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Old 2013-04-19, 14:47   Link #261
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Yeah, Hashirama can probably grow back his arm or part of it.
this confuses me...
i was pointing out that madara likley only needed some of hashiramas blood we he could have taken from the conveniently exposed left arm

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Now that mention it, it seems quite clear that Madara not seeing the wood clone is impossible. However i think that simply moving a little bit would not work, so it had to be something else.
i was thinking along the lines of what sasuke did to danzo to make him think there was still time left for the izanagi jutsu...in this case, madara launches a small scale genjutsu (since he sees through the wood clone) and makes it so that it appears he suffered a mortal wound.

plus, did hashirama not care enough to at least bury his friend???
i dont know how his survival will be revealed but if he was left for dead and got up and drag that wood clone body away...grrrr
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Old 2013-04-19, 15:41   Link #262
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
this confuses me...
i was pointing out that madara likley only needed some of hashiramas blood we he could have taken from the conveniently exposed left arm
Well it's only my assumption based on how Tobito could replace his body parts, and Danzou having that artificial arm, and also Madara telling that Hashirama could regenerate like Tsunade and we know Tsunade could even regenerate being cut in half (at least that's what her conversation with her slug summon suggests). Of course some blood would be probably enough Like in the case of Kakuzu and Hidan, Kakashi used a vial to collect blood. I'm just assuming that Madara used a more crude method because it would fit him better than using vials like a scientist

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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
i was thinking along the lines of what sasuke did to danzo to make him think there was still time left for the izanagi jutsu...in this case, madara launches a small scale genjutsu (since he sees through the wood clone) and makes it so that it appears he suffered a mortal wound.
I was thinking about that too, but how would he fake his dead body without Zetsu? I'm assuming here that Hashirama and even other konoha ninja would examine the body to make sure it's not some ninja trick. Also the manga tells us that such bodies have many secrets in them, escpecially Madara's having 2 EMS eyes, why would they not check it later even if only for taking the eyes. One scenario could be that Tobirama wanted the body but Hashirama told him it would be disrespectful to use the body for experiments or to take body parts and he detroyed it before it could be verified that it's fake. Anyway it should be explained later by Madara himself.

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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
plus, did hashirama not care enough to at least bury his friend???
i dont know how his survival will be revealed but if he was left for dead and got up and drag that wood clone body away...grrrr
It would make sense not burying it because either Tobirama or some enemy village would want to get an eye from it or even experiment on it to try and get some information out of it.
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Old 2013-04-19, 21:02   Link #263
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
But now i wonder where did Kabuto find some of Madara's cells to make the edo tensei
the same place where he got muu and itachi and nagato and a bunch of others that should have been impossible...

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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
It would make sense not burying it because either Tobirama or some enemy village would want to get an eye from it or even experiment on it to try and get some information out of it.
right, but then he would take the body with him. the only thing i can see working out is a fission technique like muu or some new MS power that madara has that we haven't seen before that can do something weird along these lines
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Old 2013-04-20, 04:17   Link #264
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
the same place where he got muu and itachi and nagato and a bunch of others that should have been impossible...
In some cases they could have taken it while the subject was alive, for example Orochimaru taking secretly a hair or something from Itachi. Assuming that it was Orochimaru's plan to later do all this edo tensei world war... Kabuto really didn't have many original ideas, he copied most of what Orochimaru did. Suigetsu even found a scroll where one of Orochi's plans was that was so important that could change the future of the world. Poor Kabuto is really treated bad by the author. At least he should be given a nice ending

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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
right, but then he would take the body with him. the only thing i can see working out is a fission technique like muu or some new MS power that madara has that we haven't seen before that can do something weird along these lines
These guys have mountain-destroyer jutsu, i'm sure he could dispose of a body with a jutsu.
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Old 2013-04-20, 11:11   Link #265
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I was thinking about that too, but how would he fake his dead body without Zetsu? I'm assuming here that Hashirama and even other konoha ninja would examine the body to make sure it's not some ninja trick. Also the manga tells us that such bodies have many secrets in them, escpecially Madara's having 2 EMS eyes, why would they not check it later even if only for taking the eyes. One scenario could be that Tobirama wanted the body but Hashirama told him it would be disrespectful to use the body for experiments or to take body parts and he detroyed it before it could be verified that it's fake. Anyway it should be explained later by Madara himself.
well hopefully wishy washy sashy doesnt change his mind again afterwards...

is it time to move to new thread?
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Old 2013-04-20, 13:07   Link #266
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In some cases they could have taken it while the subject was alive, for example Orochimaru taking secretly a hair or something from Itachi.
i find that hard to believe. itachi, nagato and muu (ultimate sensor-type) seem extremely cautious and difficult to get a hold of. itachi was so superior to orochimaru whenever they met that it's difficult to see orochimaru pulling a fast one on itachi and getting a sample of his dna. of course it could happen, but it doesn't jive with itachi's carefulness and sense of surroundings. nagato should have been near impossible to get a hold of while he was alive and when dead, he was hidden by konan and then by obito. and like i said, muu was a super-sensor although we dont know how his body was preserved/buried, i'd like to think his village would have been protective of the body of an ultra-rare double bloodline user. madara's dna seems the least likely to get, but those 3 strike me as very odd as well

