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Old 2013-12-08, 06:22   Link #941
venshade
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I was very touched in touma's confession.
btw can I ask who are ones who played this game? there is something I want to ask
just PM me
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Old 2013-12-08, 06:36   Link #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf View Post
Although all is carried out so well up to this point, IMHO the balance isn't that good. Setsuna's weight seems to be too light in Haruki's heart, and his feeling for Kazusa is going burst out by this revelation, so Kazusa's weight is too much.

They should have made the relationship between Haruki and Setsuna closer before the stage, to show that both of them are very important to Haruki.....and make the emotion for both sides more painful.
But this isn't supposed be balanced in first place and I don't think there is anythink wrong with that.
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Old 2013-12-08, 06:57   Link #943
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And with the latest episode, I congratulate White Album 2 for being in the same tier as True Tears and ef tale of memories. I didn't think it would -quite- get there, but it appears I underestimated it despite how good it was. After 5 years I finally see a romance anime that was able to match the caliber of those two and it's an understatement to say it's a delight.

So much emotion in this episode... human emotion, warranted emotion. The buildup that was happening, the trainwreck that we all saw coming is now imminent as some of the wheels have started to come off. It's only going to get more uglier from now on (or more beautiful of a tragedy for me). This episode in particular reminded me excerpts of those top-end korean dramas (not the typical b-tier trash). It was elegantly tragic and beautiful and I was left completely dumbfounded. It's jumped to my undisputed favourite of the season, and is a clear nominee for anime of the year depending on how it finishes.

And there better be a season 2 or else I'm going to be mad as hell
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Old 2013-12-08, 08:24   Link #944
Tenzen12
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I would agree if I didn't droped later and former weren't so much from Okada. For me neither of them can get close either to WA2 nor Pet Kanojo
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Old 2013-12-08, 10:04   Link #945
Alf
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
But this isn't supposed be balanced in first place and I don't think there is anythink wrong with that.
Sorry, it's just a little rant from a player of the game.

But if you consider the conversation between Touma and Haruki after the stage in the piano room, the hana vs. yatsu (flower and...person?) analogy is actually kind of putting the two on a pair of balanced position. And Haruki didn't really showed that enough of affection for him to say "flower", and to accept Setsuna so easily.
Spoiler for comparision with the game, don't read if want to better preserve the emotion for this ep and better experience for following eps:

But perhaps anime only viewers would feel differently and it's a very precious experience.
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Old 2013-12-08, 10:19   Link #946
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by Alf View Post
Sorry, it's just a little rant from a player of the game.

But if you consider the conversation between Touma and Haruki after the stage in the piano room, the hana vs. yatsu (flower and...person?) analogy is actually kind of putting the two on a pair of balanced position. And Haruki didn't really showed that enough of affection for him to say "flower", and to accept Setsuna so easily.
Spoiler for comparision with the game, don't read if want to better preserve the emotion for this ep and better experience for following eps:

But perhaps anime only viewers would feel differently and it's a very precious experience.
well i'm a anime only and agree with you, the anime make haruki looks like dont have any ffelings toward setsuna and just accepted her confession out of blank, the onsen episode was so painfulll see haruki almost completly ignore setsuna and act like she is just a something at his side, if haruki was so aware of his feelings toward touma from the beginner as he claimed why his accepted setsuna confession in first place???? if he see himlsef a trash/garbage and useless man why he accepted so easy setsuna since she is the miss popular girl from the school?? how he can easy accept the most hard girld but dont have confidence to accept a "lets say" more easy girl (touma)?? this anime is so inconsistent in show how really the characters deal with the things.

the only thing i see is a sort of "for the sake of drama" poor write plot with random feelings being throwed, this is how i feel watching this anime, just to make a awesome drama with many tear jerkings and heartbreak let's throw some random romance horrible developed.


i can even go furter and say who after haruki accept setsuna confession their relationship downgrade instead of evolve, before their start to date haruki was more friendly toward setsuna but after he just started to ignore/forget her, really like a date game where since he already cleaned her route now it's start to move to next girl and forget the current one since she already take.

is very weird when "another girl" need to keep you remember who you already have a girlfriend and that girlfriend is her best friend and he turn setsuna in basically a consolation prize

Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-12-08 at 10:32.
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Old 2013-12-08, 10:54   Link #947
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Touma more easy? how can getting someone who you don't know very well about her emotion become easier than the girl that bluntly said that she love you....
Haruki feels like that just because it was from the point of view of Kazusa, but then again denied with Kazusa... it was just like what Kazusa said.. "What is wrong to fall in love with a boring person?"
ignore? is he ignoring the girl that he hugged in front of Kazusa?
in the onsen, Haruki was still thinking of Setsuna but try to be indifferent just like how Setsuna actually wanted it "when there are the three of us, Kazusa is an important person and Haruki is an important 'friend'", this maybe because even though she had hurt Kazusa, she didn't want to act so lovey-dovey in front of Kazusa because she knew about Kazusa's feelings....
This indifferent act of Haruki actually made Kazusa feel uncomfortable, because if he kept doing it Kazusa would remain to be in love with him and kept getting hurt seeing the two of them always... that's why Kazusa kept reminding him to be nice to his girlfriend only which Haruki actually did a bit but still with consideration towards Kazusa so as not to be left out from the three of them

It's not a thrown away romance... the drama is actually neat, and very well written...
I think, Haruki accepted Setsuna's confession not because he really love her, well maybe a bit of love, but not really love in romance way instead it's because of the feelings for not wanted to break their relationship (it's usual to see the one rejecting and the one rejected to feel awkward with each other)
well rather than Haruki's feelings towards Setsuna, I'm more interested why Setsuna chose him... is it actually just because Haruki is different with the guys that ogling over her or....
and if they really want a tearjerking and heartbreaking scene, they might better include a death of the heroine.... but, that's not the point in making this series
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Old 2013-12-08, 12:13   Link #948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf View Post
Sorry, it's just a little rant from a player of the game.

But if you consider the conversation between Touma and Haruki after the stage in the piano room, the hana vs. yatsu (flower and...person?) analogy is actually kind of putting the two on a pair of balanced position. And Haruki didn't really showed that enough of affection for him to say "flower", and to accept Setsuna so easily.
Spoiler for comparision with the game, don't read if want to better preserve the emotion for this ep and better experience for following eps:

But perhaps anime only viewers would feel differently and it's a very precious experience.
I don't think it was ever balanced. Haruki's heart has been decided from the start.

SPOILER Game scene: The anime has already passed this scene.
It is an internal monologue, but since the anime doesn't show internal monologues, you'll never get to see it in the show

Spoiler:


Edit: I think the drama is happening BECAUSE things are not balanced. As some may have pointed out. Setsuna is his girlfriend and he should prioritize her. She should have the advantage. But she's doesn't. That means something else upset that advantage

.
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Old 2013-12-08, 18:07   Link #949
Arya
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Well I won't go that far as Pocari_Sweat putting WA2 on tier with True Tears, but surely it is definitely the show that comes closer by far for my standards.

My only minor minor complains, as already pointed out, is that it would have been more powerful (for me) drama-wise if it had been a not so unbalanced triangle. Knowing that Haruki loved her the whole time lessened a bit the impact of her beautiful confession. And the fact that I agree with Tenzen12 about Haruki.

But I can condone anything to WA2 because that scene was beautiful. And Touma is really the best tsundere ever. So much that I can't really say she really is or not
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Old 2013-12-09, 00:00   Link #950
Alf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
well i'm a anime only and agree with you, the anime make haruki looks like dont have any ffelings toward setsuna and just accepted her confession out of blank, the onsen episode was so painfulll see haruki almost completly ignore setsuna and act like she is just a something at his side, if haruki was so aware of his feelings toward touma from the beginner as he claimed why his accepted setsuna confession in first place???? if he see himlsef a trash/garbage and useless man why he accepted so easy setsuna since she is the miss popular girl from the school?? how he can easy accept the most hard girld but dont have confidence to accept a "lets say" more easy girl (touma)?? this anime is so inconsistent in show how really the characters deal with the things.
Touma was never easy to approach and only Setsuna managed to open her up. She had always put a wall to Haruki, who just keep approaching. There were various events in the anime that showed Haruki's inability to catch her signals and thought she's unreachable. So it has nothing to do with consistancy on Touma-Haruki side. It's the Haruki Setsuna side having one strange point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
the only thing i see is a sort of "for the sake of drama" poor write plot with random feelings being throwed, this is how i feel watching this anime, just to make a awesome drama with many tear jerkings and heartbreak let's throw some random romance horrible developed.
I think it depends on what do you see as natural. IMHO it's the "flower and person" turning point being strange, and Setsuna's confession was following this turning point. There were events that was intented to show the relationship between Haruki and Setsuna, such as the escape from cosplay cafe and the interaction on the train. But at the weight wasn't enough, and I read "friend zone hand grap" somewhere. I still feel the drama is carried out very well, but the anime is actually rearranged to change the balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I don't think it was ever balanced. Haruki's heart has been decided from the start.

