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Old 2013-04-26, 05:23   Link #1
Haiprbim
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Suggestions: New Prefix & Bump Option

Hello and welcome to my double-suggestions thread.
In here, I will try to suggest two changes (for now) that could be done to AnimeSuki forums.
So, without any further ado, let's get on to it.


New Prefix: "Suggestion":

Currently, you can select one of the following Prefixes when creating a thread in the Forum & Site Feedback forum to include in the title: Feedback, Question, Problem, Proposal and Request.
I would like to suggest a Prefix called Suggestion to be added.
The closest two that get to Suggestion are Proposal and Request, but they are both direct.
When using the Proposal and Request prefixes, you would like to personally let the Staff Team know what kind of a change(s) you want. Meanwhile, Suggestion prefix would focus on threads that are suggesting something with a discussion being wanted. It would be a type of thread in which everyone could cast his/her own opinion and by that contribute to the overall action/result, not just let the thread's creator let out his/her own opinion that would either get approved or declined by the Staff.

Bump Option:

One more suggestion that I have is including a Bump option in the threads.
What a Bump option would be is practically its own small icon/section like Quote or Report, that when clicking it, would bump the thread on the top of the list, directly below the possible Sticky threads in that forum section. It would be located in the top-right part of the First post (example).
Now, to prevent any unnecessary bumping, only the owner of his/her own thread could bump the thread, as well as he/she could only perform one thread bump every 24 hours.
With this, we would prevent any possible bumping by double, or even triple posting (which is already against the rules), but still keep threads we want alive.
Futhermore, to prevent any unnecessary bumping of some already-dead threads, the bump icon/section could be automatically removed if no one would post on the thread for more than 200 days.

Notice: In response to some of the posts below, the Bumping system would come handy in active to really active forum sections such as General Chat, as 2 to 3 members can push a thread that was on top of the first page onto the second one without others noticing. Also, as we know, not many members are checking the second page out, unless they are looking for a specific thread that is on their mind.

Notice V2: As a lot of discussion has went over the thread, so I would be really thankful if you could read the entire thread with its reponses before posting an opinion. Thank-you very much.


That would be it for now, but I'm sure that I'll be posting more suggestions soon.
I would choose a prefix Suggestion if I could, since I would want to hear your opinions on this ideas.

Thaks for reading, make sure to comment/share your ideas and have a good day.

Last edited by Haiprbim; 2013-04-28 at 13:03. Reason: Added some info
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Old 2013-04-26, 06:08   Link #2
Masuzu
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I think the 'Suggestion' thing is no problem and probably should already be there anyway.

Bump option on the other hand not so much, there's no real point in bumping a thread if you don't have anything substantial to post.
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Old 2013-04-26, 12:39   Link #3
Dhomochevsky
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Let the bump battle begin! My threads shall rule the forums!
*ahem*
Well, I can see some problems with that.
Why would we need a thread on the front page anyways, if there is nothing worth a post added to it? It disappeared from there for a reason.
Animesuki has an active followership, but it still takes time for a thread to go under. It's not very likely that a bump will suddenly change that.

(am I the only one who's only using User CP all the time? I only browse for new threads when my User CP list is running low. It's so comfy and I'm so lazy... )
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Old 2013-04-26, 14:24   Link #4
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky View Post
Why would we need a thread on the front page anyways, if there is nothing worth a post added to it? It disappeared from there for a reason.
Actually, in General Chat forum for example, the movement flow of the threads is pretty fast.
A thread that used to be on Page 1 can be kicked off onto Page 2 by merely 2 or 3 members.
Now, knowing that many members do not visit the 2nd Page, this would be quite a drag to bump back up.

Notice: The Bumping idea would focus on active to really active forum sections, such as General Chat.
*Look at the 1st post edit above*

Quote:
(am I the only one who's only using User CP all the time? I only browse for new threads when my User CP list is running low. It's so comfy and I'm so lazy... )
I use the User CP quite a lot, since I have Subscribed to the threads I visit regularly and they are quite fast to access that way, but they are not by far all the threads I visit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasumi View Post
I think the 'Suggestion' thing is no problem and probably should already be there anyway.

