil spill.

Tighten security

Bishop Pedro Arigo of Palawan said the grounding of the Ming Long Yu was an unfortunate incident and called on the government to tighten security in the marine sanctuary to prevent groundings of foreign vessels on the reefs.

In a message posted on the Internet news service of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines, Arigo acknowledged that the government lacked resources to enforce maritime laws in the area.

But Arigo said he hoped the government would give the Coast Guard additional funds and modern equipment to enable it to keep poachers and other intruders out of Tubbataha.
http://www.tribune.net.ph/index.php/...oachers’

Quote:

DND presses need to probe 12 Chinese ‘poachers’

Written by Mario J. Mallari
Saturday, 13 April 2013 00:00

Contrary to Malacaņang’s current stand, the Department of National Defense (DND) sees the need to form a task team to investigate the 12 Chinese crew members of a grounded vessel at the Tubbataha Reef to determine whether they are “spies in disguise.”

“The intelligence community must look into this case to determine whether these Chinese fishermen are really what they are or whether they are spies in disguise,” Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin stressed.

He said an inquiry into the latest incident at the Tubbataha Reef, roughly 1,600 kilometers from China’s nearest major landmass, is very logical as the area is restricted to fishing.

Malacaņang the other day downplayed the possibility that the 12 Chinese were involved in espionage.

The 12 Chinese were arrested after their supposed fishing vessel ran aground the Tubbataha Reef last Monday or barely two months after American warship USS Guardian was also grounded in the World Heritage Site-listed marine sanctuary.

Charges of poaching, illegal entry and bribery have been filed against the 12 Chinese who are currently detained at the Palawan Provincial Jail.

Poaching is punishable by at least six years imprisonment, while the corruption case carries 12 years imprisonment and $2,400 fine – the same amount of bribe the fishermen supposedly offered to park rangers.

The charges were based on Section 27 of Republic Act 10067, the Tubbataha National Park Act.

Under Section 27 of the law, “poaching by foreigners” involves the entry of any foreign fishing vessel in the Tubbataha Reef area “shall constitute prima facie evidence that the vessel is engaged in fishing in the area.”

Speculations that the 12 Chinese were not actually fishermen but spies immediately cropped up.

“That will not be missed in the investigation, it will be included,” Gazmin said.

He, however, stressed authorities have no basis yet to support such allegation.

“It is difficult to make any accusation, we should have a basis for accusing these people or suspecting people, it is unfair,” Gazmin added.

But the Defense chief insisted that investigations must also determine whether the grounding was accidental.

He noted that the grounding of the Chinese fishing vessel is very strange considering that the US has just removed the ill-fated USS Guardian last March 30.

“Let’s just hope it’s coincidental. As I said…it means that we need to have an investigation to really know what happened,” Gazmin stressed.

The US minesweeper ran aground off Tubbataha Reef last January. 17

Meanwhile, Malacaņang said it is open to accept “suggestions” on how to protect the country’s marine resources following the Tubbataha incidents.

The Chinese Embassy in Manila had already sent representatives to provide assistance to its nationals who are currently in detention.

The Philippine Coast Guard (PCG) yesterday announced that the hull of the Chinese fishing vessel is structurally sound and can be towed without any danger of sinking or breaking apart.

“We are currently studying measures to prevent further incidents at Tubbataha Reef. We will consider all constructive inputs,” Presidential Communications Development and Strategic Planning Office (PCDSPO) Secretary Ramon Carandang said.

Comdr. Enrico Efren Evangelista, PCG Palawan District head, for his part, said the hull, engines and propellers of the stricken Chinese ship are intact and very much capable of floating again.

“The ship’s hull is intact. It’s not like the case of the USS Guardian, which was badly holed upon her grounding last Jan. 17,” he said.

Evangelista added this is attributable to the Chinese’s ship largely metal structure.

The PCG official pointed out that the American ship sustained heavier damage due to its wooden hull.

He added that defueling or lightening of the Chinese fishing vessel will start once the BRP Corregidor arrives Saturday morning.

Evangelista said BRP Corregidor will be assisted in this endeavor by the BRP Romblon.

The PCG chief said around 8,000 liters of fuel will be removed from the ship aside from other cargoes.

“Once this is done, we will try to tow her (Chinese ship) during the high tide,” Evangelista stressed.
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/04...poachers-spies
Quote:

Were 12 Chinese 'poachers' spies?

ABS-CBNnews.com

Posted at 04/12/2013 3:59 PM | Updated as of 04/12/2013 3:59 PM

MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense on Friday said it will look into reports that 12 Chinese fishermen on a fishing vessel that ran aground at the Tubbataha Reef are actually spies.

Speaking to reporters, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the intelligence community will first investigate the fishermen before making any kind of conclusion.

"We have also our intelligence community that can look into this, analyze and see if indeed they are genuine fishermen or disguised fishermen. It's difficult to just make an accusation. We should have a basis in accusing people or suspecting people. That's unfair," he said.

The 12 Chinese fishermen whose ship grounded in a protected marine sanctuary in the Philippines could face long jail terms after being charged with poaching and bribery, a prosecutor said Thursday.

