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Old 2013-04-07, 01:17   Link #41
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Completely personally speaking, that's my preference too. I always found it weird to have a header that contains threads while also having sub-forums (my brain says that there should be an "other" and the header should just be a header). But other people do like that approach and it does have a precedent here. So, my preference aside, I can see both sides.
Or not having that other at all.
A header does not need to have a link to a thread or any other kind of text, maybe the Rules, not more.
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Old 2013-04-07, 01:21   Link #42
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Just make "General News" subforum in "General Anime" for "General anime news" stuff

also how do you short out Manga and LN? first released?
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Old 2013-04-07, 01:24   Link #43
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
Just make "General News" subforum in "General Anime" for "General anime news" stuff
That wouldn't make much sense.
General Anime is for overall things about anime that do not fit in other already-existing Anime Forum sections.
General News on the other hand is a forum section that focuses on news in real life around the world.

What a Sub-forum actually is, is a forum section that has the same general idea as the main section, it is just more detailed and specialised.
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Old 2013-04-07, 01:26   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Or not having that other at all.
A header does not need to have a link to a thread or any other kind of text, maybe the Rules, not more.
Well, I was talking about Current Series/Older Series in this case. Right now every series that does not have a sub-forum can be found in the root. In my brain, there should be nothing in the root and a sub-forum called "Other" where all the series that don't have a sub-forum go. But I'm not proposing changing that now because everyone's used to it, and it's just my preference. It's just an example of the way my own brain thinks.
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Old 2013-04-07, 01:29   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post

What a Sub-forum actually is, is a forum section that has the same general idea as the main section, it is just more detailed and specialised.

sorry bit sleepy i mean "Other/General Discussion"
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Old 2013-04-07, 01:32   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, I was talking about Current Series/Older Series in this case. Right now every series that does not have a sub-forum can be found in the root. In my brain, there should be nothing in the root and a sub-forum called "Other" where all the series that don't have a sub-forum go. But I'm not proposing changing that now because everyone's used to it, and it's just my preference. It's just an example of the way my own brain thinks.
And I'm personally really grateful for you to point that out.
More possibilities are given, better the chance it is to actually come up with an overall great organization.
Even if you feel like you're the only one that would blend in that, it is usually quite the opposite at the forums of this size. (Community-looking)

I would personally have no objection to that either, sounds good to me too.
There are plenty of options on which to pick, we are trying to find out the ones that would fit for the biggest part of the community, but I think that we can all agree that the main point of this reorganization is to balance the forums' activity out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW View Post
sorry bit sleepy i mean "Other/General Discussion"
I forgot we even have an Other Discussion.
Yeah, does make sense, the two are actually the same.
Edit: Or no, wait, you got me confused again.
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Old 2013-04-07, 02:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Maybe it makes more sense to put the "News" in the "business section"?
It'd certainly make more sense than the events and convention section. Although I'm sure you'd have people arguing for where exactly is best (business vs general/other for example), due to the broad nature of news (using Satoshi Kon's death again from Irenicus). But I can live with either cases this time

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I *think* what you're suggesting instead is that you keep the top-level forum a real forum ("General Anime"), and then sub-forums for specializations. In that sense, I guess it'd be exactly like Current Series/Older Series. And in that scenario, I can see what you mean about keeping the news at the top.

In that scenario, you would have:

General Anime <-- topics that don't fit in a sub-section would go here in the root
- Events and Conventions
- Companies, People, and Metrics
- Suggestions, Recommendations, and Identification
- Likes, Dislikes, Contests, and Favourites

(There are some other proposals for changes to the groupings, but this is sort of as a baseline.)
Bingo. You've got the idea right on the money. It just seems strange to me to have an empty root/header, consistency wise at least since it'd look similar but operate differently to Current Series/Older Series.
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Old 2013-04-07, 10:37   Link #48
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Tbh this just looks like you're marginalizing general topics.

