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Old 2013-05-05, 06:27   Link #121
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
What kind of technology was lost? Certainly nothing related to architecture, art, navigation or warfare.
They lost for example the technology of flushable toilets. Which is important if you want to reduce diseases.

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Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flush_toilet
1st to 5th centuries AD: Flush toilets were used throughout the Roman Empire. Some examples include those at Vindolanda on Hadrian's Wall in Britain. With the fall of the Roman Empire, the technology was lost in the West
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Old 2013-05-05, 06:41   Link #122
BoyTitan
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Originally Posted by slidingk1 View Post
I speculate the old bald guy is actually the Monkey thing just you watch.
Why would he not know what 3d gear is then -_-.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken View Post
I think Reiner and Bertholdt were tricked or blackmailed. What they said before transforming was a dead give away that they don't really want to do those things back then.
Not black mailed how bout desperate pressed for time. Being beat by some one stronger like idk the ape titans faction. And the key to winning being in Eren's dad place but they just don't know which house it is or have the key to find it. Oh ya eren had a key 0-o.
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Old 2013-05-05, 07:04   Link #123
chaos_alfa
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It is frustrating they changed the order of events a bit in episode 5.

The way episode 5 showed how Eren's team got massacred made it looked like his team only went after him, because they where forced to go after Eren because he choose to go on ahead. In the manga they go after him after he lost his leg.

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The way the anime depicted these event made it look like it was Eren's fault his team got massacred. It looks like many anime-only views are thinking this.
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Old 2013-05-05, 07:54   Link #124
Beaver897
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
It is frustrating they changed the order of events a bit in episode 5.

The way episode 5 showed how Eren's team got massacred made it looked like his team only went after him, because they where forced to go after Eren because he choose to go on ahead. In the manga they go after him after he lost his leg.

The way the anime depicted these event made it look like it was Eren's fault his team got massacred. It looks like many anime-only views are thinking this.
^This. I honestly don't mind it, because either way, they were all gonna die in one bad way or another, but what also gets me are the responses of the anime-only watchers.

I wonder if the people who're good enough to tell it's Eren in Chapter 7 will find it cliche, a deus ex machina, an asspull, or just another shounen thing about SnK. It'll be pretty frustrating for me if it gets a lot of negative views like that, because I know that it's not as "shounen" as one would normally think.
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Old 2013-05-05, 08:40   Link #125
Raviel
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If there are some people who can tell it's Titan Eren in the coming weeks, I think that's where the emphasis on his flashback with his dad is going to be a saving grace (i.e. Titan Eren won't be seen as an asspull)

Most will probably come to the conclusion that that injection is the cause of his Titan powers (like many of us manga readers have).
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Old 2013-05-05, 08:42   Link #126
Zaresh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Let's even acknowledge that some technologies can go lost, (though I don't quite agree that the historical example of medieval can support something so radical as an information era reverting to pre-renaissance) but what about the physical evidences of those technologies.

You mentioned the pantheon, for example, but the pantheon was still there, and it's still there today.

The current world is so filled with proofs of our technology advancements that the idea that any traces of them would completely vanish in an area as big as Texas is practically unthinkable.

Even if you wanted to purposely remove those, it'll probably cost you several billions of dollars and take decades, and you still shouldn't be surprised if farmers would occasionally find fragments of plastic and concrete.
As far as I remember, they're in a closed space where all evidences and remainings of old technology can be erasen. And iirc, they have banned all information and they control what the population knows about the world outside the walls (and what they know about the past). So I don'0t think it's something so foolish to think in this posibility.

And I don't think it's so expensive to do. Rewritting history and erasing proofs is usual in our world, I would say.

To be honest, I'm feeling like my english is not good enough for discussing this matter, but another example of how something is lost and ceases to be used when nobody knows is the hypocaust system.

Last edited by Zaresh; 2013-05-05 at 08:55. Reason: addiing stuff, again
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Old 2013-05-05, 09:46   Link #127
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
And I don't think it's so expensive to do. Rewritting history and erasing proofs is usual in our world, I would say.
Erasing proofs of a technology even existing? Usual?
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Old 2013-05-05, 10:37   Link #128
iceyfw
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
It is frustrating they changed the order of events a bit in episode 5.

The way episode 5 showed how Eren's team got massacred made it looked like his team only went after him, because they where forced to go after Eren because he choose to go on ahead. In the manga they go after him after he lost his leg.

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

The way the anime depicted these event made it look like it was Eren's fault his team got massacred. It looks like many anime-only views are thinking this.
i'm with you on this. the amount of posts i'm reading about how eren indirectly killed his squad in the episode 5 discussion thread is making me twitch my eyes and shaking my head sideways. i don't know who on the staff gave the A-OK to make this change, but horrible change for this chapter adaptation.

i had to backtrack to chapter 4 and the distance between eren and the titan was NOWHERE near that far apart from how the anime showed it. again terrible change in my eyes. now most of the anime-only viewers i see on various forums treat eren like shit for doing what he did in the anime.
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Old 2013-05-05, 10:39   Link #129
Zaresh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Erasing proofs of a technology even existing? Usual?
Yes.