Bump option on the other hand not so much, there's no real point in bumping a thread if you don't have anything substantial to post.
You make a thread so others will see what you have posted and/or open up a discussion, not to keep it as your personal Notebook, hehe.
Anyhow, same response to "why bumping a thread would be good at active forum sections" as I have given above.

Last edited by Haiprbim; 2013-04-26 at 14:34.
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Old 2013-04-26, 16:23   Link #5
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We already have a rule against bumping threads, so I don't think quasi-automating this process is better. The threads with the most recent (real) replies get bumped to the top, and I personally don't see the need to change that. The pending reorganization of the forum will make it less likely that topics get pushed too far down the list.

As for the Suggestion label, I guess I don't really care that much, but I think it's not such a big distinction from "Proposal". The labels are optional anyway.
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Old 2013-04-26, 22:14   Link #6
Masuzu
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I forgot we had that 'Proposal' label already.
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Old 2013-04-27, 01:34   Link #7
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
We already have a rule against bumping threads, so I don't think quasi-automating this process is better. The threads with the most recent (real) replies get bumped to the top, and I personally don't see the need to change that.
So what would you do if your thread was kicked off onto the 2nd page on a really active forum section and only 2 members had the chance to see it?
The Bump option would only be possible once every 24 hours, as well as it won't bring any extra posts to the thread and if the thread truly won't get any responses in a specific amount of time, the bump option would be removed.
I really don't see how this could hurt in any way, but since you guys are the Admins, it is up to you, I only opened up a possibility.

Quote:
The pending reorganization of the forum will make it less likely that topics get pushed too far down the list.
Sounds good.

Quote:
As for the Suggestion label, I guess I don't really care that much, but I think it's not such a big distinction from "Proposal". The labels are optional anyway.
Proposal sounds more direct, person to person than Suggestion.
In Proposal, a member would specifically want something, while in Suggestion, he/she would open up a discussion and would want to hear other members' ideas as well. Or in short, he/she would not have the whole thing covered up in the 1st post and would want others to fill it in with their own thoughts as well.
But it's true that the prefixes aren't such a big deal, so it doesn't matter either...
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Old 2013-04-27, 07:29   Link #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
So what would you do if your thread was kicked off onto the 2nd page on a really active forum section and only 2 members had the chance to see it?
The Bump option would only be possible once every 24 hours, as well as it won't bring any extra posts to the thread and if the thread truly won't get any responses in a specific amount of time, the bump option would be removed.
I really don't see how this could hurt in any way, but since you guys are the Admins, it is up to you, I only opened up a possibility.
Aside from Current Series/Games(where bumping is largely irrelevant anyways) no subforum here really moves fast enough consistently to warrant a 24 hour allowance from bumps, imo.

Also you could try to make a meaningful post on it to get interest in it instead of a "bump".
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Old 2013-04-27, 12:26   Link #9
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konakaga View Post
Aside from Current Series/Games(where bumping is largely irrelevant anyways) no subforum here really moves fast enough consistently to warrant a 24 hour allowance from bumps, imo.
That is true.

Quote:
Also you could try to make a meaningful post on it to get interest in it instead of a "bump".
No, you must edit your post for that, due to double-posting being against the rules.
Note that editing does not bump the thread.
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Old 2013-04-27, 15:12   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
No, you must edit your post for that, due to double-posting being against the rules.
Note that editing does not bump the thread.
Is it?I've seen a few on this forum and it seems as long as the new post adds something new and/or interesting after a while has passed mods leave it alone.
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Old 2013-04-27, 17:31   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Is it?I've seen a few on this forum and it seems as long as the new post adds something new and/or interesting after a while has passed mods leave it alone.
It's a guideline, and usually the mods will merge the double-posts if they see it. We do issue warnings/infractions if it becomes a habit, due to the aforementioned rule about not bumping threads. In general, people should edit their existing post rather than double-posting.
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Old 2013-04-27, 17:38   Link #12
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
It's a guideline, and usually the mods will merge the double-posts if they see it. We do issue warnings/infractions if it becomes a habit, due to the aforementioned rule about not bumping threads. In general, people should edit their existing post rather than double-posting.
Does that count if you are in a situation in which you were the last poster in an (semi)inactive thread (like for example something in an "upcoming anime thread") and you had make a double post for some kind of new information?
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Old 2013-04-27, 19:57   Link #13
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Does that count if you are in a situation in which you were the last poster in an (semi)inactive thread (like for example something in an "upcoming anime thread") and you had make a double post for some kind of new information?
I think that, as totoum implied, we'll allow it if the information is useful/helpful/relevant. What we clearly don't want is for people to bump threads just for the sake of bumping them, but there can be cases where it makes sense to do that (such as when new news arrives).