With this set up people are just going to be confined to certain sections and there will no longer be a pool for everyone site wide to participate in broad discussion on topics we can all relate to.

Being relatively new here one problem I've come to face is the sheer amount of groupthink the current set up promotes. There are so few areas so post general topics (aka, topics that have the potential to get the most amount of varied replies) I feel like cutting them down even further would be worse. Sure it okay for the folks who're long time visitors who have certain areas of the board they feel most comfortable, but it really does alienate newcomers like myself.
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Old 2013-04-07, 11:32   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Write View Post
Tbh this just looks like you're marginalizing general topics.

With this set up people are just going to be confined to certain sections and there will no longer be a pool for everyone site wide to participate in broad discussion on topics we can all relate to.
I think there will still be plenty of places for people to post what they want under the proposed setup, but just posting things in the most general area possible to try to get the most replies also causes its own set of problems. Namely that the topics some people want to create tend to drown out other topics, and it becomes harder to find topics that are of interest between all the ones that don't interest you. And also, although some thread starters may want to reach out to as many people as possible, that isn't necessarily what everyone else wants (particularly when the topic has already gone through many rounds). So that's why the forum is divided into sub-forums in the first place.

That being said, if you prefer to see everything as a giant pool, you can use the New Posts link to see all threads in a flat list sorted by what's recent. I have known people who use this as their main way to interact with the site, preferring to get a cross-section of the entire forum rather than go from section to section.
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Old 2013-04-07, 12:03   Link #50
vaden
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I personally would love for "Companies, People, and Metrics" to split off into its own subforum, since it's the one thing I go to General Anime for now.
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Old 2013-04-07, 12:16   Link #51
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Originally Posted by vaden View Post
I personally would love for "Companies, People, and Metrics" to split off into its own subforum, since it's the one thing I go to General Anime for now.
Could you tell that a big part of the members overall visit it for the same reasons as you do?
Although it may be a bit hard, try being objective here.
Think like you are a Staff member that has to satisfy everyone. That cannot be, so you'll go with the biggest part. Of course, if your request is the same as the still-unknown requests of others, it would be no problem.
Checking the activity of the threads at that forum section would be the easiest way to check that theory out.
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Old 2013-04-07, 12:19   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Could you tell that a big part of the members overall visit it for the same reasons as you do?
I think these threads have a regular, loyal following, at any rate.

One of the reasons we thought about grouping it into a sub-forum was because that way all the threads about major studios and people can be found in one place, without having to search through all the threads about different topics. It's sort of like how all the threads about anime series are all in one place rather than being interspersed with other random anime topics.

Not saying it has to be that way... but, again, at least my own brain likes to keep similar things together.
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Old 2013-04-07, 12:25   Link #53
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Well, those topics are the strongest and most talked-about in the real life, so I would agree on having them in their own sub-forum as well.
However, if we would have that kind of a "Social Statuses Sub-Forum", I would suggest creating a Sticky thread by the name "Philosophy" right away.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:07   Link #54
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Basically we want to create enough (not less or more) traffic for each subforum while keep it nicely orginised. lets observe one by one

General Anime
- News
This certainly will be populated depending on flow of news. but conversial stuff like "loli ban" will be heavily discussed.
- Anime "Hobby" (Figurines, Cosplay, Conevection)
Figurines and Cosplay probably only have 1 thread. also this stuf tend to be closely connected to the convetion so i think is better to put it on one sub forum
- Anime "Business" (Studio, Ranking, Sales)
No need further explanation. just move those Studio, Sales, Ranking, etc thread.
- Suggestions, Recommendations, and Identification
No need further explanation. BUT I think is better to put "Likes, Dislikes, Contests, and Favourites" since it related to Recommendation. but if you think it easier to make separated Anime "Opinion" then go ahead
- Other Discussion
Yes i think this should been put as separated subforum instead root. for better organised and newbie tend to make thread in here even thought there is already sub forum that dealing with that thread. basically stuff that doesn't fit other Subforum. probably borderline stuff also like "Mecha anime is DOOMED" and OP explain it because lack of interest, poor sales, expensive to make, etc