The fishermen have been in detention since sanctuary rangers found their vessel on Tuesday jammed onto the UN World Heritage-listed Tubbataha Reef, roughly 1,600 kilometers (1,000 miles) from China's nearest major landmass.

Alen Ross Rodriguez, chief prosecutor in the island province of Palawan, said the 12 had been charged with poaching for violating a law that bans fishing in Tubbataha, an isolated reef in the Sulu Sea famed for its spectacular and diverse marine life.

They were also charged with "attempted corruption of public officials" because they tried to bribe the rangers, offering them $2,400 to be released, Rodriguez said.

Both of those charges carry maximum jail sentences of 12 years.

However, Grizelda Mayo-Anda, head of the Environmental Legal Assistance Center in Palawan, said Chinese fishermen caught poaching in Philippine waters were typically deported quickly in an effort to appease China.

"The government has always treated them (fishermen) with kid gloves for political considerations so as not to cause any adverse reaction from China," Mayo-Anda told AFP.

She said more than 600 Chinese fishermen had been caught poaching over the past decade but in nearly every case they spent just a few weeks or months in jail before being deported.

Meanwhile, a Palace spokesman on Friday responded to reports that two ranking officials of the Chinese Embassy in Manila on Thursday asked for the immediate release of the 12 fishermen.

"The Chinese officials are only trying to assist their citizens. For our part, we are only enforcing our laws in our territory," said Secretary Ricky Carandang of the Presidential Communications Development and Strategic Planning Office. With a report from Agence France-Presse
So spies or smugglers?

If they are spies this is the most stupidest spy operation I've ever heard.

If they are spies the president is keeping mum on it. Which brings to question what is their objective?

Does it have to do with the USS Guardian? Looking pieces of US technology?
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Old 2013-04-13, 20:51   Link #2
LeoXiao
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Can't we keep these sort of things in the News thread?
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Old 2013-04-13, 20:54   Link #3
NoemiChan
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Put this in my old "closed" thread.....

Anyway... we can't tell whether they are spies or not.... The fact is they are fishing in our territorial waters DAMN IT!!!!!

Don't tell me, they also want to claim Tubbataha reef?
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:00   Link #4
KiraYamatoFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
So spies or smugglers?

If they are spies this is the most stupidest spy operation I've ever heard.

If they are spies the president is keeping mum on it. Which brings to question what is their objective?

Does it have to do with the USS Guardian? Looking pieces of US technology?
Either way, let them rot in the bottom of some craphole of a jail for a while. It's not for nothing that local laws of any country exist against smuggling and espionnage.
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:05   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan View Post
Either way, let them rot in the bottom of some craphole of a jail for a while. It's not for nothing that local laws of any country exist against smuggling and espionnage.
I hope so. These fisherman are so stubborn and hard headed. They are not just fishing , they're destroying some other peoples' seas and natural resources... these people doesn't care!

Why won't they just invest in our country and produce more jobs for us...
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Old 2013-04-13, 21:07   Link #6
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post

Don't tell me, they also want to claim Tubbataha reef?
The USS Guardian was just removed from there. Put two and two together the objective must scavenging for potential tech left there.

If it is a spy operation they are lacking intelligence as they do not know what grounded on a reef means.

Also what made them suspicious is that the crew look like nerds not experienced fishermen who have muscles for the job. No fish, no ice maker, no fridge.

If they are going for plausible denialbility they failed spectacularly with the sheer amateurishness of it.

Last edited by ReddyRedWolf; 2013-04-14 at 03:50.
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Old 2013-04-13, 22:39   Link #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
The USS Guardian was just removed from there. Put two and two together the objective must scavenging for potential tech left there.

If it is a spy operation they are lacking intelligence as they do not know what grounded on a reef means.

Also what made them suspicious is that the crew look like nerds not experienced fishermen who have muscles for the job. No fish, no ice maker, no fridge.

If they are going for plausible dependability they failed spectacularly with the sheer amateurishness of it.
Yea, kinda like trying to sneak into a construction site pretending to be part of the working crew with no tools or trucks, but wearing suits and riding in a limo
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Old 2013-04-13, 23:23   Link #8
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Don't tell me, they also want to claim Tubbataha reef?
If you do not resist enough they might as well start to think about taking the whole country after re-absorbing Taiwan >_<
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Old 2013-04-13, 23:36   Link #9
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
If you do not resist enough they might as well start to think about taking the whole country after re-absorbing Taiwan >_<
The term the emperors used for their domain in the old days pretty much means "the world". Guess what that entailed for the sovereignity of neighboring peoples.
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Old 2013-04-14, 00:11   Link #10
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Originally Posted by ogon_bat View Post
If you do not resist enough they might as well start to think about taking the whole country after re-absorbing Taiwan >_<
Too bad we got a half chinese president. I'm planing not to vote most of his pets in the senate.... he didn't done anything in Sabah, have planned to enlarged the autonomous region and not insist the claims in the areas being invaded by China
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Old 2013-04-14, 04:43   Link #11
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Too bad we got a half chinese president.
Now don't say that he happens to have Chinese ancestors not a Chinese himself.