(What we also don't want is people replying to multiple old posts, and each reply goes into its own post. That's a case where we want people to use the multi-quote.)
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Old 2013-04-28, 11:17   Link #14
Haiprbim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I think that, as totoum implied, we'll allow it if the information is useful/helpful/relevant. What we clearly don't want is for people to bump threads just for the sake of bumping them, but there can be cases where it makes sense to do that (such as when new news arrives).
There are multiple types of threads, and one of those are threads that go live with a specific hip & happening.
At those, news are added, but would it really be OK to just add news in a new post?
Not really, the best thing is to keep the 1st post updated for such things, to let the visitor of the thread access the info right away, not to have the need to search for it. One other situation is that some members are well-aware of what is going on on the thread, to those, these kind of news-posting would be good, but not for new visitors.

In short, double-posting is never good (shouldn't be).
This is where a Bump option that would be limited (only owner/creator can use it, time gap of cool-down, ...) would come handy.

Although I'm here just from December 2012, I've seen quite a lot, and merging the double-posts is a regular action, just a small compliment towards the Mods regarding that.
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:04   Link #15
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
There are multiple types of threads, and one of those are threads that go live with a specific hip & happening.
At those, news are added, but would it really be OK to just add news in a new post?
Not really, the best thing is to keep the 1st post updated for such things, to let the visitor of the thread access the info right away, not to have the need to search for it. One other situation is that some members are well-aware of what is going on on the thread, to those, these kind of news-posting would be good, but not for new visitors.
Not every topic starter has the urge to update their first post, so how is that a good idea to put every update in the first page?
Also if you update the first post, then the "news" won't be noticable to the people who have been following the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
In short, double-posting is never good (shouldn't be).
So you are saying that the double post in my last example is a bad idea? Why would that be bad then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
This is where a Bump option that would be limited (only owner/creator can use it, time gap of cool-down, ...) would come handy.
And your "bump" idea is pointless if the topic creator doesn't notice the update/news.
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:12   Link #16
Haiprbim
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Not every topic starter has the urge to update their first post, so how is that a good idea to put every update in the first page?
Updating the 1st post with specific info is the same as creating a new post that would contain exactly the same info. I do not quite see your point.

Quote:
Also if you update the first post, then the "news" won't be noticable to the people who have been following the thread.

And your "bump" idea is pointless if the topic creator doesn't notice the update/news.
If you are focusing on the User CP's Subscribed threads show-up, we could discuss a little about it, no need to throw an idea away just because you see a single obstacle.

If we would set it so the Subbed thread shows up in the User CP after a bump, it might be a little useless indeed if the thread itself would not contain any new info/news.
So, how to fix that?
How about inventing a new option called News Added to the 1st post of the thread? With this, the creator of the thread would be able to notice others about an adding of some News and it would appear as if a new post was created. Same would go for popping up in the User CP Subbed thread section.
So, only the thread's creator could use that option and only on the 1st post of the thread, with a specific time gap between he/she could do it again.

Thoughts?

Edit:

Quote:
So you are saying that the double post in my last example is a bad idea? Why would that be bad then?
I do not set the rules here.
I'm just telling you that currently, if you double-post without the new post containing some new, fresh info, the two posts will get merged, since it is quite useless to post something in a new post if you just want to add something.
If you repeat doing so, you will get warned about it by the Mods. Any further digging-in could issue in a ban.