General Chat
- News and Current Events
General news thread, along with Science & Technology should be here. possibly along with serious dicussion like philosophy
- Social
Basically Sport, Entertainment, Hobbies and Fun. probably some RL problem like depression and such

EDIT:

Thought you can make seperated Hobbies and Entertainment subforum that strictly contain about Movie, Football, Photography, etc while Social subforum contain Laugh a day, Rate That Avatar!, "I NEED HELP!" stuff.

other should be no problem
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:36   Link #55
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From my experience, the more segmentation your forum has, the less activity it actually gets. I can already tell you that if AS decides to pursue such a policy with he general anime and general chat subforums, I'll probably stop visiting those sections altogether. I have less incentive to click on those links than a more general encompassing subforum. While general might be more chaotic, it also gives us a nice holistic picture of all sorts of conversations in the anime world (and for general everything else). I can click on those links and then participate in all sorts of conversations without having to look through like 10 different subforums.

Yes, I am lazy, but I am pretty sure most people on the interwebs are lazy. So personally, I don't like this idea.

The only things I support are the splitting of light novels into their own section, and perhaps giving likes/dislikes/contests/favourties its own section. Other than that, I don't see the benefit of this approach whatsoever. It also just seems like more work for the moderators since now there are even more sections to police around here and they have to make sure that everything is on topic for those sections.

Also, the fansubs subforum seems pretty worthless and archaic, so not sure why we still have it.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:39   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
General Anime <-- topics that don't fit in a sub-section would go here in the root
- Events and Conventions
- Companies, People, and Metrics
- Suggestions, Recommendations, and Identification
- Likes, Dislikes, Contests, and Favourites
Where did the sales and merchandise stuff go? Anyway, after a bit of rethinking, I agree that the Companies, People and Metrics subforum may be useful. My suggestion would be for you to follow the Anime subforums' current organization of subject-specific threads. You can leave it to the members to do it by themselves, though (ala the manga subforum, which never had to "request" threads).

And I would put my money on either Mari Okada or KyoAni to get the first thread.

Quote:
General Chat <-- topics that don't fit in a sub-section would go here in the root
- News and Current Events
- Sports and Entertainment
- Hobbies and Fun

Is this getting us closer to the right balance?
Yes. Although RRW's recommendation to make Entertainment section include Hobbies (i.e. Hobbies and Entertainment, with current sports threads being moved there as well), while leaving the Fun forum on its own is an interesting alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW
no I mean Sticky news thread in Music, Game, Manga, etc
Forums rule of thumb 101: don't sticky unless you have to. Sticky isn't where you go to get free-flowing discussions, it's where you get rules, faqs, things the forums people REALLY want you to know, and simple Q-and-A's. The "I came to this forum to ask just one question so can you help me?" threads go there.

That's what forums users are trained to do, at least for the ones that bother with stickies at all.

Leave discussions on free flow. Even in the current stuffed up General Chat the News Stories thread rarely leaves first page (that it does at all actually reveals the problem).

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRW
No need further explanation. BUT I think is better to put "Likes, Dislikes, Contests, and Favourites" since it related to Recommendation. but if you think it easier to make separated Anime "Opinion" then go ahead
The problem is that those are very different kinds of threads. In the General Anime forum, people keep creating and resurrecting I-hate, I-love anime topics and the mods keep locking them. They are very different from the very "practical" suggestions forum, where people go to get answers, not to be told their taste is bad and they should feel bad.

I think one of the impulses for this reorganization is probably because they get tired of locking the threads and holding back the obviously present impulse of anime fans to broadcast their one true feelings here, while not allowing these to drown out other topics and make people like me get annoyed and start to flame people.

