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Old 2013-09-17, 17:34   Link #1341
Konja7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
That's not the result of Free, though. In fact, Free itself is the result of KyoAni hopping on a bandwagon. On the "shows about pretty boys for a primarily female audience" front just this year there was, so far: UtaPri 2000% (also sold like hotcakes), Hakkenden srs 1-2), Karneval, BroCon, Makai Ouji and of course Free. Sure, these are not, strictly speaking, "cute boys doing cute things" shows, but then again, neither is Free.
True, lately have been going pretty series with pretty boys groups, which are aimed primarily at a female audience.

Curious fact, it seems that Free is also popular among male fans in Japan (although I suppose that female fans are the majority).
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Old 2013-09-17, 17:47   Link #1342
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I am happy Free! sold so well if only to show up some misygonist jerks.

I also think it shows that it is worth to put effort into female productions that goes beyond good seiyuu. Lets face it series aimed at women rarely get the Kyoani production treatment.

Still I am not really sure how much of a trend this will start. As Kuromitsu has pointed out this isn't even a new trend. But while 25,000 is excellent, look at how Attack on Titans is selling.

Now when will someone license Free!?
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Old 2013-09-17, 18:23   Link #1343
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
But while 25,000 is excellent, look at how Attack on Titans is selling.
Well, Attack on Titan is a mainstream anime that gets much more money, publicity, and has a more diverse target audience than even the KyoAni-powered Free. Shows targeting one specific demographic will never sell as much as shows that appeal to a wider audience.

As for the rise in female-targeted shows, it didn't start this year, but it's definitely promising. I'm not particularly "worried" about a sudden onslaught of pretty boy shows on the scale of moe/male otaku targeted anime; and in any case, the market will sort itself out. It's just good to see producers finally acknowledging women as a market force that's worth being directly catered to.
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Old 2013-09-17, 18:32   Link #1344
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Well, Attack on Titan is a mainstream anime that gets much more money, publicity, and has a more diverse target audience than even the KyoAni-powered Free. Shows targeting one specific demographic will never sell as much as shows that appeal to a wider audience.
Actually mainstream anime doesn't tend to sell that well. The manga sells well but not necessarily the anime, so Titans success actually is a big surprise in my opinion.

edit: To bring this back to Free! I think it is good that other markets have success (in Free!'s case a female market) and in Titan's case a more mainstream market. I actually think one of the issues with the anime market is it was becoming too insular & niche and more and more of the same things were being made. So any outside success is a good thing to me.

Now while I enjoy both Free! and Titans, neither are favorite series of mine. Probably the series I like the best this season (Eccentric Family) isn't going to sell well but I still take whatever small victory I can get.
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Last edited by Kirarakim; 2013-09-17 at 18:43.
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Old 2013-09-17, 19:10   Link #1345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
True, lately have been going pretty series with pretty boys groups, which are aimed primarily at a female audience.

Curious fact, it seems that Free is also popular among male fans in Japan (although I suppose that female fans are the majority).
Did the Japanese fans have as much of a fit as the Western/American fans did when Free was announced?

Anyway, glad to see Free do so well. Like I said, if it brings more female eccentric series, so be it, as long as they're done well.
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Old 2013-09-17, 20:15   Link #1346
Konja7
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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
Did the Japanese fans have as much of a fit as the Western/American fans did when Free was announced?

Anyway, glad to see Free do so well. Like I said, if it brings more female eccentric series, so be it, as long as they're done well.
Well, it seems that male fans (of Kyoani) in Japan were distrustful and attacked Free when it was announced, but it seems that most complaints quickly stopped (once the anime began) and many have enjoyed Free.

Last edited by Konja7; 2013-09-17 at 20:25.
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Old 2013-09-17, 20:19   Link #1347
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Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
Well, it seems that male fans (of Kyoani) in Japan were distrustful and attacked Free when it was announced, but it seems that most complaints quickly stopped (once the anime began) and many have enjoyed Free.
ah. That's good.

I really am surprised at how much I've enjoyed Free...and not just because of the bishonen cast either. It's a lot more entertaining than I thought it would be. And I don't normally like sport anime.
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Old 2013-09-17, 20:40   Link #1348
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I was sure it would do well, and what do you know, it did. With sales like these Kyoani is bound to follow it up with other shows aimed at women.