I have Chinese ancestry and I don't give squat to the PRC. A Filipino-Chinese wouldn't as well.

A lot of Chinese ever since the old days migrated and assimilated here so they can have opportunities.

Even today a lot of Chinese leave China for the Philippines to immigrate, legally or illegally, so they can get rich.


Quote:
Songco said by phone that she did not see the visit of Shen and Li as an overture to get the 12 men freed.

She said, however, that she approached Shen during the inquest proceedings at the prosecutor's office on Wednesday to ask him for help in removing the Ming Long Yu from Tubbataha.

She said Shen told her that the vessel owner was a private company and that he did not know how to get in touch with the company.
Despite Philippine law stating that penalty for poaching is 12 years we are softies that we let Chinese fishermen wallow in prison for weeks or months before deporting them. As a goodwill gesture to China.

What makes this strange is that Chinese diplomats came to plea, there is nothing strange about that, but denied they know how to communicate with the owners.

That to me is very very strange. If you want to get your people out of a jam you should say fine we'll call them not say we know jack squat about the owner while saying this is owned by a private company.

Also if they are poachers the Philippine public is not feeling lenient thus the government can't show mercy to a bunch that damaged a marine sanctuary for a second time in a year.

If they are agents of the PRC they wont be let off as the blunder they did was too high profile that amounts to an international incident.
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Old 2013-04-14, 05:19   Link #12
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I say the Coast guards should just shoot them in the first place...
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Old 2013-04-14, 05:27   Link #13
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You didn't seriously mean that did you? That would be the stupidest diplomatic move it's possible to make short of declaring war yourself.

Sensationalism is one thing, but judging before all the facts are out has generally never turned out terribly well.
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Old 2013-04-14, 06:07   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
You didn't seriously mean that did you? That would be the stupidest diplomatic move it's possible to make short of declaring war yourself.

Sensationalism is one thing, but judging before all the facts are out has generally never turned out terribly well.
Nah..... our criminal justice is bad... many killings are still unsolved.. Killing a dozen in the middle of the sea.. without other witnesses...
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Old 2013-04-14, 06:49   Link #15
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
You didn't seriously mean that did you? That would be the stupidest diplomatic move it's possible to make short of declaring war yourself.

Sensationalism is one thing, but judging before all the facts are out has generally never turned out terribly well.
Chinese and Russian coast guard have been known to shoot intruders in their territorial waters.

Philippine policy and attitude towards intruders is they are not worth killed... Unless they give reason to be killed like resisting using violence or acting like pirates.

Its a lot like in Manila. You can protest sure it is your right but when you are told not get near either the presidential palace or the US embassy and insist on going there despite the police blocking your way then it wouldn't be surprise if some of the police resort to police brutality as you are too stupid for your well being.
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Old 2013-04-14, 22:20   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Chinese and Russian coast guard have been known to shoot intruders in their territorial waters.

Philippine policy and attitude towards intruders is they are not worth killed... Unless they give reason to be killed like resisting using violence or acting like pirates.

Its a lot like in Manila. You can protest sure it is your right but when you are told not get near either the presidential palace or the US embassy and insist on going there despite the police blocking your way then it wouldn't be surprise if some of the police resort to police brutality as you are too stupid for your well being.
Since when did the Chinese coast guard shoot at anyone other than a few flares? I mean, if China did pop live rounds at people, you would think this would be an international incident already...
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Old 2013-04-14, 23:59   Link #17
ReddyRedWolf
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Since when did the Chinese coast guard shoot at anyone other than a few flares? I mean, if China did pop live rounds at people, you would think this would be an international incident already...
There already was an international incident in disputed territory between China and Vietnam.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-on-fishermen/

Also China doesn't like when their fishermen are shot at for poaching.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86I0PM20120719
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Old 2013-04-15, 00:21   Link #18
Seitsuki
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Note-- accuses. No proof. Refuses to supply details. Forgive me for being just a tad skeptical.

And last time I checked, no country likes it when their nationals are shot at for anything.
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Old 2013-04-15, 10:36   Link #19
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Looks like they weren't spies after all, but they're still in deep horse manure.

Quote:
MANILA, Philippines (AP) -- A Chinese vessel that ran into a protected coral reef in the southwestern Philippines held evidence of even more environmental destruction inside: more than 10,000 kilograms (22,000 pounds) of meat from a protected species, the pangolin or scaly anteater.
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Old 2013-04-15, 11:20   Link #20
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
There already was an international incident in disputed territory between China and Vietnam.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-on-fishermen/

Also China doesn't like when their fishermen are shot at for poaching.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86I0PM20120719
First of all, alternative sources stated the Chinese vessel fired Flares. That is quite different than firing live rounds like the Russian Coast Guards did--On a chinese ship no less.

And all other articles did not indicate what kind of vessels it is~ Is it actually flying coast guard colors? Proof please. If those guys happen to be non-governmental agents (I.E smugglers) then it is a completely different story.
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