As you may see, I highlighted "currently".
That is because I always want to pursuit for better options, better possibilities. Call me annoying, that's just how I am.
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:32   Link #17
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Updating the 1st post with specific info is the same as creating a new post that would contain exactly the same info. I do not quite see your point.
You are missing the point that not every topic starter is willingly to update every news on their first post, which is especially the case if someone else finds it first before the topic starter does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
If you are focusing on the User CP's Subscribed threads show-up, we could discuss a little about it, no need to throw an idea away just because you see a single obstacle.
I am rather focusing on the "convenience". The great majority of every topic created on this forums has it's opening post not updated for every tidbit of new info. So what makes you think people will start doing that now? o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
If we would set it so the Subbed thread shows up in the User CP after a bump, it might be a little useless indeed if the thread itself would not contain any new info/news.
So, how to fix that?
How about inventing a new option called News Added to the 1st post of the thread? With this, the creator of the thread would be able to notice others about an adding of some News and it would appear as if a new post was created. Same would go for popping up in the User CP Subbed thread section.
So, only the thread's creator could use that option and only on the 1st post of the thread, with a specific time gap between he/she could do it again.

Thoughts?
A little too convoluted, while i personally think most people are fine with the current forums.
There is a difference between bumping a thread and double posting (well in most occasions), because a double post doesn't always contain nothing important, while a bump itself is usually nothing more to get a thread at the top without adding something usefull.
So I still don't get the idea why do you want to bump threads.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Edit:



I do not set the rules here.
I'm just telling you that currently, if you double-post without the new post containing some new, fresh info, the two posts will get merged, since it is quite useless to post something in a new post if you just want to add something.
If you repeat doing so, you will get warned about it by the Mods. Any further digging-in could issue in a ban.
Well of course it will result into warnings and bans, but those kind of double posts are the same as pointless bumps.
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:38   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
Updating the 1st post with specific info is the same as creating a new post that would contain exactly the same info. I do not quite see your point.
Only the person who made the 1st post can update it,so if that person is not around you can't update the post.

And trust me,once the thread is 20 pages long hardly anyone pays attention to the first post,I used to update the first post of threads I created but stopped when I noticed some questions people were asking were answered in my updated 1st post but people weren't looking at it.
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:39   Link #19
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Originally Posted by Haiprbim View Post
In short, double-posting is never good (shouldn't be).
This is where a Bump option that would be limited (only owner/creator can use it, time gap of cool-down, ...) would come handy.

Although I'm here just from December 2012, I've seen quite a lot, and merging the double-posts is a regular action, just a small compliment towards the Mods regarding that.
Aggressively merging double-posts and repeat topics is a policy here that could be discussed on its own.

I think there's a major problem with the bump idea. Once it's put into use, what happens if people use it regularly? It would force everyone to use it. A thread can sink to the second or later page for a few reasons. It's possible that people missed it and a period of high activity forced it back, but it's also possible that people weren't really up for discussing it. This goes to the idea that a thread becomes a "part of the tapestry" of the community as relentlessflame beautifully stated in another thread. People shouldn't have to promote threads: if someone raises a topic and the community doesn't take interest (or even if they miss it outright because other things are taking up their interest), the thread starter needs to accept that their topic isn't getting any takers.

There are a lot of threads that get very little activity not because people didn't see it the first time, but because the topic was very limited or just didn't appeal to people's interests. The thread creator probably won't view it that way, given that they started the conversation. I would prefer to avoid a situation where people are repeatedly bumping threads that receive little to no interest, which would turn the first page into little more than an advertising pane.

Sure, we could try to come up with solutions: maybe limit the number of bumps to one or two, for example. But if you're of the mindset that threads are about community conversations rather than promoting an idea of particular discussion, then why bother with going to those lengths? Let the community decide what gets promoted through their activity, and leave it at that.

I'm giving a negative opinion on your ideas (and you don't seem to be getting much positive feedback on them overall), but I commend you for bringing them up and presenting them in a good, structured fashion
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Old 2013-04-28, 12:45   Link #20
Haiprbim
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
You are missing the point that not every topic starter is willingly to update every news on their first post, which is especially the case if someone else finds it first before the topic starter does.
That is their issue.
A good thread maintainer is the one that tries to show the rest of the community the main points of the thread on the most complex ways, not just to have it.

