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Old 2013-05-12, 08:25   Link #161
Sun-Ku
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Well, I wasnt including the russian part of europe, but yeah, it was a little off.
Nonetheless, the Populationcount in year 0 should be 40 to 80 Million (World Population at that time 170 to 250 Million, depending at what source do you look. And 18 to25% of that World Population was in Europe.)

Yes, crops need time, but the landmass to Population density is way off.
Thats below 2 people per square Kilometer (texas has 36). That is a Density like western Sahara and Mongolia. And these are not agrarculturalfriendly places like shown in the series.
US has Density of 34 and germany 230.

And that Density with this Land available, it should be Eden WITHIN the walls. These 250k could roam the land and live off Animals and berrys before setteling in.
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Old 2013-05-12, 08:34   Link #162
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Though his comparisons are a bit off I must agree with Sun-Ku that 1 million people for that huge area is decidedly on the low side even for a medieval setting. The land should have been big enough to support 1.250 millions inhabitants.

Baghdad in 10th century is estimated to have had about that many citizens and it was a single city in an area that was mostly deserted apart the river banks.

Though this is most likely a fantasy setting so it's possible that in this world there are even more difficulties to grow crops (even though they have potatoes).
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Old 2013-05-12, 09:05   Link #163
niffum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun-Ku View Post
Well, I wasnt including the russian part of europe, but yeah, it was a little off.
Nonetheless, the Populationcount in year 0 should be 40 to 80 Million (World Population at that time 170 to 250 Million, depending at what source do you look. And 18 to25% of that World Population was in Europe.).
So many? Well, that's my new thing learnt for the day.

Quote:
And that Density with this Land available, it should be Eden WITHIN the walls. These 250k could roam the land and live off Animals and berrys before setteling in.
This I agree with - I had a hard time buying that Sasha's village was running out of animals to hunt only a couple of years after the fall of Wall Maria. (Then again, that was Sasha's take on the situation and her definition of "food shortage" probably isn't the same as most people's...)

Poor ressource management combined with panic probably had a lot to do with it. It's difficult to say for sure without knowing more about the world, but assuming most farmers weren't producing much surplus food and the hunters stuck to killing what they needed, I assume that when the the refugees first arrived, they made a huge hole in whatever food supplies there were. Didn't the government also more or less herd them to one place? (I remember Eren talking about moving to a landfill, I think.) Gathered in one place, they would have seemed like an overwhelmingly huge number of people and they wouldn't have been able to be very productive, so the refugee problem probably appeared vastly inflated to what it actually was. Given that the people in power really don't seem to care much about what happens to anyone else, I assume they took the easy way out and tossed a few hundred people back out to reduce the refugees to a more "manageable" number.

So yeah, I agree with you that the land within Wall Rose could have supported all those people, especially given all those wide open spaces everyone seemed to gallop through when looking for that breach, but I can also see why that might not have been obvious to people at the time, especially if they were all terrified at the thought of another attack. Not that any of that makes any less of a messed up decision.
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Old 2013-05-12, 11:52   Link #164
Newhope
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Originally Posted by Sun-Ku View Post

My thoughts on the World:

The Walled Area is as big as Texas? And they have problems with Food? WTF? How many Citizens do they have? 250.000 were send to their death. Thats approx. 20% of their Population. So 1.25 Million People in an Area as big as Texas....
Even if the technology sucks. Europe had 40 to 80 Million People in the Year 0. Thats the size of Texas, but with the topology and ecology seen in this series. And they cant even feed 1/40th to 1/80th with this landmass? (Access to saltwater and rich fishing grounds aside, you CAN definitely feed 1.25 Million People with agrarcultural products with this big a landmass. Even if 1/3 of it is lost.
Texas is 250k square miles Europe is 4 million square miles, Europe is actually slightly bigger in area than the US. England is roughly the same area as the area they're living in and roughly the same population during 1066-1200.

Food production isn't just down to size of area it also comes down to weather, land fertility and things like available man power which losing 250k of your able bodied work force from such a tiny population will have a hugh impact on such a labour intensive activities like agriculture.

I work in the environmental industry and yes having a large population shift will have a hugh impact on local wild life especially in an enclosed area like their living, examples of that can be seen in our our world like in Africa where people displaced by war and turned to bush meat too survive it devastated local animal populations.

Last edited by Newhope; 2013-05-12 at 12:13.
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Old 2013-05-12, 12:15   Link #165
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
England is roughly the same area as the area they're living in and roughly the same population during 1066-1200.
According to my calculations the area included inside wall Rose is about 453,645 km^2

England is different from Great Britain, and I'm pretty sure the estimated population of 1 million in early medi-eval times refers to the territories of England alone which amount to 130 km^2
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Old 2013-05-12, 12:51   Link #166
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
According to my calculations the area included inside wall Rose is about 453,645 km^2

England is different from Great Britain, and I'm pretty sure the estimated population of 1 million in early medi-eval times refers to the territories of England alone which amount to 130 km^2
Fairly sure those numbers are wrong, pretty certain the total radius of the whole human Field is 250km not 480km which would make total area around 200k square KM, area between wall rose and maria is by far the largest which is why is was important.

Spoiler for Size:
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Old 2013-05-12, 13:02   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Fairly sure those numbers are wrong, pretty certain the total radius of the whole human Field is 250km not 480km which would make total area around 200k square KM, area between wall rose and maria is by far the largest which is why is was important.