SPOILER Game scene: The anime has already passed this scene.
It is an internal monologue, but since the anime doesn't show internal monologues, you'll never get to see it in the show

Spoiler:


Edit: I think the drama is happening BECAUSE things are not balanced. As some may have pointed out. Setsuna is his girlfriend and he should prioritize her. She should have the advantage. But she's doesn't. That means something else upset that advantage.
And it's Haruki being attracted to Touma to the point that he's unable to bear losing her. This is very clear. But balance of things are not just to whom Haruki is being attracted more. The difference of attitude, interaction, expectations, etc. are all counted. But it is necessary for Haruki to be attracted to Setsuna enough to even start any romance and depart from Touma. Setsuna had the advantage of girlfriend but it was used for getting the three together. Haruki should prioritize his girlfriend but the heart doesn't work for what you should do.
Spoiler for response to game spoiler:

Since it's the original writer who written the script, the quality is still there, but it seems the drama effect is changed intentionally. I'm kind of understanding it but still think it would be much better in a more balanced way.
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Old 2013-12-09, 00:11   Link #951
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I think the flower and person scene was meant to further discourage Kazusa.
It worked

As far as balance goes, I'm pretty sure that Haruki wavering and seemingly forcing himself to commit to Setsuna was in the game too.
Unless that's not what you mean
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Old 2013-12-09, 00:44   Link #952
Alf
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I think the flower and person scene was meant to further discourage Kazusa.
It worked

As far as balance goes, I'm pretty sure that Haruki wavering and seemingly forcing himself to commit to Setsuna was in the game too.
Unless that's not what you mean
In the anime, that became the only meaning of that scene now.

Perhaps there's some difference in the meaning of balance here. For me it was meant for the weight of relationships, which directly links to the emotion generated when the whole thing falls apart. Haruki forced himself to commit to Setsuna in the later half for sure, but before the stage event much more weight was on Setsuna's side to make her so dear in the game than in the anime. But, this is a feeling with prior experice with the game so I could be wrong on the effect.
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Old 2013-12-09, 01:10   Link #953
ellessarr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon_Lelouch View Post
Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf View Post
Spoiler:

let me try to explain better my point, well haruki call himself a loser and fail and touma is too perfect for him, right??? but aside she being a genius with music being a "school" student come from that standpoint she is a "average" student who besides being tsundere stubborn is not a real "impossible dream girl" who everyone in the school aiming, he is the only who really notice or talk with her most of their classmaters ignore her(not because their hate her or something like that, just because their way she keep her alone and separated from the others from the class) right


then we have in the other side setsuna who was miss popular girl for 2 years, who is the all my dreams girl of the school who probabily most of the guys and even some girls "love".

now come from that standpoint what is the most easy "love" to deal, a average girl who actually you already know and be friend or a new awesome popular girl(almost a princess type)???? looking from the "loser standpoint" what girl will be "more easy to conquest???

and even when we know who from the beginner he already was in love with the girl from the beginner.

like touma said, haruki get setsuna basically as a booby prize, since he dont have confident to confess to the girl who he like then he accepted the confession from the girl who he dont like and just started to make her suffer and gonna make her even suffer more and like i told if him "being a loser" could accept so easy the confession from the "perfect girl from the school" why he not tried with the girl who he was in love who is supposed "more easy" come from the weight of each girl have.

i keep really blame more haruki than the girls, the girls did what their thing was right for then do

setsuna fighted for her love and get it, while touma for the sake of friendship give up on him, but haruki not really "give up on touma" he keep giving her some "hopes" which even ended upseting her(making the things more weird), if he had actually given up Touma as he did seem at the time he accepted setsuna, he should not have continued acting in front of her as being romantic with his girlfriend something entirely forbidden or even giving a minimum of attention and that he should give not be acting so coldly with setstuna most often in front of touma.

if him wanted both he must tried since setsune clear showed signs who she not will be upset to share him with touma

and "being" dense never was a "real good trait" to use, as excuse for a character act like haruki act, since at last for all the experience who i have and see friends and others peoples have, this not a "real trait" this is just a "japanese clich used to generate a unreal drama(where we have girls obvious in love with the mc but for a supernatural or beyond the imagination the mc can't see this even if a girl come to him and say who she loves him(this not his full case but this is how "dense japaneses mcs" are).

for me will be following a more logic standpoint is more believable if for him was more "hard" to accept setsuna than touma for the reason he give, setsuna being the standart dreamgirl is a much more hard to conquest and beare girl from a guy with low selfconfidence than touma, only for haruki who touma is a unreachable girl, if we follow logic any other male stundent could say who "setsuna is the hard".

Last edited by ellessarr; 2013-12-09 at 01:42.
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Old 2013-12-09, 01:15   Link #954
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Originally Posted by Alf View Post
In the anime, that became the only meaning of that scene now.