I don't know in wich country you live, but here is common that, when you're doing stuff and something shows up, you just destroy it or, most times, cover it and continue to build over it. It's not legal, it's even a crime, but it happens all the time, unless the one doing the building is central state or you're nice enough to notify your discovery to the authorities. That's what happens when nobody gives the slightest about cultural heritage because contemporany business are more profitable.

For exaple: there's a shopping center near my place. When they built it, they found a visigothic necropolis. I didn't knew about it and, shame on me, I'm a historian, because they built over it anyways and it didn't reach the popular media (I think I've found only a scientific paper about it). I knew of it because I know an archaeologist who worked at the site when they were carrying out a brief emergency excavation.

Another case. When I was living in another city, there was certain commotion when local media discovered that they were to cover and, ultimately, destroy, an archaeological site for the sake of building blocks for flats. And we're talking about the potential precursors of said city.

So yes, I think it's pretty common in lots of places. I don't think the most right way of doing things is the average way in our world.

Last edited by Zaresh; 2013-05-05 at 10:49. Reason: broken english
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Old 2013-05-05, 11:06   Link #130
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
Yes.

I don't know in wich country you live, but here is common that, when you're doing stuff and something shows up, you just destroy it or, most times, cover it and continue to build over it. It's not legal, it's even a crime, but it happens all the time, unless the one doing the building is central state or you're nice enough to notify your discovery to the authorities. That's what happens when nobody gives the slightest about cultural heritage because contemporany business are more profitable.

For exaple: there's a shopping center near my place. When they built it, they found a visigothic necropolis. I didn't knew about it and, shame on me, I'm a historian, because they built over it anyways and it didn't reach the popular media (I think I've found only a scientific paper about it). I knew of it because I know an archaeologist who worked at the site when they were carrying out a brief emergency excavation.

Another case. When I was living in another city, there was certain commotion when local media discovered that they were to cover and, ultimately, destroy, an archaeological site for the sake of building blocks for flats. And we're talking about the potential precursors of said city.

So yes, I think it's pretty common in lots of places. I don't think the most right way of doing things is the average way in our world.

What you're talking about are archeological sites not technologies. You're not going to convincing me by making these kind of comparisons since I don't believe it's the same thing at all.

You'd need to provide proof that there are technologies that have completely removed from out knowledge, but well... that's impossible, because if they were successfully removed then we wouldn't know. But that's why your whole statement that this "usually happens" doesn't make sense.

Look what I don't agree with you is that removing any traces of a technology is as easy as burning a book.

It might be relatively easy to destroy any info on how to create compact disks, but eliminating any single compact disk in the world is a whole different endeavor. Good luck with that. And this is just one. Multiply this for every single technological tool that we have.
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Old 2013-05-05, 13:05   Link #131
Zaresh
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
What you're talking about are archeological sites not technologies. You're not going to convincing me by making these kind of comparisons since I don't believe it's the same thing at all.

You'd need to provide proof that there are technologies that have completely removed from out knowledge, but well... that's impossible, because if they were successfully removed then we wouldn't know. But that's why your whole statement that this "usually happens" doesn't make sense.

Look what I don't agree with you is that removing any traces of a technology is as easy as burning a book.

It might be relatively easy to destroy any info on how to create compact disks, but eliminating any single compact disk in the world is a whole different endeavor. Good luck with that. And this is just one. Multiply this for every single technological tool that we have.
All right then. I don't know why you sound so upset by my words, but I get that you're going to take my points as straigh and extreme statements, and I'm not good enough to have an argument so serious with someone so sever like you. I wanted to explain how you can erase history from small areas, but If that doesn't pleases you, It's allrigh: I'll just give up.
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Old 2013-05-05, 15:47   Link #132
Grey
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...did the anime add a new line about Armin's parents heading outside the walls? I can't imagine the anime will get far enough for that to be foreshadowing. But it's still interesting.
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Old 2013-05-06, 11:32   Link #133
n120cky
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf
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Talking about bad emergency protocol on wall breach for 100 year + 5 year from last breach they definitely learn nothing, why don't they build underground tunnel with many entrance scattered on the district, to get behind the wall? It's much saver and efficient then one gate system + water passage.
You know that is a good idea and it was thought decades ago but politics put a stop to that.

You are going to ask if it is those bastards, not exactly.

Remember that guy preaching as the chaos was happening in the first episode?

A religion was created around the worship of the walls. This church of the walls has resisted innovation that could save people in case of emergency.

Those wall cannons? They lobbied against those.

Turns out this cult has dark secrets it is keeping from the rest of the population.

Spoiler:


The may be also the reason why ancient history about the outside is taboo.
That's plausible, but that mean that the religion is already a big influence on government or worst part of the government, I mean all normal government would like to have their people save. Or it's all a big bad conspiracy . . .
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Old 2013-05-06, 13:36   Link #134
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thats still pretty iffy tbh,

I mean if this were the case, then why would the big titans have to destroy parts of the settlement? (if they wanted to make more human titans) Wouldn't be just a lot easier to kidnap a few humans at night or something? Or just show the battle with the real titans and recruit people to become a part of the anti-titan titan army or whatever? It wouldn't make sense to go through all of that when you could just easily recruit them.