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These guys have mountain-destroyer jutsu, i'm sure he could dispose of a body with a jutsu.
that's fair. but it means it must have been a very elite technique to fool hashirama who would therefore have destroyed madara's fake or incomplete body
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Old 2013-04-20, 22:05   Link #267
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i find that hard to believe. itachi, nagato and muu (ultimate sensor-type) seem extremely cautious and difficult to get a hold of. itachi was so superior to orochimaru whenever they met that it's difficult to see orochimaru pulling a fast one on itachi and getting a sample of his dna. of course it could happen, but it doesn't jive with itachi's carefulness and sense of surroundings. nagato should have been near impossible to get a hold of while he was alive and when dead, he was hidden by konan and then by obito. and like i said, muu was a super-sensor although we dont know how his body was preserved/buried, i'd like to think his village would have been protective of the body of an ultra-rare double bloodline user. madara's dna seems the least likely to get, but those 3 strike me as very odd as well

that's fair. but it means it must have been a very elite technique to fool hashirama who would therefore have destroyed madara's fake or incomplete body
Aside from Orochimaru/Kabuto, are there any instances of people "experimenting" with someone else's DNA?

I was under the assumption that Orochimaru was a kind of Dr.Frankenstein who invented his own field of DNA theft.

Prior to that it seemed that the only thing other clan's wanted to steal was jutsu secrets and distinct bodyparts that could be implanted (like eyes). Maybe to experiment on a live bloodline user to find out their jutsu weakness.

The only cases of "stealing bodies" involved Hyuugas, Uchiha's, and Pain (all involving eyes for implantation). The only cases of DNA stealing I remember are orochimaru and Kabuto.

If that's the case, then maybe other clan's would have no reason to hide the body of someone in their clan who doesn't have a distinct body part. Maybe no one knows that you can do what Orochimaru did. Someone like Muu doesn't really have any special bodyparts to steal.

Then again I dont remember many details from long gone chapters.
Then again again were talking as if Kishimoto's plot is as tight as a Tolstoy novel . I'm still trying to figure out how come Narutoworld is a modern looking world but they don't have cell phones.
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Old 2013-04-20, 23:59   Link #268
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Originally Posted by Cookie-Monster View Post
The only cases of "stealing bodies" involved Hyuugas, Uchiha's, and Pain (all involving eyes for implantation). The only cases of DNA stealing I remember are orochimaru and Kabuto.
even back during the first arc (haku and zabuza) it was made a point that especially strong ninjas' bodies needed to be recovered and disposed of by their own villages so as to preserve all their secrets. nobody may have done exactly what orochimaru was doing but that's beside the point of hiding/disposing/protecting one's own and one's elite fellow ninja's bodies for the safety of one's own village. also, edo tensei should have been known by most higher ups of most if not all villages since tobirama used the technique and it was somewhat known that he did. oonoki knew all of the 2nd mizukage's secrets for instance. furthermore, orochimaru and other possible ET users would only go after those elite ninja's dna anyway so no need to be wary about every villager's body. but extra worry should be taken about special ninjas and their particular abilities. some quick examples: (danzo and itachi destroying shisui's eyes, and Ao having that defensive seal over his stolen byakugan, and many more of course all the way back to haku pretending to be a mist anbu recovering zabuza's body for that very reason)

Quote:
I'm still trying to figure out how come Narutoworld is a modern looking world but they don't have cell phones.
i dont like the random technology either. they had computers and cameras in the forest of death, and these weird mental projection machines for the war... it's just weird. i'd prefer either all possible and futuristic sci-fi technology, or no technology at all.
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Old 2013-04-21, 00:17   Link #269
Cookie-Monster
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
even back during the first arc (haku and zabuza) it was made a point that especially strong ninjas' bodies needed to be recovered and disposed of by their own villages so as to preserve all their secrets. nobody may have done exactly what orochimaru was doing but that's beside the point of hiding/disposing/protecting one's own and one's elite fellow ninja's bodies for the safety of one's own village. also, edo tensei should have been known by most higher ups of most if not all villages since tobirama used the technique and it was somewhat known that he did. oonoki knew all of the 2nd mizukage's secrets for instance. furthermore, orochimaru and other possible ET users would only go after those elite ninja's dna anyway so no need to be wary about every villager's body. but extra worry should be taken about special ninjas and their particular abilities. some quick examples: (danzo and itachi destroying shisui's eyes, and Ao having that defensive seal over his stolen byakugan, and many more of course all the way back to haku pretending to be a mist anbu recovering zabuza's body for that very reason)

i dont like the random technology either. they had computers and cameras in the forest of death, and these weird mental projection machines for the war... it's just weird. i'd prefer either all possible and futuristic sci-fi technology, or no technology at all.
Oh yeah! haku lol. Been like 6 years.

Your right about the futuristic stuff. I dislike it as well.

Many of the concepts Kishimoto has set up is incredibly cool. (sign weaving, bloodline techniques, the different classes of jutsus, the different countries, the prodijy ninjas etc)

I would have loved to have seen a Naruto series that was medieval in setting, and where the mood was dark and brooding. (A naruto version of Basilisk). Would be amazinggggg
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Old 2013-04-21, 02:52   Link #270
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Actually, that's my favourite type of setting, (which is why I love he-man). Why separate them when you can have magic and technology working together
But really, I agree that a story like Naruto needs something darker...it's about mercenaries you know. Or at least it was supposed to be about mercenaries...
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