Perhaps there's some difference in the meaning of balance here. For me it was meant for the weight of relationships, which directly links to the emotion generated when the whole thing falls apart. Haruki forced himself to commit to Setsuna in the later half for sure, but before the stage event much more weight was on Setsuna's side to make her so dear in the game than in the anime. But, this is a feeling with prior experice with the game so I could be wrong on the effect.
Well. the game isn't animated. I'm pretty sure that's a big reason, in addition to possible difference in interpretation.
I myself didn't expect a few things. Haruki crying his eyes like a stream for instance. I played the game and I still didn't expect that. I pictured him being angry and frustrated. Not necessary like that.

Also Kazusa's "ikemen mode" moments where she does something cool and the wind blows behind her hair for no reason.. xd..
I'm sure that weren't in the game.

Edit: Also Setsuna biting her lip in an earlier episode. That really surprised me
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Old 2013-12-09, 01:29   Link #955
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NTR anime of this season!!!! WTF?!

The tears, the hate, the drama!!! I hate it!!!! Hahaha!!!!
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Old 2013-12-09, 02:01   Link #956
Clodial
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Oh, but the drama XD

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Originally Posted by NoemiChan View Post
NTR anime of this season!!!! WTF?!

The tears, the hate, the drama!!! I hate it!!!! Hahaha!!!!
Oh, but that's what makes this show sooooooo interesting

I loved that confession scene XD
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Old 2013-12-09, 05:16   Link #957
Alf
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
now come from that standpoint what is the most easy "love" to deal, a average girl who actually you already know and be friend or a new awesome popular girl(almost a princess type)???? looking from the "loser standpoint" what girl will be "more easy to conquest???
Because the feeling of how hard is it to reach in a relationship is subjective, and Haruki is biased by how much he knew about each of the girls.

Setsuna has been showing interest to him in a way that is easy to understand, to allow a guy to actually dream about it. And she actually shown to Haruki that she's not really the idol everyone thought her to be, with all the strange ways and normal girl side. So she's not an unreachable princess for Haruki.

On the other hand, Touma has been making herself seemingly unreachable, which is a problem for tsundere. The way she shown her affection are deep under the water, while using all the hard attitude to hide her feelings. Haruki only know Touma is cool and uncaring for other people's opinions, while actually willing to do something for others. But never thought it was for him. He has been placing Touma in an imaginary high position, while in fact she is in need of love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
if him wanted both he must tried since setsune clear showed signs who she not will be upset to share him with touma

and "being" dense never was a "real good trait" to use, as excuse for a character act like haruki act, since at last for all the experience who i have and see friends and others peoples have, this not a "real trait" this is just a "japanese clich used to generate a unreal drama(where we have girls obvious in love with the mc but for a supernatural or beyond the imagination the mc can't see this even if a girl come to him and say who she loves him(this not his full case but this is how "dense japaneses mcs" are).
Actually it's not limited to Japanese MCs. Misunderstanding is basic rules for romantic dramas, and dense MC is part of it. And IRL it's really frustrating to keep approaching a girl who keeps you away even if she showed some hint of interest. In many cases, overthinking is not good for relationship in developing stages so being dense is actually sort of good strategy for some male, while female can always play dumb.

As to who to blame, once the fact is clear it's up to people to decide whether to blame anyone or not, though I don't blame any of them myself.
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Well. the game isn't animated. I'm pretty sure that's a big reason, in addition to possible difference in interpretation.
I myself didn't expect a few things. Haruki crying his eyes like a stream for instance. I played the game and I still didn't expect that. I pictured him being angry and frustrated. Not necessary like that.

Also Kazusa's "ikemen mode" moments where she does something cool and the wind blows behind her hair for no reason.. xd..
I'm sure that weren't in the game.

Edit: Also Setsuna biting her lip in an earlier episode. That really surprised me
I similar feeling for those anime presentations, which is actually a pleasent surprise that they use presentations only possible in anime to replace some of the texts.
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Old 2013-12-09, 05:25   Link #958
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I think Kazusa's issues are more than just being a tsundere
She's also socially stunted because of a bizarre upbringing and she probably has some self worth issues when it comes to Haruki. Ie: She is a delinquent and he's a role model student.

No thanks to the discouraging words from the teachers, I'm sure.
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Old 2013-12-09, 08:37   Link #959
germanturkey
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can someone refresh my memory? what "person and flower" scene?
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Old 2013-12-09, 09:01   Link #960
Mentar
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can someone refresh my memory? what "person and flower" scene?
It was the scene right after the concert, where Haruki returned to Kazusa's music room. Musing that he was now able to get close to the flower ("hana" - implied Setsuna) he always admired from afar, and the person ("hito" or maybe even "yatsu", I don't remember - implied Kazusa) who he always thought was cool.

The way he worded it sent an implicit message which Kazusa read so that unlike Setsuna (the flower) she (a mere person) was no material for romance for him. Which caused her to cry at the piano.
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