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Old 2013-04-18, 11:10   Link #141
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
No, no it wasn't... Every thing about her is fetishized and a parody of those fetishes. It was marketed towards men from the get go. I've yet to hear one woman say that she likes anything about bayonetta.

Also, a woman doesn't have to be ugly to keep her from being eye candy. she just doesn't need sexual poses, exagerated breast physics and body shape and sexualized outfit like Bayonetta and Ivy from SC.
Like I said before, look at the Remember Me video game, show me one bit of her thats eye candy. Or even Samus before... that abomination. Samus was eye candy before she was eye candy. She was sexy
because she was a bad ass heroine.
My ex liked Bayonetta for some reason. So there was one. She almost ordered the game until something distracted her.

As for being sexy or not, actually, from what I hear, a lot of feminist complain even the tuned down girls are terrible because they exhibit body shapes beyond what most women have.
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:17   Link #142
Ermes Marana
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
No, no it wasn't... Every thing about her is fetishized and a parody of those fetishes. It was marketed towards men from the get go. I've yet to hear one woman say that she likes anything about bayonetta.

Again, I've heard the opposite. I hear from men that Bayonetta's proportions (mainly the long limbs) are too weird for them, and I hear women say they like her.

Which makes sense, because she was designed by a woman, with the intent of going against the trends of women in video games. The proportions make her seem stronger. She is also somewhat similar to the style of the fashion world, which is aimed at women, not at men.
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:23   Link #143
Kyero Fox
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Uuuuh ookaaay sure... what ever..
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:36   Link #144
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Uuuuh ookaaay sure... what ever..
It just show how everyone, male or female, can have different opinions on what attract/repulse them. How could a few feminists think they can speak for the entire female sex? If they believe they are right, go out and raise money for a studio and make a game.

Once that is successful, every other developer will follow part.
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Old 2013-04-18, 11:39   Link #145
Kyero Fox
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Yea I just don't believe at all that bayonetta was marketed for women. =\ Did you see how it was MARKETED?!

Oh yea, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_...Platinum_games <- that too.
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Old 2013-04-18, 13:01   Link #146
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
It's funny that the OP mentioned Bayonetta as "made for men", since the opposite is true.

Bayonetta was designed by a female character designer and made for women. She was given the super long limbs precisely to differentiate her from "eye candy" female characters and make her appeal to women.
I've heard this before from the creator and other women, and while I don't necessarily disagree with it, I don't consider the protagonist to be especially empowering or appealing, but I'm also a little different than most.

Bayonetta is just an extension of the existing Strong Independent Woman stereotype which I don't think is especially helpful (or fair). Sure, yeah, it's better than vapid balls of fluff with gag boobs and bare skin everywhere, but that's not really saying much.

For what the game is, it's fine. It's a fantastic story with a superheroine in the lead. Bayonetta is no more crazy and over-the-top than Superman or Batman, or Deadpool or the Punisher.

I didn't have any personal draw to Bayonetta because I've never been big on superhero stories and because I'm not personally attracted to the "tall, dark and impossibly sexy" type of woman. Maybe Bayonetta doesn't appeal to me because I'm gay and I look at other women in a different way than straight women do.

More than that I think it's just personal preference. The characters I like most are the ones that fit under the Badass Adorable trope, and "tall, dark and impossibly sexy" doesn't really jive with that.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:26   Link #147
Snuffle
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I'm surprised to hear that there are some women that actually like Bayonetta. I've never played the game, only the demo, and I was totally turned off by it due to how the character looks as well as fights. Well... I do know a women that likes Wonder Woman, so maybe it really does have something to do with the display of strength coming from a woman?

Anyway, it was obvious this thread was going to progress into this direction, that's including the argument/debate that got deleated (which I read most of). It makes me wonder if the original post was just a troll to bait people to complain about stuff... It's why I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but yet, here I am.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:30   Link #148
cronnoponno
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Originally Posted by Snuffle View Post

Anyway, it was obvious this thread was going to progress into this direction, that's including the argument/debate that got deleated (which I read most of). It makes me wonder if the original post was just a troll to bait people to complain about stuff... It's why I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but yet, here I am.
Eh, people accusing others of being part of some rape-culture conspiracy that we perpetuate but are too stupid to realize we are is a very normal thing under any talk of any female subject and I don't think they should be the ones to drag down honest discussion over real issues.