That and the fact that bertholdt and the other guy are waaay stronger than the monkey guy who didn't know anything about the 3d gear.

he didnt know about the gear because he wasn't a spy in the settlement...

We know that it takes some crazy injection to turn a human into a titan, and that titans detect human emotion. . .



Quote:
Originally Posted by BoyTitan View Post
Theory one there is going to be a big real on why titans look like humans that have died, We already know the ape titan turned a village into titans but thomas looks like the first titan eren fights as a titan. And the titan that eats eren looks like Armins gramps.

2 There is Human titan vs Original titan war going on outside, The other titan faction the ones the ape titan belongs to are winning they have not took all the humans titans territory but the fact the ape titan a scout for information gathering found the walls the human titans were probably trying to hide means they have the human titans on their last leg of defense. This point is further by after seeing the ape titan they want to catch eren even further. And the fact they did not transform to fight the ape titan 2 to 1 he must be stronger.

3 Ape titan was clearly a assasin/scout killed/thought he killed everyone who seen him in a swift assassin like manner.

4 Eren has more than just the power to turn into a titan or is the key to something bigger like the basement pr what ever he was injected with this point is furthered by the fact that the armored and giant titan want him so badly why would they want a inexperienced rookie at the loss of Annie a skilled warrior this bad.

5 Again there just has to be a titan vs titan fight going because not only have 2 complete different factions of titans displayed intelligence they have war intelligence. Also I assume the human titans are loosing because annie knows defensive fighting for fighting stronger enemies what could be stronger than a 17 m titan, 2 The titan must be good at stealth to blend in with the humans, Also its clear the ape is from a far away land since he never seen 3d gear before and felt the need to take it to his superiors. Taking the 3d gear to be looked at proves he has superiors.
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:46   Link #135
articuzwolf
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While rereading the chapter until the potential ending for the anime (30-34), I found something weird

I might miss the details but why Annie refused to follow Eren, Mikasa and Armin to the underground again?

I mean if she just followed them there, they can't conclude that Annie is a titan (again, what's the relationship between not going underground against being a titan)

It might be related to titan inside the wall since that father asked the hole to be closed immediately before sunlight hits it
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Old 2013-05-07, 09:59   Link #136
Flolan
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Obviously the reason why she wouldnt go underground is because she cannot shift to a titan form if things got bad. She would be stuck and unable to move if she tried. Probably they were getting ready to arrest her when she got there and she knew it. Thats the same reason why they kept Eren underground previously (when he was shackled).
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:01   Link #137
chaos_alfa
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Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
While rereading the chapter until the potential ending for the anime (30-34), I found something weird

I might miss the details but why Annie refused to follow Eren, Mikasa and Armin to the underground again?

I mean if she just followed them there, they can't conclude that Annie is a titan (again, what's the relationship between not going underground against being a titan)

It might be related to titan inside the wall since that father asked the hole to be closed immediately before sunlight hits it
I thought they wanted to have her underground, because it would be easier to restrain her there and because if she use her Titan form there she wouldn't do as much collateral damage as she would do above ground in that case.
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Old 2013-05-07, 10:05   Link #138
Jan-Poo
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Annie said that she isn't a brave person when she refused to go underground, she probably meant that she didn't have the courage to withstand a trial and the several interrogations (perhaps even tortures) to make her confess that she is a titan.

We have seen how it went with Eren.

Perhaps someone like Reiner could have managed it, and no one would have been able to prove that he was indeed a titan, but Annie preferred to just escape at that point.
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Old 2013-05-07, 12:31   Link #139
articuzwolf
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I mean if I were Annie, I'll just follow them underground, said no for every questions that related to titan if she was asked...and that's it

what they have till that point is only Armin's speculation

I don't think Mikasa, Eren or Armin will start cutting her hand/throat like Reiner or Berthold case (which is basically Annie's fault to give that wrong impression to other members)

I always thought that it was because the "no sunlight allowed" theory from chapter 34, but that might also be the case
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Old 2013-05-07, 13:07   Link #140
saurers123
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I mean if I were Annie, I'll just follow them underground, said no for every questions that related to titan if she was asked...and that's it
Eh, no, you're not Annie(XDD). Just like what Jan-Poo said. It's possible that she would be tortured to get information out from her. It's also possible that she can't handle the mental strain on whatever they would do to her and risk extracting information, so her best chance was to escape.
Quote:
I don't think Mikasa, Eren or Armin will start cutting his hand/throat like Reiner or Berthold case (which is basically Annie's fault to give that wrong impression to other members)
You mean her right? If it's her, it's possible that Mikasa, Eren and Armin won't do that, but what about the rest of the Survey Corp/Scouting Legion and the government? There's bound to be people who would do that amongst the ranks.

Also, Annie's not at fault. Mikasa obviously listened to what Reiner and Bertolt were saying. It was already clear that Reiner was going to transform. Bertolt even asked Reiner if he's going to do it right there and then. Thus Mikasa attacked.
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