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Old 2013-09-10, 12:49   Link #621
kuromitsu
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I'm pretty sure it's not mainly about gender and sexuality, though. Katze's gender is set as "unknown" because well, look at what he embodies. Rui's crossdressing/LOAD alterego ties into many of the show's themes. On his own OD would be your usual okama character, except he has interesting company in Katze and JJ. I actually find JJ the most interesting in this aspect... (Although it might be just a design choice. Because damn, he looks awesome. OD and Katze do as well, but JJ is something I haven't seen before.)
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Old 2013-09-10, 19:37   Link #622
Upscaled
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I find the practical problem of trying to follow the progressive convention of using the person's preferred gender (as it applies to a fictional character (who has not expressed such a preference in the story)) to be solvable only when the English language establishes a consensus regarding the appropriate gender-neutral pronoun, sooner than later. You can't just go ahead and ask fictional characters what their preferences are.

Or you could adopt the Japanese convention of often omitting the subject of the sentence altogether and hope that it'll eventually stop sounding awkward in English.

Or you could find other creative ways of constructing your sentences that avoid using a pronoun.

Or you could just revert to using the old, anatomy-based convention until the character expresses a preference, but that works only if the anatomy is distinct and confirmed.

Or just use whichever pronoun you want for now.

Last edited by Upscaled; 2013-09-10 at 20:12.
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Old 2013-09-11, 00:45   Link #623
GoldenLand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I'm pretty sure it's not mainly about gender and sexuality, though. Katze's gender is set as "unknown" because well, look at what he embodies.
Given whose name Berg-Katze is a reference to in the original Gatchaman series, it's highly appropriate for him to have no clear gender even if the series isn't making a big thing of the issue. According to what the Gatchaman wiki says about the original Berg-Katse, "He is a gestalt entity created through the fusion of fraternal twins while still in the womb. Because his component parts were male and female, Berg Katse was prone to switch sexes numerous times in his life, forcing him to hide his identity until he could control it in his adulthood, becoming a master of disguise as a result."
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:04   Link #624
rocket
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
So what about Katze or JJ? (Never mind OD.) Nobody seems to mind referring to them as males...
Katze is androgynous or polydrogenous (is that a word? it should be), so for lack of a beter pronoun I'll go for English's gender neutral "he". But I don't think of Katze as properly a "he", yet "it" is unacceptable in my view for a sentient being.

JJ seems unambigiously masculine, so "he".

OD is campy in the extreme, but is clearly comfortable being a "he" (and attracting "he"s) so again "he".

Rui on the other hand is effectively passing as a girl for all intents and purpouses, even if comfortable being up front about her plumbing.

Honestly my inside voice thinks "he", because I "know" but I have the same problem with with my transgender friend so I'm trying to act/speak the way I "should". Sorry if I've tripped up in the past.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rui's cute as a button, and I'll go "hard gay" for crossdressing cuties. ;-) So if cannon says "he", that's just fine by me too. Just trying to "do the right thing".
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Old 2013-09-11, 01:07   Link #625
jeroz
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Inb4 JJ is actually female
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Old 2013-09-11, 05:43   Link #626
MeisterBabylon
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At this point in time I don't think I would care about what their genders really are.

(granted, MJP also bled that out of me...)
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Old 2013-09-11, 10:52   Link #627
rocket
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
Inb4 JJ is actually female
What really? Man, is that intentional misdirection or old person anime styling fail?

I think I was setup by the initial highschool girl groping...
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Old 2013-09-11, 11:02   Link #628
orion
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I'm not seeing the problem. All 3 appear to be "male" to me with OD being gay.
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Old 2013-09-11, 11:08   Link #629
Winterson
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So BG is genderless. . . .
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Old 2013-09-11, 12:05   Link #630
orion
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Originally Posted by Winterson View Post
So BG is genderless. . . .
No. BG is a "he" if they carry over his gender from the original Gatchaman.

You guys are just getting too hung up over gender classification.
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Old 2013-09-12, 08:30   Link #631
orpheus2
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The difference between the old and the new Sugane is neither a simple change in the person he follows, nor does it mean he will take charge and whatnot--at this point Sugane follows Hajime. She's his new leader, whether he can admit it or not--. The difference is that now he decides whom to follow on his own. Before, he took orders from JJ and Paiman because that was the established hierarchy, which he obeyed blindly. Now, finally, he thinks and decides things on his own. He's still a follower, as that is the sort of person he is, but he doesn't do it blindly anymore, and that's a huge step for him.
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Deciding on the person you follow is part of finding and following your own path, though. Not everyone is a leader.