I disagree with the people who froth at the mouth and point the finger at stuff like sexy outfits and overdone physics, they have their place, however I do agree that I'd like to see them less in games that try to take themselves seriously. I was watching videos for Nier, I haven't played it but it looks like it has an extremely good story, looked at Kaine's outfit and thought ''seriously?'', but if the game is honestly saying ''This is a sex appeal game'' like SB, I don't see how it's some ultimate evil and needs to be eradicated.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:38   Link #149
sa547
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I'd better get this out of my chest: the fact that gaming has been a predominantly male domain cannot be disputed -- they made and played them, but then females have taken themselves not to look for games exclusively made for them (most of which are gender-heavy, more like glorified electronic doll houses) but went ahead, crossed the line and play the games that were originally for men, and after about two decades, did I mention about KillCreek?
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:38   Link #150
Kyero Fox
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I like how your obviously pointing at me about the first part. Why not just say it?
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:44   Link #151
cronnoponno
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
I like how your obviously pointing at me about the first part. Why not just say it?

Which one of us? Me? I don't know what you specifically said to make me target you; but I do think you've made it a point to be against the kind of stuff I said was okay so I guess I would technically be making my response in your general interest.
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Old 2013-04-18, 14:52   Link #152
Duo Maxwell
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You know, I also like bishi-guys in my games, so I'm kinda confused why people feel insecure when game feature hot or cute girls in their games.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:01   Link #153
ArchmageXin
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The rape culture (NOTE: APPLIED TO VIDEO GAMES ONLY) is another thing I found strange. Yes, rape is a horrible thing, but most online gamer culture constantly use that term during win.

"GG raped"

But I have strong doubts guys who type that actually is going out to rape a girl. It is just a bit of trash talk on the way out. But it seem recent years feminists decided raped in video game chat = rape IRL and use that as a club to wack male gamers for being sexist. To be honest, the same guy who said GG raped over countstrike probably is going to be a guy who shyly ask a girl on a date, than a alpha male type who actually would do the deed.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:05   Link #154
synaesthetic
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The way I see it, it's no different than saying "fuck you" to someone. You're not actually going to fuck them. It's a word being used in a different way than its original intended meaning. The English language is rife with these words that have obtained alternate meanings.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:32   Link #155
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by ArchmageXin View Post
Also to OP, here is the trick question.

If you have a game feature a hot girl like Lightning from FF13 (she is clearly not an E-Cup model in bikini), and you say that is sexist.
Wait, did someone actually said that Lightning was there to cater the male gamers' attention? She is basically the opposite of what mostly appeal guys in this age dominated by moe characters.
They would have chosen someone like her sister Sera instead, if that was the case.

The fact that Lightning is a bit androgynous makes her a lot more similar to the archetypical character of Oscar François de Jarjayes which had an enormous success among girls.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:35   Link #156
synaesthetic
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Lightning was actually a pretty well-designed character from an artistic standpoint, and I'd even venture to say a decent female character from a writing standpoint... but she was a pretty flat character, too.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:42   Link #157
Jan-Poo
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I'm not arguing on whether SE actually did a good job or not with her, but in my opinion, she is their first attempt to create a female main character designed to appeal the female gamers, whereas every single other installment of the series had a male hero or a non assertive female hero (Terra) who appeals more the male gamers.

At least they tried.
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Old 2013-04-18, 15:56   Link #158
cronnoponno
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The copy/paste boring(in my opinion) non-assertive female role is starting to go down the drain from my perspective, I personally dislike it strongly and am tired of it and I think there are many others who think that way. Unfortunately any strong female character in any media, not just games, have a bunch of small quirks to them that they need to have to remind us that ''she's still girly!''.

I groaned every second of Fate/Stay night where Shirou wouldn't shut the hell up about Saber needing to ''stay in the kitchen like a woman and be happy'' and how the story actually sorta justifies that.

I think tougher girls need to be in games, not just ''female oriented'' games because I'm not sure if that's their thing, I personally don't like females that behave like they need to be protected(babysitting), the closest most people ever get to making bright female characters are those who make them out to be total dominatrix, or do a halfway Tomboy sort of thing but in that case there's always some scene we get to see that reminds us of how girly they are...I don't want to say ''GET RID OF THIS'' or anything but I'd like to see an increase of females who are legitimately bright and strong, and not just some ''girl power''! character or ''Don't worry, she likes plushies and blushes at things so she's not totally ungirly and unscrewable''.
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Old 2013-04-18, 16:00   Link #159
synaesthetic
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I preferred Fate/Zero, honestly. Kiritsugu was a total amoral asshole, but at least he didn't yell at Saber or Iri to stay in the kitchen.
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Old 2013-04-18, 16:32   Link #160
Chaos2Frozen
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I'm confused at the wanting for strong girls to be completely without an 'girly' side.

That spells insecure to me.
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