_________

IMO I also see this reorganization as a chance to usefully "reclaiming" main forum space and form from the "Social Group ghetto" that things are sometimes shuttled into. Though not everything need to be brought back out in the open, of course (the fan clubs for example).
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:47   Link #57
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I think the only part of the forum that needs to be reorganized would be the Current/Old & Manga/Light Novels everything else I believe is just fine.
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Old 2013-04-07, 13:59   Link #58
Write
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That being said, if you prefer to see everything as a giant pool, you can use the New Posts link to see all threads in a flat list sorted by what's recent. I have known people who use this as their main way to interact with the site, preferring to get a cross-section of the entire forum rather than go from section to section.
The default view is what influences the entire board. New Posts won't help solve the issue of sections becoming dead because they're too spread out. You'd be better to at least keep one common section for people to discuss anime. I mean general is barely that as it is so I'm not seeing why you have such a high interest in killing it altogether.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:39   Link #59
vaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Could you tell that a big part of the members overall visit it for the same reasons as you do?
Although it may be a bit hard, try being objective here.
Think like you are a Staff member that has to satisfy everyone. That cannot be, so you'll go with the biggest part. Of course, if your request is the same as the still-unknown requests of others, it would be no problem.
Checking the activity of the threads at that forum section would be the easiest way to check that theory out.
I'm just here to voice my opinion about the reorganization, not dictate how things should be done. You can take it into consideration or discount it as you wish.

In any case, it just occurred to me that using the prefix tags might be a good way to have "soft" organization if we don't end up splitting the General Anime subforum, since there's at least the option to filter by tag for those who want it.
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Old 2013-04-07, 14:41   Link #60
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Originally Posted by Write View Post
The default view is what influences the entire board. New Posts won't help solve the issue of sections becoming dead because they're too spread out. You'd be better to at least keep one common section for people to discuss anime. I mean general is barely that as it is so I'm not seeing why you have such a high interest in killing it altogether.
I don't think anyone has a "high interest in killing" discussion at all. But currently we are already killing certain discussion topics because they tend to clutter up the all-purpose general sections. See also these points:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
I think one of the impulses for this reorganization is probably because they get tired of locking the threads and holding back the obviously present impulse of anime fans to broadcast their one true feelings here, while not allowing these to drown out other topics and make people like me get annoyed and start to flame people.

[...]

IMO I also see this reorganization as a chance to usefully "reclaiming" main forum space and form from the "Social Group ghetto" that things are sometimes shuttled into. Though not everything need to be brought back out in the open, of course (the fan clubs for example).
I also see it this way. It seems preferable to me to allow a bit more open conversation, but place it in an appropriate location. Having everything in one free-for-all section has some benefits, but it can also have its share of drawbacks. The heart of the proposal is to allow some of the more (arguably) "pointless" threads to have a rightful place without cluttering up the main section, giving both a bit of breathing room.

Basically (speaking for myself, but this proposal was also discussed with the other mods before posting it here), I'm not too satisfied with the balance we have right now, because it seems to me that a) there are a lot of people who want to discuss things more freely, and we're constantly trying to hold them back (i.e. stop creating so many best/worst threads, closing repetitive opinion threads, etc.), and b) the prevalence of these sorts of threads in the general sections may cause some people to lose interest entirely (because they can't be bothered to separate the wheat from the chaff). I'd rather create places for everyone to be able to create the sorts of posts that interest them and allow that to thrive, rather than this sort of awkward middleground.

Of course, I acknowledge that nothing will please everyone, and fear of making a controversial change is sometimes what keeps us locked in the status quo. There's also nothing that says that we can't change our minds later as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Where did the sales and merchandise stuff go?
I was grouping it into "Metrics", but perhaps the label could use further refinement.

Edit: Merchandise is a bit of an open-issue though. For example, where's the best fit for the "Anime Figurines Thread"? Perhaps it just stays in the General Anime root (if we go that way)?
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