Anyway, it was about time for more anime catering to a female audience. If it comes with pretty boys attached all the better.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That being said, if shows aimed strictly at fujoshis don't exceed, say, 20 to 25% of what's out there on a per season basis, I don't see a problem with it. That's certainly not to say that I want 75 to 80% of anime to be ecchi, harem, and generic female fanservice shows - I'd prefer to see that kept down to a quarter or less as well. Its shows that aim for more than simple pandering of any sort that I usually like the best, shows like Madoka Magica, Psycho-Pass, Fate/Zero, Usagi Drop, and Shin Sekai Yori.
Don't equate women with fujoshi. Fujoshi like shows with a lot of male-on-male subtext. In practice this means that fujoshi tend to be equally interested in things like Free, and say, shounen shows with a large, buff male cast like Bleach, Shingeki no Kyojin, Jojo etc. Most fujoshi would likely be uninterested in the otome shows like Brothers Conflict, Amnesia and Diabolik Lovers that have been cropping up recently, because while there are pretty boys there they are all focused on the female heroine. Also, the only shows "aimed strictly at fujoshis" are the yaoi shows, which Free isn't.

Last edited by Parchevich; 2013-09-17 at 20:58.
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Old 2013-09-17, 20:53   Link #1349
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Old 2013-09-17, 23:05   Link #1350
cheshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I also think it shows that it is worth to put effort into female productions that goes beyond good seiyuu. Lets face it series aimed at women rarely get the Kyoani production Treatment.
Agreed. But I do hope they don't just marginalized towards fujoshi alone. More female empowerment shows please (and K-on doesn't count Kyo-Ani!) which is still severely lacking for me.
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Old 2013-09-18, 01:24   Link #1351
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If I may add in my two cents on "Free!", I will admit that I was originally put off by the concept due to comments made by those who were either clamouring for a new FMP season, or by those who were simply against the idea of a mostly-male cast. That said, I decided to give the show a try out of boredom (the occasional fan art I saw of Gou did help), and marathon'd the first seven episodes in pretty much one go.

As you can tell from my location under my profile pic, I'm from Australia, and over here in Australia, we make a big deal out of two things: sports (Australian Rules football, two types of rugby, and cricket, with soccer having a growing presence), and mateship. The latter goes beyond friendship - some of your mates may not be friends, but you can at least count on them to help you out in one way or another, like a rival being a motivation for you to lift your game, or even making sure that you're alright.

As for sports, well, due to the nature of rugby and Aussie Rules (best described as rugby turning into legalised aerobatic murder), you need to work out if you want to even survive a game, and what better way is there to support you during training than having a couple of mates around to spot (support in regards to free weights) you and joke around with to keep your mind off things while resting or pressing heavy weights? The interactions going on within the Iwatobi Swim Club aren't that much different from what I see at my local gym, with high school kids helping each other out in preparations for the footy season, and with salarymen hitting the treadmills side by side talking about how work's going. It just so happens that we tend to be more boisterous here than in Japan.

Ultimately, that's what I see "Free!" as - a story of sports and mateship between three friends, a former friend turned rival, the rival's sister, and the newcomer, and as an Australian, that's what appeals to me the most about the show.
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Old 2013-09-18, 02:14   Link #1352
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Actually mainstream anime doesn't tend to sell that well. The manga sells well but not necessarily the anime, so Titans success actually is a big surprise in my opinion.
Fullmetal Alchemist and its friends would like to have a word with you... AoT got an anime because the manga was so popular, and it was made to be a successful show. The only reason it doesn't air in a better time slot is because it's too gory for that. From what I can see it gets a lot of publicity, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchevich View Post
Don't equate women with fujoshi. Fujoshi like shows with a lot of male-on-male subtext. In practice this means that fujoshi tend to be equally interested in things like Free, and say, shounen shows with a large, buff male cast like Bleach, Shingeki no Kyojin, Jojo etc. Most fujoshi would likely be uninterested in the otome shows like Brothers Conflict, Amnesia and Diabolik Lovers that have been cropping up recently, because while there are pretty boys there they are all focused on the female heroine.
You'd think that, but otome game shows have their own BL-fan following, UtaPri in particular has a huge one with all sorts of events dedicated to various pairings and whatnot. Thing is, "fujoshi" are not a monolithic group, it's just a word that refers to girls/women with a very diverse taste. Just because one likes m/m doesn't mean one can't also like m/f or even f/f. (Also, may I just mention here that "fujoshi" is still a derogative word?)

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Also, the only shows "aimed strictly at fujoshis" are the yaoi shows
Nope. Not at all.
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Old 2013-09-18, 03:17   Link #1353
Parchevich
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
You'd think that, but otome game shows have their own BL-fan following, UtaPri in particular has a huge one with all sorts of events dedicated to various pairings and whatnot. Thing is, "fujoshi" are not a monolithic group, it's just a word that refers to girls/women with a very diverse taste. Just because one likes m/m doesn't mean one can't also like m/f or even f/f. (Also, may I just mention here that "fujoshi" is still a derogative word?)


Nope. Not at all.
Fair enough. I still don't think that "shows aimed at fujoshi" and "shows aimed at women" are the same thing, which is how the guy I replied to seemed to be using them.