(And then there's also his sort-of "independence" from Jou, but that was mostly due to Jou's own actions...)
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yes, I agree. He's definitely changed, and I'm starting to like him quite a bit.
I have to agree. Before, he just followed without thinking for himself. Now, he truly thought about who should he follow on his own terms.

I can't wait to see what happens next.
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Old 2013-09-13, 15:27   Link #632
Irenesharda
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Well, this most recent episode was okay, better than last week, yet somehow still fell flat for me. I love all the "Yay, Gatchaman!" team spirit stuff. However, I would have actually have felt better if I had actually felt there was tension there and things on the line. You ever have those storylines, where the build up was fantastic, but the pay-off was lacking? This is kind of what these last few episodes feel like.
Despite all the proposed danger and destruction, I never once really felt any tension or any danger about the town, and I almost felt a bit bored with what was going on. No stakes, no danger, not even the bad guys are getting hurt here. I was just watching character go through the motions and do exactly as a normal cliche plot would expect. The good guys fight, the public helps, no one's hurt, depressed team member returns after peptalk and everyone's going to do their best to save the town. Plotpoint A leads to Plotpoint B, rinse and repeat.

Honestly, I'm waiting and waiting for Berg Katze to finally play his hand and put a monkey wrench and a huge damp on the Gatchaman's plans and triumphant rescue. His parts are the best parts of the episode and the series, as short as his scenes are. I loved the scene where Umeda asks him if he's the devil, and he simply answers: "No, I am you."

He's one of the coolest villains I've seen in anime this year, and I really hope that the ending to of this show has a good pay-off if only for the sake of this awesome character.

I give this episode a 6.5/10.
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Old 2013-09-13, 16:46   Link #633
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Old 2013-09-13, 17:23   Link #634
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Well certainly with Katze goofing around elsewhere it's pretty safe for the Gatchaman crew to take care of the Crowds threat. Those things are pretty much pushovers and makes me wonder how Rui thought it'd be possible to beat Katze with those things. Long as Katze stays on the sidelines they can clear up this issue without too much trouble. It's just a question of dealing with the numbers which are bound to decrease eventually.
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Old 2013-09-13, 17:53   Link #635
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenesharda View Post
Well, this most recent episode was okay, better than last week, yet somehow still fell flat for me. I love all the "Yay, Gatchaman!" team spirit stuff. However, I would have actually have felt better if I had actually felt there was tension there and things on the line. You ever have those storylines, where the build up was fantastic, but the pay-off was lacking? This is kind of what these last few episodes feel like.
Despite all the proposed danger and destruction, I never once really felt any tension or any danger about the town, and I almost felt a bit bored with what was going on. No stakes, no danger, not even the bad guys are getting hurt here. I was just watching character go through the motions and do exactly as a normal cliche plot would expect. The good guys fight, the public helps, no one's hurt, depressed team member returns after peptalk and everyone's going to do their best to save the town. Plotpoint A leads to Plotpoint B, rinse and repeat.
Sadly, I have to agree. No tension whatsoever here. For me, it's also because Hajime has been build up as a completely infallible heroine. You know everything's going to be fine as long as she's here. I used to love that side of her, but now that we're getting close to the ending I'm starting to think of it as a problem. There's no suspense.

I still find Gatchman Crodws an enjoyable watch, but I can't say it lived up to the high expectations I had for it. Lots of build up, little pay-off so far. Thankfully, there are still two episodes left, that's plenty of time left to impress.
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Old 2013-09-13, 18:00   Link #636
Kazu-kun
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We already knew the Crowds were pushovers. If anyone expected dramatic tension from the fight against them, those were horribly misplaced expectations.

There will be drama only when/if Katze decides to step in.
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Old 2013-09-13, 18:02   Link #637
SeijiSensei
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Are there a hundred members of the Neo Crowds? If so, our heroes seem to have mowed down quite a few of them already.
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Old 2013-09-13, 18:13   Link #638
FlareKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
We already knew the Crowds were pushovers. If anyone expected dramatic tension from the fight against them, those were horribly misplaced expectations.

There will be drama only when/if Katze decides to step in.
It's not a question of expectations, but what's actually happening. No tension is no tension no matter what you expected.
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Old 2013-09-13, 18:20   Link #639
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
No tension is no tension no matter what you expected.
If you didn't expect something the series obviously wasn't going to give, you wouldn't be disappointed.
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Old 2013-09-13, 18:22   Link #640
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Are there a hundred members of the Neo Crowds? If so, our heroes seem to have mowed down quite a few of them already.
No the number was somewhere in the ten ten thousands. Katze said it last episode when he gave the Crowds power to the people who where labeled by X as lacking initiative.
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