Quote:
I am rather focusing on the "convenience". The great majority of every topic created on this forums has it's opening post not updated for every tidbit of new info. So what makes you think people will start doing that now? o
As I've said in the reply to relentlessflame, there are different types of threads.
A hip & happening live thread is a type of a thread that requires an active and dedicated maintainer. It is not just an "open a discussion and leave" kind of thread.
Looking at some important threads created by the Admins/Mods or long-term members, it is not really something new to the forums.

Quote:
A little too convoluted, while i personally think most people are fine with the current forums.
There is a difference between bumping a thread and double posting (well in most occasions), because a double post doesn't always contain nothing important, while a bump itself is usually nothing more to get a thread at the top without adding something usefull.
So I still don't get the idea why do you want to bump threads.
I've explained the double-posting in the Edit of my previous post.
As for the Bumping, it is to let members see/check out the thread if they might have missed it and if the thread's creator does not have anything new to add, but only wants other members to check out the thread's current content. That happens a lot in the active/visited forum sections.
Note again that if the thread would show no interest by the other members, the Bump option would be removed automatically.
So, yet again, I only see positive effects of the Bumping system, but I thank you for your opinions.

Quote:
Well of course it will result into warnings and bans, but those kind of double posts are the same as pointless bumps.
Exactly.


Edit V1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Only the person who made the 1st post can update it,so if that person is not around you can't update the post.
Yeah, that is why for those types of threads (read what I repled to hyl), the creator and maintainer would have to be a dedicated and active member.
I would suggest only that kind to create those kind of threads, there are not a lot of them in the first place (these type of threads).

Quote:
And trust me,once the thread is 20 pages long hardly anyone pays attention to the first post,I used to update the first post of threads I created but stopped when I noticed some questions people were asking were answered in my updated 1st post but people weren't looking at it.
Was it the type of thread I'm talking about?
If it is/was, give me a link and let me check it out?

For types that are not the same as the one we are talking about, that do not discuss hip & happening in live, the 1st post often gets ignored after the 1st time indeed. The same happens for the Description at the YouTube videos for example.


Edit V2:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Aggressively merging double-posts and repeat topics is a policy here that could be discussed on its own.
Agreed.

Quote:
I think there's a major problem with the bump idea. Once it's put into use, what happens if people use it regularly? It would force everyone to use it. A thread can sink to the second or later page for a few reasons. It's possible that people missed it and a period of high activity forced it back, but it's also possible that people weren't really up for discussing it. This goes to the idea that a thread becomes a "part of the tapestry" of the community as relentlessflame beautifully stated in another thread. People shouldn't have to promote threads: if someone raises a topic and the community doesn't take interest (or even if they miss it outright because other things are taking up their interest), the thread starter needs to accept that their topic isn't getting any takers.
I don't know if you saw me write this or not, but I'll repeat.
There would be a time gap between when a thread's creator could Bump the thread again. We could increase that time gap or just let the use of it after the thread has falled behind Page 1 or Page 2 for example. Also, once the thread falls behind that specific page, I find it pretty fair for an active thread's maintainer to have the possibility to have it on the front page over a half-dead one.

Quote:
There are a lot of threads that get very little activity not because people didn't see it the first time, but because the topic was very limited or just didn't appeal to people's interests. The thread creator probably won't view it that way, given that they started the conversation. I would prefer to avoid a situation where people are repeatedly bumping threads that receive little to no interest, which would turn the first page into little more than an advertising pane.

Sure, we could try to come up with solutions: maybe limit the number of bumps to one or two, for example. But if you're of the mindset that threads are about community conversations rather than promoting an idea of particular discussion, then why bother with going to those lengths? Let the community decide what gets promoted through their activity, and leave it at that.
Once again, I was focusing on highly active forum sections in which members wouldn't be able to even spot the thread. For other kind of issues, such as unwanting of the thread by the community, the Bump option would automatically disappear for those kind of threads as they will not receive any replies, as I've said.

Quote:
I'm giving a negative opinion on your ideas (and you don't seem to be getting much positive feedback on them overall), but I commend you for bringing them up and presenting them in a good, structured fashion
And I thank you for it.
I much prefer strict replies that help to the overall decission than just head-nodding.

Last edited by Haiprbim; 2013-04-28 at 13:02.
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