I've seen BL fans self-describe themselves as "fujoshi", so I thought it was tongue-in-cheek, and not derogative. But I'm going to switch to using "BL fans", since "rotten girl" does sound like an insult from an outsider.

Really? Could you give me some examples of such shows? Stuff like Free doesn't count to me, since everything stays in the realm of plausible deniability and even women who hate BL can enjoy them for the beefcake. So it's really just aimed at women, and not "strictly at fujoshis".
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Old 2013-09-18, 05:36   Link #1354
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Fullmetal Alchemist and its friends would like to have a word with you... AoT got an anime because the manga was so popular, and it was made to be a successful show. The only reason it doesn't air in a better time slot is because it's too gory for that. From what I can see it gets a lot of publicity,
But again this is the exception not the rule. And it was becoming less of a rule since the original Fullmetal Alchemist came out, about 10 years ago.

Brotherhood sold well but not as well as the original and not as well as the manga.
There are other popular manga that anime doesn't do Titans sales either.

But I am getting off topic so I apologize. And I am happy at the success of Free! just to show the buying power of women. Now if only some Josei anime can sell like that.
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Old 2013-09-18, 07:03   Link #1355
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... I kinda want to know what happened to Iwatobi-chan...
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Old 2013-09-18, 07:25   Link #1356
Konja7
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
You'd think that, but otome game shows have their own BL-fan following, UtaPri in particular has a huge one with all sorts of events dedicated to various pairings and whatnot. Thing is, "fujoshi" are not a monolithic group, it's just a word that refers to girls/women with a very diverse taste. Just because one likes m/m doesn't mean one can't also like m/f or even f/f. (Also, may I just mention here that "fujoshi" is still a derogative word?)


Nope. Not at all.

Well, to be fair, Utapri is not entirely focused on Haruka. Do not get me wrong, she is the center, but also the guys interact with each other (not just as love rivals).

Actually, the anime that is exclusively aimed at "BL fans" is yaoi or shonen ai. "Free" and similar animes try to attract them? Of course, but also tries to attract a different audience (women don't like BL and even men).
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Old 2013-09-18, 09:26   Link #1357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
Well, to be fair, Utapri is not entirely focused on Haruka. Do not get me wrong, she is the center, but also the guys interact with each other (not just as love rivals).

Actually, the anime that is exclusively aimed at "BL fans" is yaoi or shonen ai. "Free" and similar animes try to attract them? Of course, but also tries to attract a different audience (women don't like BL and even men).
Actually pretty much any show with two hot guys can and will attract BL fans. Honestly they can say one line to each other, which pretty much equates to I hate you, and BL fans will make a pairing of them. So yes even shows based on otome games will attract BL fans. And as Kuromitsu brought out we're not a monolithic group. "Fujoshi" just happen to be female fans who also like m/m pairings, that doesn't mean we only like BL and that we need a show to have subtext . I'm more than capable of making my own crack pairings when I want to.
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Old 2013-09-18, 11:51   Link #1358
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Old 2013-09-18, 12:16   Link #1359
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
But again this is the exception not the rule. And it was becoming less of a rule since the original Fullmetal Alchemist came out, about 10 years ago.

Brotherhood sold well but not as well as the original and not as well as the manga.
There are other popular manga that anime doesn't do Titans sales either.
Conan, One Piece... Perhaps our definition of "mainstream" is different? As for FMA:Brotherhood, it's not surprising it didn't sell as much, it was, for all intents and purposes, a reheating of the original project* with the purpose of milking the FMA cow a little more. (*I know it was based on the manga.)

But yes, in any case I kind of hope that Free's success won't be a one-time wonder, although I'm not holding my breath. Free has an exceptionally appealing formula.

Quote:
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Fair enough. I still don't think that "shows aimed at fujoshi" and "shows aimed at women" are the same thing, which is how the guy I replied to seemed to be using them.
Oh, I completely agree with that, I just wanted to point out that people have very diverse tastes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parchevich View Post
I've seen BL fans self-describe themselves as "fujoshi", so I thought it was tongue-in-cheek, and not derogative. But I'm going to switch to using "BL fans", since "rotten girl" does sound like an insult from an outsider.
I've never seen anyone refer to themselves as "fujoshi" in a not sarcastic and self-depreciative manner... It doesn't as much "sound" like an insult as it is, in fact, an insult, and it's used as such most of the time in its places of origin. I know that not everyone means it in an insulting way around here, it just bothers me to see people throw it around as if it was an innocuous word.
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Old 2013-09-18, 13:08   Link #1360
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I always thought that the term "fujoshi" was no more loaded than "otaku" (i.e. it's all about the tone and context of its use).

But perhaps I was wrong there, and if so, my apologies for using the term. I'll try to go with "BL fans" or "yaoi fans" in the future.
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