Spoiler for Size:
I'm basing my calculations on what was disclosed in the anime



According to this 250 km is merely the radius of the first wall.

Also I'm aware of the map shown in the manga and it certainly doesn't match with the info provided by the anime as the latter states that the distance between Maria and Rose is the shortest while the former shows that it's the widest.

However the manga specifies that that map is just meant to give a general idea and it's not to be considered accurate.


If you have another source that makes you think the whole radius is 250 km I'd like to have a link
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Old 2013-05-12, 14:17   Link #168
Newhope
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You'd have to get someone better than me with japanese to translate that because 250km radius of the central area wouldn't really make sense, because that'd make the size of the area inside the Sina wall only slightly smaller than the areas inside the other 2 walls.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:12   Link #169
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
You'd have to get someone better than me with japanese to translate that because 250km radius of the central area wouldn't really make sense, because that'd make the size of the area inside the Sina wall only slightly smaller than the areas inside the other 2 walls.
It makes sense when the illustrations are not to scale.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:17   Link #170
Newhope
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It makes sense when the illustrations are not to scale.
Image I posted is by the manga's author, and he clearly states the image while not extactly to scale is roughly right and it clearly shows area inside Sina is only a fraction of the size of the other areas.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:26   Link #171
Helius
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Image I posted is by the manga's author, and he clearly states the image while not extactly to scale is roughly right and it clearly shows area inside Sina is only a fraction of the size of the other areas.
Not sure why that would be problem. It also says the central area is elevated which would make it look smaller than it actually is.

Either way, if it says central has a radius of 250km, then it has a radius of 250km, unless they provide the contrary.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:29   Link #172
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There is no question about the meaning of the information provided by the anime, it's perfectly clear.

At best you can say that the anime is wrong. But that's the only actual numbers that we have. The manga never provided any.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:33   Link #173
articuzwolf
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in the setting where a "mere" nobleman have a house/castle in the middle of the lake (and probably the area around the lake)

I doubt the king is very humble one and have smaller castle/area compared to those peasants/titan's foods/civilian
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:37   Link #174
Newhope
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Originally Posted by Helius View Post
Not sure why that would be problem. It also says the central area is elevated which would make it look smaller than it actually is.

Either way, if it says central has a radius of 250km, then it has a radius of 250km, unless they provide the contrary.
Which why it need translating before people jump to conclusions, personally I take what the author says over what the anime says until proven otherwise.
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Old 2013-05-12, 15:47   Link #175
Jan-Poo
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Which why it need translating before people jump to conclusions, personally I take what the author says over what the anime says until proven otherwise.
It's not jumping to conclusion. That text was already translated.

And regarding the author I'd like to know where did you get your info that the radius of the whole country is 250k, because as far as I know the only numbers that we have are those provided by the anime.

If we don't accept the anime as a reliable source then we simply can't discuss about how big is the area left to humanity.
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Old 2013-05-16, 04:43   Link #176
articuzwolf
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Next episode will probably end when Titan Eren saves Mikasa

although highly unlikely (due to time constraint) I really wish that next episode will end with Eren emerge from Titan's body

since black haired rogue titan with anger management issue saving Mikasa is not obvious clue enough for non-mangareader
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Old 2013-05-16, 05:01   Link #177
chaos_alfa
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Next episode will probably end when Titan Eren saves Mikasa

although highly unlikely (due to time constraint) I really wish that next episode will end with Eren emerge from Titan's body

since black haired rogue titan saving Mikasa is not obvious clue enough for non-mangareader
I think the next episode is going tot end with the 104 corps graduates choosing tot use Titan Eren in their plan to remove the Titans from the supply barracks.

The average of materiaal Being adapted is around 2 chapters per episode. The last episode was chapter 5 & 6. That is why I think the nest episode will be chapter 7 & 8.

Last edited by chaos_alfa; 2013-05-16 at 08:06.
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Old 2013-05-16, 07:04   Link #178
jeroz
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It's such a big dilemma really. Both chapter 7 and 9 got awesome cliffhanger endings that could be used to finish up the episode. Personally I would like them to use them instead of wasted on commercial breaks.

Actually, I could see them stopping the next episode with a shot of the Supply Barracks in chapter 8 page 18, the one with Jean looking on worried. The one after that can start out with the same shot and continue from there. I don't mind skipping out the chapter 7 cliffhanger as long as we got the chapter 9 cliffhanger done right. This way episode 7 would also be rounding up a nice mini-arc on Mikasa's state of mind, and prepare things for the Barracks mini arc.
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Old 2013-05-17, 01:16   Link #179
saurers123
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Also, guys, after reading Marlo and Annie’s conversation about walled kingdom’s government, I just had an epiphany...I don't know if someone mentioned/thought of this, but I get the feeling that Reiner and co's motives(or at least their hometown's) was a rebellion against the king and the system of governance. I think Marlo and Annie’s conversation was spot on or at least part of the big story.

Here’s my random "fun fun" theory/speculation in “the bigger picture” of the story. Is mostly base on random animes I read and probably drifts off from actual evidence in the manga. DON’T READ UNLESS YOU HAVE A LOT OF TIME:
Spoiler:


NOW IGNORE ME!! OMG. This post was so long.. This is the first time I posted this long of a speculation...

Last edited by saurers123; 2013-05-20 at 06:45.
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Old 2013-05-18, 18:41   Link #180
Puu
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I just had a thought (or two) today:

Spoiler for SPOILERS for manga?:
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